When we described the Obama-Reid-Pelosi healthcare monstrosity a couple of months ago as the Bill That Wouldn’t Die, we didn’t mean that literally. We were exaggerating, as you may have surmised, and we fully expected the legislation to smother quickly under the weight of its largely unread 2,000 pages. What convinced us that the legislation could not possibly pass was a lengthy and well-argued Wall Street Journal editorial that labeled it “The Worst Bill Ever”. The Journal proved its case as far as we were concerned, and we thought it would carry some weight with millions of readers and Washington politicians.
How wrong we were. Not only is the bill alive and kicking, but now House Majority Leader Pelosi reportedly is confident that she can deliver enough votes to get it passed. She pledged the other day to do so even if it threatens the political careers of some Democrats. For sure, these guys are serious. But the damn-the torpedoes attitude is perplexing, given that the torpedoes are very real; for in fact, voters are actively hostile toward the bill and the likelihood that they will retaliate against the Democrats in November is high. It is not just some Fox-network pipe dream that the elections will bring a quick and merciful end to the Democrats’ strong-arm control of Congress.
Pelosi’s Vote Count
We are also mystified about how Pelosi will deliver the votes. She had only three votes to spare the first time around, and it seems likely that the controversy since will have caused at least a few more House Democrats to abandon their support. Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid aim to get around a filibuster by using the reconciliation process, but the negatives of this strategy have been so well documented that even the public is beginning to understand the behind-the-scenes maneuvering and the ways in which reconciliation would circumvent, if not to say subvert, the will of the people.
For his part, Mr. Obama, a man obsessed, has stopped even trying to sound conciliatory. In the view of conservative and independent voters, the President, Pelosi and Harry Reid have ventured out on a 10th-story ledge. Would it be impolitic for us to egg them on?
(If you’d like to have Rick’s Picks commentary delivered free each day to your e-mail box, click here.)
{ 35 comments }
The Obama health care package has been a complete failure along with his presidency thus far. How do I come to this? He has a 45% approval rating at the same time more than 90% of Americans want some sort of health care reform. We need health reform that will do the job (i.e. tort reform ect). Obama blew it big time when he tried to bring in socialized medicine. We had a perfect opportunity to actually pass something that could make the future better but he just couldn’t step down from his radical ideas and reach across to the republicans and come up with something that everyone could agree on. The dude just doesn’t get it… the american people as a whole do not want more big government. Vindication will come quickly. His presidency will go down in history as worse than the last three. IMO.
Wow. Worst than the last three is pretty bad!
When will this poor country of ours catch a break?
It’s been downhill since LBJ, with a little retracement under Reagan.
Damn it!
Intrade has 0Care passage by the end of June at 55%…
http://data.intrade.com/graphing/jsp/closingPricesForm.jsp?tradeURL=https://www.intrade.com&contractId=709242
Hey Keith, watch Foxaganda much? You realize of course that the average FauxNews viewer has an IQ at least 10 points lower than liberals (recent study confirms that conservatives, and religious folks have lower IQs than liberals, and atheists http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm). Explains a lot actually.
Obama’s problem is that he is trying to be too bipartisan. He needs to do what people elected him to do – bring real change, and actually lead. Take on the insurance companies, take on the banks, and take on the military industrial complex. Be the populist. Make the people who caused the mess (raped the system) pay.
As for that hated socialized medicine, you must be talking about Medicare, you know that program the Teabaggers are yelling not to touch (“Keep your socialist hands off my Medicare”) and is beloved my most seniors. Go ahead, recommend ending Medicare and see how fast you get elected.
Ohh.. the tone of some comments makes debate meaningless.
Some people develop abject dislike for a personality for reasons other than objectivity and they keep bashing the personality. Mr. Obama is human for sure and much of what US is experiencing is not his contribution. Whether he succeeds in extricating the country from current woes would decide his second term. Till then give him a chance.
If Presidents act for popular rating, they would perish for sure.
