So, are we now supposed to believe that every Toyota that runs off the road, or plows into another car, or leaps a concrete berm in a Safeway parking lot, is a runaway? The latest report of a Toyota wilding spree – supposedly caused by a faulty Prius gas pedal — surfaced the other day in California. The driver said the car reached 94 mph, although we’d never have imagined the tortoise-shaped vehicle was capable of exceeding the speed limit, even on steep downhill stretches. Another Prius crashed into a stone wall in New York, but we’re awaiting the accident report before we blame Japanese engineers. The automaker said it was going to look into both incidents, as well as some others, and we hope they do. The investigation would not come a moment too soon, since every Toyota driver who gets stopped for speeding these days could tell the cop that his car, apparently possessed by demons, had simply willed itself to violate the law.
Toyota’s competitors must be breathing a sigh of relief. BMW, for one, has engineered such unnecessary complexity into the car’s driver controls that one practically needs an engineering degree to activate the heater/defroster. If BMW’s throttle linkage were to experience a congenital problem with sticking, determining the cause would be like trying to trace the source of an intermittent humming sound in a NASA space shuttle. A hundred guys with stethoscopes would probably drive themselves crazy after a few weeks of fruitless listening, tapping, plinking and toggling.
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The Bimmer Myth
Full disclosure: I’ve been driving Japanese cars myself for the last 35 years, having lost my fondness for BMWs while a charter member of the BMW Car Club of America. (Old-timers may recall that BMW drivers used to flash their headlights at each other back in th Sixties.) As far as I’m concerned, the Germans would still be building horribly unreliable, overpriced cars if the Japanese hadn’t showed them how to do it right. Before I came to that revelation, the relatively rare model 2000 that I owned and maintained had racked up parts bills equal to half the car’s original cost in just a few years. The delicate, exorbitantly priced, three-part O.E.M. exhaust system, for example, was good for about 25,000 miles, and the rubber sleeves that shielded some crucial suspension bearings cracked and dried out at around 8000 miles. An engine rebuild begat a collapsed piston ring that turned the car into a smoker. But the final straw was a six-month wait for a “gooseneck” thermostat to replace one that had gone bad. To make things worse, it was connected to a 7/8-inch heater hose that was 1/8 of an inch wider than anything available in American auto-part shops at the time. (I had to improvise with a section of washing-machine hose.) I finally gave away the car to a friend of German birth who lived in Bellingham, Washington. He sent a one-legged, ex-Luftwaffe pilot to San Francisco to pick it up – I am not making this up, honest – and it was good riddance. To speed his long journey home, I threw in a box of spare parts including an alternator, some radiator hoses, a fan belt, spark plugs, fuses, a head gasket and voltage regulator.
The Honda Accord that I bought to replace the Bimmer was the best car I ever owned – at least, until the time I bought a Lexus eight years ago. It’s got 130,000 miles on it and still runs like the proverbial top. And that’s why it makes the hair on my neck bristle when I see Toyota executives called on the Congressional carpet to face an inquisition on quality control. It’s mass hysteria, as far as I’m concerned. Toyota has engineered some of the safest and most reliable cars on the road. You never seen one stranded on a highway, and I’ve yet to see one whiz by me, out of control, at 90+ mph. For every paranoid Prius owner eager to dump this supposed killer car for half its Blue Book value, there are probably at least a dozen buyers just as eager to take if off his hands.
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{ 26 comments }
No, they’re haunted by Gremlins.
A regular Milton Berle here. RA
For the latest possessed Prius… how come no one ever seems to think to turn the car off? Instead they grab their cell phone…
But cars are not ONLY about reliability.
If reliability were king, no one would be using Windows of any version or an MS product.
One can’t disregard it of course, but there is more there.
What about design? What truly innovative desing has ever come from Japan, that wasn’t a rip-off from somewhere else?
All the first Lexus’s were just DB clones, and when they realized that BMW was doing better than DB, the went Bimmer. Proof? Just look at the Hofmeister curve on the current Lexus.
Another “icon”? The MX-5, the total Lotus copy.
And how many of the sports cars from Japan just copied Ferry Porsche’s work?
True there are exceptions, many times, though, one finds a Giugiaro or some such hand in teh mix.
Japanese car desing is by and large boring, forgettable plain jane soccer mom stuff.
Or just butt ugly. Nissun Cube? Your picture above alone is a statement.
And just recently, they started copying the R8.
What about engineering? Typical japanese improvement engineering. Good stuff that, no doubt, but where are the innovations? Sure you can find some, but in aggregate it doesn’t come from there.
My A6, a 1999, has 220k on it, without any major issues to date. That is as anecdotal as anything else, but its there.
Price, sure its high, often too high, but compared to local prices over there German cars are cheap. Blame that on the unions in Europe. How they actually make any money here on imports is a mystery.
And the atrocious VW problems of a decade ago, were at least in part due to Mexican assembly, and a former GM-guy Spaniard, Lopez.
IN HS, my best friend tooled around a ‘72 2002 that was 15+ years old and had 145k on it, first engine. Boulder winters did that in, but then most cars, including japs were rusters back then.
Having said that, this unseemly Toyota bashing (a brand, and a country’s brands I will never drive, ask for American at rentals too) is so blatantly unfair and as much a hogwash as the Audi sudden accelereation thing that CBS created with SOB stories (only to much later admit it was BS.)
It killed Audi for almost a decade, after having put out two successful and nnovative cars, the mid 80’s 100 which put it on the map, and the first Quattro.
Those 25 year old Audi 100s still look acceptable. Put them against just about anything from the time, from Camrys, Accords, Cadillacs, Fords, BMW 5s etc, and the Audi looks a generation younger.
Its amazing how some stupid driver finds the time to call 911 and yammer away, rather than yanking the tranny into neutral, or better down-shifting to use engine braking, and APPLYING the brakes.
The claim is not BRAKE failure in these cases, just stuck accelerators.
NO car on the road has an engine MORE powerful in acceration power than a the brakc systems DECELERATION power. The brakes are usually 2x as strong, and WILL stop a car with both brakes and gas pedal to the metal.
So, Toyota must be a victim of the current owners of GM using their regulatory power to kill of the main competitor, that though BORING, sells stuff people actually want (never figured out why )
Cheers
“The driver said the car reached 94 mph, although we’d never have imagined the tortoise-shaped vehicle was capable of exceeding the speed limit, even on steep downhill stretches.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBht8zWkd5o&feature=related
Whoa! Where’s the rainforest fire, dude?!
Semi-seriously, though, I’m surprised Toyota came up with the lame, floor mat excuse. I mean, if the claims are bunk, then why did they say anything at all? And how about State Farm warning Toyota about an uptick in sudden accleration claims, as early as 2003? Then there’s the Sikes incident…
Now, it’s entirely possible that Sikes paniced even before the car allegedly took off, by stupidly mashing down on the gas pedal. Most drivers are too stupid to know the cause and effect relationship. Or maybe he set his cruise control and made a bogus call. But IF the story he and the assisting officer gave is true, then he did in fact try to put in neutral, to no avail. He was also instructed to turn off the car at least three times before it was brought under control.
I’ll refrain from making a judgement, but it’s not looking good. That said…
8.5 million cars?!
If you ask me, the recall is being used as a repo man, a hidden way of delcaring bankruptcy. Were people really going to be able to pay for their new cash-for-clunkers? Probably not. Best to throw away anything Toyota made in the last… oh, say, the last decade. That oughtta do it. Hey, it was good enough for the “clunkers” that weren’t paid for, right? Sure it was! So by golly, it’s good enough for the earth-savers, too!
I’m a Prius owner and last Saturday, placed an order for the new one. We have had no problems with our car and believe it’s all political posturing by the US government which has a secret agenda to damage Toyota and Japanese industry (possibly because the Japanese government wants the Americans off Okinawa).
Foot jamming the brake pedal to the floor, emergency brake fully engaged, still can’t stop it. Wa dee do, drop a Hemi in it?
I like the speeding angle. When you see the flashing lights you floor it.
PRS: The main reasons not to kill the engine if a runaway occurs is that action is likely to also kill your power brakes and might also lock your steering. Better to put the transmission in neutal.
Rick, I fully agree that the Toyota issue has become a media driven hysteria. We bought our first Toyota in 1986 and have had at least one in the family ever since. There are currently three in our driveway ranging from 1986 to 2008. Other than routine replacement of oil, timing belts and mufflers, during this entire time I would bet our repair costs haven’t been over a couple thousand dollars. I also like my Chevy Silverado which I use for heavy towing and hauling but for routine driving I would not be without my Toyota.
I just got rid of my 4th and last Mercedes-I bought it new for my son in 2007-At low speed he spun out in snow-the front left hire hit the curb and air bags deployed-it was at nite-there was no visible damage to the wheel area or any part of the body-the next morning I drove it 18 miles to the dealer–on the way there was no sound at all coming from the wheel area-the car did not pull left or right-while driving or while stopping…total repair bill=$22,000-cost of car=$47,000-they claim they put a new front end-I suspect fraud—never again! I bought 2 hondas-an Odyssey and a CRV-both with leather–my son is thrilled with his CRV and the Odyssey is the best car I;ve ever owned-Rick, u are right-German cars are waaaaaay over engineered.
The latest Prius owner supposedly did try to turn it off.
BMW motorcycle owners still wave at each other – and all other motorcycle riders. BMW motorcycles are getting horridly gizmo’ed but the ones I own are pretty decent, and the older ones back into the 70s are relative paragons of reliability. So I would agree somewhat on the Japanese showing us all how, but how much of it is the Japanese and how much of it is simply advances in mechanical and systems engineering over the last 30-40 years? It is sometimes hard to distinguish between the two.