I’m no fan of the democrat’s healthbill, but where do people get off saying that the republicans are some white knight in all this? They say “Of course, everyone knows we have to do something about healthcare”, but what did they do in the time they had the Congress and Whitehouse? What did we get from them? Terry Schiavo?? Billy Tauzin’s doughnut hole before running off to be big pharma’s lobbyist?? All they can do is bitch and moan when it is not their own political necks out there initiating anything – what for the other party to start something and then whine about it to try and score points from Mr and Mrs Too-Stupid-To-Remember-We-Did-Nothing. What crap.
The Democrates political reign is going to be shorter than” that one pope who got poisoned ”
Please Americans, stick a stake into the heart of these looney baby boomers who have plagued us since the Sixties with their “progressive notions” and flat earth contrivances. Water, as it turns out, doesn’t flow uphill, except in times of heavy credit issuance. Banish them to the dust bin of ideological irrelevance so that we can get on with the task of fixing all the crap they broke.
My brother who is a blue state progressive was quite shocked when I pointed out that the Sixties counterculture was now the establishment tyrants and the “tea baggers” so eloquently disparaged by the established MSM are now the radical revolutionaries. My, how the worm turns.
It’s cod liver oil…It’s good for you…Why?…Because I said so.
Exactly the point. Fighting just keeps the sheeple’s eye’s off the ball. I work in a cardiology office and I had some lady going off on Obama. She said, and I quote “I don’t want socialism. I want everyone to put the same amount in and then get the same out.” I am not making this up. My jaw dropped. So many hyperopinionated people who have such a small grasp on what they’re talking about. I said it before Rick and I’ll say it again. I’ll know your serious about fixing the problem when you start really pushing for a third party.
The banking systems was socialized, why not medicine? Socialized medicine worked well in Hawaii for the past 40 years. Why can’t they replicate that for the other 49 states? Why start from scratch?
Dusty
I have never understood how and why the democrats have always been so obsessed with the health care issue – unless it’s only about control and growing government.
Yes, HC reform is needed, but there are so many more issues that are more important and more pressing than ruining the best health care system in the world. Yet every election and even now, that’s all they talk about. .. yet it’s at the bottom of the list in every poll.
“[...] and we fully expected the legislation to smother quickly under the weight of its largely unread 2,000 pages. ”
Now that’s _THE_ point, Rick. How many read blogs by actual doctors? Even many of them say you need a lawyer to read through it to have a chance of understanding it. And they say republicans are the party of no. Well, just wait til something like this becomes a reality. Then we’ll see who’s really saying no.
Not that the current system works. I never said it did. What we have here is just another mountain waiting to be added to the already existing mountain of legislation.
So I’ll just come out and say it. Sling tomatoes if you must, folks. I can take it (if you can find and afford them, that is. There’s a tomato shortage. Better throw something else, then).
We don’t _need_ health insurance.
The things that have most benefited peoples’ health have nothing at all to do with what doctors can do for you. What science and engineering have done in the last century has been nothing short of a miracle. Adundant food supply, immunizations (that demonstrate a herd immunity benefit; flu shots do not count, for most), labor saving devices, indoor climate control, clean water, adequate clothing, reduced family sizes, more living space… The list goes on and on, and the effects have been so subtle yet so powerful.
Lives were saved and lifespans extended, without anyone stepping foot inside a doctor’s office. It was all done without an over-sized army of [bleeping] nurses and pharmcists and health insurance policies. We’re the ongoing benefactors of this ongoing miracle. But along came a spider… Let’s say there were people who just didn’t like the fact that “too many” were no longer in need of the services offered by the cheiftan and shaman class. People were solving their own problems through industry and science instead.
Start some wars, which they did. Then heart attacks and cancer went up to scare everyone. It’s been well known that such troubling times is what causes heart disease rates to escalate. Not just for the troops, but all the people who had their lives displaced and their livelihoods destroyed. And when you think about all the things released into the air and water through the bombing of industrial cities… it’s not hard to put two and two together and figure where the cancer bubble came from.