Great op for media hysterics.
Or those that think Government Motors is behind all this Easter Egg Hunt.
Not only is it simpler to turn the car off than make a cell call putting police at risk, just heard the 911 call and the driver of the 94 mph Prius (must have been going downhill) refused to put it in neutral, which the 911 Operator suggested. Right up there with Lindsay Lohan suing E Trade for the milkaholic Lindsay Baby ad.
Methinks the media may be desperate for real news.
Meanwhile, we had 313% Calls to Puts on the ISE Equity Sentiment Index twice yesterday and already this AM, usually a sign of tops…
…mindless irrational hysteria indeed…I can’t understand why anyone would need to make a phone call to figure out how to push really really hard on the brakes, put their car in neutral and shut off the engine…its nonsense…and the one I recently read about the Hyundai doorlocks too….just ridiculous…things about American overreacting mentality which causes them to grab on to the most inane stuff and make a big deal out of it at everyone elses expense…Cheers, Mario
I manage residential property in Berkeley, California. While reading this article it suddenly hit me, the same paranoid people who get hysterical about lead, asbestos, mold, global warming, etc are the same people who drive this car….
Poor Toyota, it was only a matter of time before the true believers turned on the company……..
My experience is similar to Rick’s. I have owned six BMW’s starting with a 72 2002 purchased used in 1974 and ending with a 88 735I purchased new in 1988. Between those were a 77 530I; 80 533I; 84 530I and 84 733I, all purchased new. My experience with these cars was that overall, the performance was good but the reliability was poor and the maintenance costs high. Toyota introduced their new Lexus line in 1990 with the flagship LS400. I purchased one new in Boston in late 1999. I drove this car for ten years without a single problem. This was a ground up new car design and it was flawless. I presently drive a Lexus 2000 LX470 and a 1999 GS300. Both of these were purchased new and have also operated flawlessly over the past ten years.
I’m suprised at a so-called auto technician saying it’s simple to stop unintended acceleration by “just sticking it in neutral” – that’s like a computer tech telling a poor Windows user faced with the “blue screen of death” – “Easy, just click exit” – key fact is there is no exit button, there is no shifting, there are no brakes – your computer has lost its mind and all bets are off. At least with Windows you can power down and re-boot – no such method on Toyota’s all controlling computer.
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As others have pointed out, it’s easy enough to power down a car by simply turning off the ignition. The brakes will still have plenty of stopping power. For some reason, the imbeciles who are getting in trouble are making a cell-phone call their first priority. RA
Find it interesting that most blame the owners. I also find it amusing that all those loyal Toyota owners are still buying them. The recent sales figures bear this out.
To blame this on hype or hysteria indicates why people stick to a story even when proved incorrect. The human mind is an interesting place to pioneer. We decide on a truth and if that truth is proven false we still find ways to maintain our hard-wired opinion.
Toyota, according to consumer reports, has been downgrading their reliability for years, while maintaining Hondas. Toyota has a company philosophy of ever expanded innovation while Honda sticks to a slow tried and true approach. Toyotas approach has resulted in a greater reward but with a greater risk.
So lets not find excuses why Toyota hired ex safety officials to placate any recalls, blamed the floor mat, and claim the problem is easily fixable.
To all those owners out there; are you really comfortable riding with family members? Are you playing the odds that it could never happen to you? For myself I don’t get trapped in loyalty issues. There are so many competitive cars out there that and it makes no sense to buy a new car without knowing the extent of the problem.
I have owned my share of foreign cars. Just about every brand of Japanese cars, except for a Honda. They were all fine. They did wear out and they did break but as far as cars go, they were fine. Although, the last Japanese car I owned put a rod through the block just cruising down the freeway. So, they do break.
Now I drive American. A 2006 Pontiac I bought new and now has over 68,000 miles. Every knob works, nothing has ever broken. I have had to replace the front brake pads, gas and oil. It is the nicest car I have ever owned. Japanese, German or otherwise.
They say the dumbest guy in town is the guy driving down to pick up his check at the unemployment office in his new Toyota and wondering why there are no good jobs left in America.
It’s simple. Econ 101. Where they manufacture the goods is where the job are. And that doesn’t mean just “assembling” them at some plant in Tennessee.
Pres. Obama says our manufacturing base took 20 years to deteriorate to where it is today and will likely take 20 years to recover. Great, now we know how long this little “downturn” is going to last… Joe
Rick- Sorry to hear about your bad Bimmer experience. I’ve owned a ‘71 2002 for going on 13 years and an ‘88 325iX for 6 years. Repair cost are a little pricey because I can’t wrench them myself (other than routine and basic maintenance). But the enjoyment factor of driving well built and engineered and handling cars makes up for that in spades. I know plenty of folks driving similar vintage 3-Series BMWs and they will reliably do 200-300k and up if looked after. I’d much rather spend $30k (if I were in the market and it needed it) on the ‘88, make it “new” again, and drive it for another 20 years than spend it on a new car…just doing my part for the enivronment by recycle and reuse.
As to your post, yes lets get to the bottom of this “ailment” as it is just another symptom of the “not my fault” culture we live in…
both of these differing statistics came out of msm financial pages today…driving me NUTS…
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EBTPKO0&show_article=1
http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/10/news/economy/state_unemployment/index.htm
I had a 1999 Lexus GS 300 ten years ago. I had three accidents in which I hit my brakes and my car continued to lurch foward. I always thought maybe it was just the Anti lock brakes kicking in, and it was I who did something wrong. After hearing about all that is going on, I’m thinking it was the car, and maybe a larger Toyota problem that existed for years. I never had this problem with any other car I’ve ever driven.
Toyota already apologized for cutting corners and not properly responding to customer complaints. Who are you Rick, to second guess both Toyota and the people who experienced deadly problems with their cars? I guess you just know better.
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For one, Ben, I am an editorialist. And for two, you seem to have missed the tongue-in-cheek flavor of this particular editorial. RA
As Monty Python would say “I know my place”
‘Calling Tokyo….come in please….’
‘Tokyo here, good morning Washington’.
‘What the devil do you think you’re doing down there in Okinawa’.
‘Our people exercised their democratic right to vote which you gave them’.
‘We didn’t give you democracy so you could elect anybody you like, that’s not our candidate, he can’t win, we can’t have any lefty pinko commie telling us what to do, get down there and sort it out fast or we’ll…..we’ll…. stop buying your Toyotas, yep, that’s it, no Toyotas and Nissan’ll be next. Bloody voters, who do they think they are.”
‘But….the Constitution…’.
“F… your parliament and your constitution. America is an elephant. Japan is a flea. If this flea continues itching the elephant, it may just get whacked good …We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Japanese, If your Prime Minister gives me talk about democracy, parliament and constitution, he, his parliament and his constitution may not last long…”
(Slightly updated quote by President Lyndon Johnson, to Greek Ambassador Alexander Matsas – June, 1964)
“You are either for us or against us…….”
Now I’m terrified of cars……. Tomorrow I think I’ll ride my bicycle to work. I hope the brakes aren’t defective!
Keith,
Hope you don’t have restless-leg syndrome–could be disastrous.
Hey ! 1994 Dodge Cummins 439,000 and still going strong.(no computer) More power than one can imagine in a pickup @439,000 miles – 600 + ft pounds of torque, replaced 1 clutch friction, 1 set of brushes in the alternator, 1 u-joint in driveline, upper/lower ball joints and 4×4 u-joints, 1 sealed front wheel bearing assembly, two sets of brakes, 20 mpg at 7500 pounds.
Know you all are talking about Honda, but; couldn’t help myself.
Is Honda using the disconnected electronic system where there is no actual linkage ?
I’m sure Toyota will get through all the mess, it will take some time. I’ve owned a 92 Camry and I was very happy with it, never broke down on me. I’ve also owned a few GM cars from the 80s and let me tell you that’s when these cars started to use fuel injection and I broke down all the time due to electronic issues, that no-one seemed to understand at the time
The American Auto manufactures screwed themselves in the 80’s and 90s when they made junk that broke down. I still see Japanese cars on the road from the early 90’s I hardly see any Chev Luminas around from the early 90’s. I have to admit some Japanese cars don’t handle the Canadian winters up here to well they are rust buckets, and the motor will outlast the body.
Why don’t people shift their cars into neutral? All of these cars sound like they had automatic transmissions. The dumb drivers did not understand the PURPOSE OF THE BIG N and using the brakes?
If your car uses a throttle cable and it’s stuck you can also lift up the gas peddle with your toe – as per this article on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_throttle_control
cheers
Michael Fumento had a good analysis of this in the LA Times on the ninth:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-fumento9-2010mar09,0,3126393.story
My 1995 Honda Accord has 205,000 on the clock and it has a lot of miles left in it. Six years old, it cost more than all the other cars and trucks I’d ever owned, put together. And it was worth it. I should be looking for 2004 in the next few years, just in case. Toyota’s quality was measurably better than Honda, but they both are head and shoulders above anything made in North American or Europe.
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I traded my 1969 BMW for a Honda Accord when, one night in 1979, it failed to pull Russian Hill and I had to ask my passengers to disembark. With Honda’s zero maintenance costs and perfect gearing for San Francisco, it were as though I’d gone to heaven. I drive a Lexus SUV now, and I’ll take my chances as far as the alleged rollover problem is concerned. RA
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