For all that destruction and disruption, though, they only made a small, temporary dent in the progress of mankind. The rise of the big ones has long since peaked, and have since come down and continue to lower. It has done so for the simple reason that those who had to endure that destruction have died off over the years, and science and industry still allowed to do what it does best. But they attributed that to healthcare insurance and the army of medical professionals that have resulted. Even that facade has failed, and people continue to live longer, healthier lives. So they come up with ways to scare people into thinking they’re going to need massive amounts of medical intervention. I can’t even begin to list the many ways in which they do so.
So we don’t need health insurance. It’s a just huge burden on capital, capital that could be far better employed to build, sustain, and advance those things that truly make an impact on human health, lifespan, and personal liberty and happiness.
And yet… and yet!…. I fully realize that this all sounds contradictory to the point I orignally made. If they were just trying to get us to waste our money and time combating boogiemen, then why would the new legislation be the real party of no?
The ironies of this world will never cease to amaze me. If they can pull this off, then healthcare insurance itself is dead. Which just happens to be what we need, and have needed over the years. Whether they realize this or not is irrelevent. Healthcare insurance was going to die anyway. Not that there aren’t people who become seriously ill. It’s just that for the most part, most people don’t need it. There are other, better ways to help those who really need it. But we pay for something that we mostly don’t need, something that mostly doesn’t even help, and that something strains capital that cannot afford to be strained. In my estimation (though I’m pretty sure I’m not qualified to say for certain), for roughly every 10 people insured, there’s one person who cannot be employed because of it. 10%. Where have we heard that number before. The official numbers for unemployment are 10%. The other roughly 10% are underemployed, wanting better.
Now, I’m not saying vote this way or that. It’s all irrelevent. There’s a tug of war going on that is far greater than any one person, which is why everyone is angry.
Humans hate it when the invisible hand works it’s “magic” over their will. And so it is the invisible hand that is deciding that healthcare insurance is the thing that must go. It mostly goes unused, and the distorted signals it sends has caused an entire bloated industry to spring up around it. At the same time, real progress in truly effective areas is lagging. We can very easily lose some or all of the real, cheap benefits. That’s why you can’t throw a tomato at me if you wanted to.
So it’s heads we win, tails we win. Some good news, for a change.
Sorry for the O/T comment but this is worthy of remark…
Martin Snell said: “You realize of course that the average FauxNews viewer has an IQ at least 10 points lower than liberals (recent study confirms that conservatives, and religious folks have lower IQs than liberals, and atheists ”
http://www.ctmu.org/
An excerpt from a book written by one Christopher Michael Langan, IQ reportedly around 200 (198, iirc). Now, I’m not saying “ha! in your face, you godless, brainwashed liberal!”, nor speaking for Mr. Langan’s beliefs or lack thereof. But when someone that smart seems to support teleology, it’s hard for me to accept that the higher IQs are exclusively atheist. Liberal? I’m pretty sure I don’t know. Nor do I care, really. People across all spectrums have all sorts of ideas, and as far as studies go that prove superiority… pffft… studies…
It seems that all these people with High IQ’s are the people orchestrating these financial thefts of Biblical proportions (Goldman Sachs).
Those wanting smaller government and the ending of the Fed like Reagan, JFK, and Andrew Jackson were praised not for their IQ’s but by knowing the difference between right and wrong.
I assume Martin Snell thinks Obama has a high IQ? This genius Obama has been assuring the American people that this Gov’t run health care will be good for us.. or at least that’s what it says on his two teleprompters.
Dusty and Benjamin hit the key point perfectly…the health care system is another system of insurance to suck the system dry of our hard-earned money…One of the reasons many foreigners live in Asia, including many with chronic health problems is exactly because here in Asia (china, thailand, etc) you don’t need or have “health insurance” because health care is reasonable to the point of dirt cheap. Having any of various chronic conditions becomes an excellent reason to reside here.
I’m here for ten years, I get therapeutic sessions for my cervical injury at any hospital in China including traction, massage, cupping and acupuncture for USD $7 per session! Need an x-ray?…$6… Cipro or Zithromax?…$5…hernia surgery at a GOOD hospital with an experienced doctor?…$1500 USD private room included… CT-scan?…$40 MRI?…$100 …blood workup?…$15 4 visit root canal or tooth veneer…$75…
Incredible, Hawaii already has good public health care and nobody thinks to just copy that in each state? Good grief…
Cheers, Mario
Of course you have to be willing to tolerate lower quality conditions and be careful about that, be educated…the older hospitals don’t have the pristine conditions we want, but you use your common sense and go to doctors and service on personal referral from friends. Over 10 years, I have SAVED well over $60,000 USD HARD CASH. I’m responsible for my health AND the cash in my pocket.
As big PHARMA writes the bill, the BANKSTERS are laughing
By now any thinking person should realize that Obamacare is not about improving our health care system. It’s ALL about government control. Nothing more, nothing less.
MartinS, I assume you were not included in that study, else the results might have been quite different.
Realizing that the progressive movement is populated with all the Mensa members, I will try to offer up a couple of thoughts from my wee tea-bag brain:
1) How does it make sense to increase social spending on healthcare with no effort on controlling the definition of a US citizen? I realize that our healthcare system is broken and that ER is now used as a basic medical treatment for people that illegally overstay their vacations here with no insurance, but shouldn’t you fix the immigration problem first? Something. If we don’t have control of whom is here and then we sweeten the pot isn’t that problem just going to get worse? The inane “W” comment of “just doing jobs Americans won’t do” doesn’t really explain things anymore with unemployment where it is.
2) Tort reform.
2.5) Repeal the drug bill and permanently sever the pharma/ big govt/ screw the taxpayer relationship. (somehow the semiconductor industry never had this benefit, spends a gazillion dollars on research, struggles to maintain profitability, and then delivers better and better products for less and less money, yet no “IC bill” protecting price and guaranteeing customers……hmmmmm)
3) I heard some Congressman waxing about the great success of Medicare the other day. Of course, he was simply looking at it from a standpoint that the govt issues cards and people go to the doctor. Success? Wow, with that logic there are about 10,000 dotcom companies that were financial failures that should still be around. Medicare, when using proper accounting and realistic actuarial data (I know, 5 syllables is a lot for a moron teabag-like brain) has a net present liability of $75 Trillion. The corrupt drug bill, ALL under “W”, was just an $8T unfunded liability 2 years ago, and is now $18T. It has eclipsed Social Security!! And yet, ignoring these total failures, the progressives think more of this will yield success…..The teabaggers and their ilk have plenty to point to about government failure to deliver sustainable solutions. Only an ivory tower genius can somehow imagine that if you have driven off the cliff that flooring it will will then fix your predicament. The only benefit to “flooring it” is that it will allow us to reach bottom sooner.
We are doomed. Clowns to the left, jokers to the right. Literally.
I will try to avoid the name calling and simply address the issue of why I am opposed to socialized medicine. You are quite correct that Medicare is socialized medicine and no, I’m not a fan of Medicare. The problems of medicare will not be soved by expanding it to the rest of society they will be made worse. Why would you expect anything else?
Let’s skip past all the complexity of medical care and use a simple anology. Let’s say that we want to have socialized food. After all, you can make a much better case for food than for healthcare. A person might go without healthcare for decades and suffer no ill effects. However a person can’t go without food for more than a few hours without suffering from hunger; and in a few months he will be dead. So let’s say that food is a “right” and that the state is going to protect that right by giving everyone a national food card. Then if it should ever happen that you get hungry, you just go to a grocery store or a restaurant and get food. You simply present the card and you receive the food. You don’t have to pay anything; the food is provided for free, as it it your “right” to get it. What would happen with such a program?
Well at first we would all be eating steak and lobster. Why not? It’s free, and I happen to prefer lobster. Of course the cost of the program would skyrocket beyond all projections and the government would decided that we can’t afford the cost overruns and that we need to put some controls in place. Then we would all be eating rice and beans.
And that is exactly what you will get with socialized medicine; rice and beans healthcare. That is what every country that goes down that road ends up with. It’s not just predictable; it’s inevitable. Why do you think that Canadians come here when they are really sick.
I foresee great investment opportunities in health care clinics in Latin America if this program passes.
Do we want to ration by price or ration by lining up?
It would be nice if the medical establishment sought cures for something instead of turning everything into a chronic condition that requires lifelong “meds”.
Diabeties is a good example of something that a proper diet and some exercise could probably reverse. Instead, Medicare pays for electric carts for 300 pound patients to drive around Walmart buying junk food.
Socialized medicine:
I would never claim medical care is a “right”. It is NOT.
However a system where society as a whole decides to share costs for something that can easily be a “lifetime savings blowout event” makes sense.
Without health insurance each individual/family would have to decide how much to put away for possible medical care. That would mean most of us trying to save for the possible huge medical bill. If you get hit in year 1 with a $500,000 bill for your child…game over. Individual savings against a “major event” don’t make much sense.
So let’s look at insurance. But first think about the nature of medical care. Most people have no desire to rack up medical bills (I hate going to a doctor). It is not like buying clothes or food or vacations. Health care is a “good” that people are not actively going to be out there trying to consume (there are always exceptions but in general, no way). The one exception may be near the end of life – where a big portion of medical costs come from. But do we really want to get into deciding for someone when they should die?
The problem with for profit health care is that 30% of the cost goes to arguing over what is covered and negotiating with providers over costs. None of the 30% does anything to improve care! It is all about arguing about who pays how much. 30% is just insane, but that is what you get when the cost of each x-ray, or pill or whatever is negotiable.
The major benefit to “socialized medicine” in my mind is economic efficiency. With a central system employers can focus on their companies (not their health care costs), employees are more flexible as they can change jobs (or start a new business) without having to worry about changing health insurance plans, and prices are negotiated on a wider basis than each x-ray and each pill.
Socialized medicine is not “free” by any stretch of the imagination, but, it is a cost effective, economically efficient, and humane system. The US system has proved that for the entire population its care is inferior (based on life expectancies) and costs more (more than 60% more than similar socialized systems).
Personally I am astounded that the right has not pushed the “a single payer” itself. It is far better for companies, all the right to lifers should be on board, and costs would be lower for the economy. Any capitalist knows that a monopoly is the most profitable system.
[As for that hated socialized medicine, you must be talking about Medicare, you know that program the Teabaggers are yelling not to touch (”Keep your socialist hands off my Medicare”) and is beloved my most seniors]
Sorry, I don’t remember saying that implementing medicare in the first place was a good idea. But, if I was a senior I would want my medicare too… why? Because I paid into it, out of every check and I had no say otherwise. I guess it makes me a bad person to expect to get the benefits that have been promised. Shame on me!
Lets forget the last 8 years. Lets pretend the Republicans had an austerity program. Lets pretend they didn’t give away 10 trillion to the wealthiest and trillions starting a war based on a supposition.
Did you know just how unpopular Social Secutity was? Ask 100 people what they think of that program today and you will get a unanimous vote.
Why do we need it now? For one thing the insurance costs are going thru the roof.
More importantly if we do get another great depression how many people will rely on government health programs?
Do something now or wait till the outcry for public assistance becomes deafening.
The president says there is no need to have more discussion on health care because everything has already been said. Well, okay, but then why doesn’t he know the practical free market recently extolled in the WSJ? Too arrogant to read the paper because it just could be that it’s not quite liberal enough for his taste? Simple things like allowing people to buy insurance outside of their state of residence will open up more competition and lower prices. More competition! This is why a cup of coffee does not cost $5 (or at least some cups). Why is this a difficult notion? It’s obvious, but no one seems to like obvious ideas because they aren’t grandiose enough for their out-sized egos.
Wow! Government control? For what? Saving Americans from the most expensive health care system on the planet??
You guys are getting completely screwed by the private system, as far as I’m concerned.
Your health care is too expensive.
Ditto your post-secondary education.
But your booze and cigarettes and toxic fast food restaurants are cheap, cheap, cheap.
Go figure.
High IQ does not means being wise – look at history.
Mankind is not really smart…..more like stupid.
Greenspan.. a pretty smart guy, but stupid. Created one of world’s greatest bubbles that is causing great deal of grief to the world economies and people today. He was not alone and this….it is being continued by the past and current adminstration.
Just look at those that who have high IQs , those ruining …oops running the country; these “smart” high IQ guys take it from the others, enriching themselves. They do pretty good job….. duping the people; “smart” they are, but they do not add value, not productive, not good for the economy, country or you or me.
Don’t worry. If O-care goes through, the budget deficits will soon blow the currency into a million pieces. End of program.
If the bill is passed, what are the odds that it will be nullified by the 30 or so states that are currently in various stages of passing legislation or even state constitutional amendments that would prevent their citizens from being required to accept health insurance. Without mandated health insurance the whole thing unwinds.
The states have exerted their 10th Amendment rights in the recent pass, although Pelosi types said at the time that they couldn’t, resulting in nullification of Federal laws regarding RealID and marijuana. The status of health care nullification can be found here: http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/nullification/health-care/
Rick=late comment. Apologies if repetitious. When the House passed its health care bill last year, Pelosi had over 240 aye votes with all the Dems counted. During the time remaining for voting, more than 20 of those votes changed to “NO”– indubitably with Nancy’s foreknowledge and permission. The switchers, I assume, were new Dems with precarious seats–first or second termers– who then could tell the “folks” they voted against the monstrosity, after they had voted for it to assure passage. If they repeat this sham, the Senate’s bill can pass. As many here have observed, both parties’ leaders are corrupt and should be discarded. Easy to say, very hard to do. They became leaders by surviving several decades because their seats were SAFE. Thus, a only a successful primary election challenger can replace them and, unfortunately for the district’s residents, with the sacrifice of their seniority. Neither party welcomes challengers; they prefer that the incumbent resign,like Dodd, who was the underdog in a statewide race.
Rain Man had a high IQ
Martin Snell 03.05.10 at 7:44 pm
If socialized coverage makes more sense than personal burden, then why is the EU on the verge of a breakdown over Greece? Vice versa, why are we on the verge without socialized burden?
There is no other answer other than that neither work. As I pointed out, it’s coverage for the worried well at all that makes it impossible. It’s one thing to insure a peice of property against fire, but quite another to insure a human being’s health. It’s a massive malinvestment to do so for the latter. That we continue to allow this is one of the most evily selfish thing I’ve ever seen humans do. Fortunately, it’s self-defeating. Or defeated. Who isn’t broke?
About the only place that comes close to rational is places like China, as Mario Cavolo so well pointed out. And boy does he invite a number of good points when talking about clean, modern medical facilities, and not just for the obvious reasons. All a story for another time, though it’s not unrelated.
The point here is that without all this investment in _coverage_ here in the west, however provided, personal savings and charity would be able to keep up. The costs of medical care would reduce, as would the general cost of living, as all the malinvested captial would be forced to invest more properly. So those truly in need of medical attention, be they rich or poor, would far better be able to get it.
Mr. Martin Snell,
It would seem that it is the intellectuals that got us into this crisis.
So, where was Mr. O , Mr. Zero and the democrats when medicare was formed and would they enlarge government into healthcare now?
The democrats like to say they didn’t create this mess.
Well then just where were they? As if they weren’t around and had nothing to do with it? Accepting that brain washing excuse does not show much real intelligence where it counts, and that is what should really scare us.
Whether you are for it or against this health care bill, two questions should be on your mind:
1. Why this?
2. Why now?
My opinion: A vast majority of voters are against the bill, yet it is placed at the forefront likely because the narcissists in charge can accomplish nothing else. Their self-importance and self-promotion are paramount.
Comments on this entry are closed.