September 19th, 2014
Published Daily

The Political Revolution Will Not Be Televised

by Rick Ackerman on October 28, 2011 8:32 am GMT · 74 comments

[The Occupy Wall Street movement may not know it yet, but Ron Paul is their candidate. You would never guess this is so from the mainstream media's aloof, retrograde reportage of the campaign season. In the essay below, my wife, Marilyn, explains why the TV networks and the New York Times are missing a grassroots groundswell that will be seen as a Political Revolution by the time the 2012 rolls around. If this proves to be so, look for a shot across the bow when disaffected young people switch their affiliation to Republican so that they can get Rep. Paul nominated. RA]

No one questions that “something” is brewing, or rather simmering beneath the surface in America. The discontent, having finally reached the heretofore silently and sublimely disaffected youth who are occupying Wall Street and any other street in any other town you might mention, is a phenomenon that has every journalist and blogger on the planet analyzing their heads off.  Is the OWS movement the left’s Tea Party? Will progressive politicians regret throwing in with the legions of urban campers? Do these people have a platform? Who is supporting  them? (Well, we actually know that Soros and the unions are doing that, because  they’ve pretty much told us)

These are the questions everyone is pondering, and yet the most obvious issue – one that hasn’t been much written about —  is how, and, much more importantly, where will this whole revolution-in-the-making play out? Don’t bother reading the New York Times or tuning in to the nightly news, or even punching up talk radio on your way to work. By the time any of them  is onto the latest “breaking story,” the social networkers have already tossed it into the rerun heap, having dissected it to death in the preceding three days. This revolution is happening online, and the average American doesn’t see it. Yeah, we know Obama was elected by “the connected.” But, that was an “early adopter” phenomenon, like the kids on American Bandstand who “voted” for this week’s best dance tune because it had a good beat and catchy lyrics. Obama’s “youth” revolution was merely a well-timed call-to-arms – a call to people who were just then learning how to answer. They liked the hope-y, change-y message because it had a good beat and catchy lyrics.

What is happening now? Well, for one,  we have had two grassroots developments in the last two years, wherein people came together to fight “the man.”  Sure, in the instance of the

Party it was a very well-defined MAN, and what was being attributed to said man was a level of spend-thriftiness that a portion of the American populace was no longer willing to tolerate. What can be said of the latest incarnation of American fed-up-ness, the Occupy Whatever brigade? Well, they are mad, too. However, they are slightly less informed and mostly less organized than their Tea-bagging brethren.  They just want rich people to turn over their riches to them – pay their student loans, pay their mortgages, pay to rebuild their roads and bridges, bring their teachers back to the classroom and their  firefighters back to…the fire?

Evening News Is Stale

I know this because I was fighting a bad case of the flu for about ten days earlier this month. Bedridden,  I kept abreast of the news of OWS,  Greece and the gathering Eurostorm, and other topics of the hour. In every case, the news that I imbibed didn’t even make it to TV for about three days. Seriously. All the YouTube diatribes by hopped up anti-Semites in NY, all the police brutality accusations, all the protests moving to the homes of B of A’s top brass — all of it made it to the evening news…three days after-the- fact. Doesn’t the mainstream media have “online” specialists – people who are supposed to be right on “the pulse” of the young, the hip, the at-the-ramparts people who are…making the news? Apparently not. The TV networks just trudged along, well after the fact, to weigh in on something that had lost most of its relevance in the intervening days.

What does this mean? At a basic level it means just what it illustrates: that mainstream media people are completely  out of touch with the electorate. By the time ABC News reports that there might be evidence of anti-Semitism at Occupy Wall Street, the YouTube video of a clearly hopped-up young “protestor” yelling “Jew!” over and over and over again at an elderly man in a yarmulke – a man who evidently erred in thinking he could have a conversation or debate with his young co-protestor — had already made the rounds of every social networking site and was already a tiresome “rerun” put out by people who check their wall once a week and share everything with their 100 friends, who share with their 100 friends. You get the picture.

Those “in the know” online have more influence on how this movement is developing than do the countless liberal sycophants like Michael Moore, or over-the-hill actresses like Susan Sarandon – or even OWS financier George Soros or perpetual foot-in-mouth VP Joe Biden. If you don’t believe me, look at how the protestors’  signs are mutating from “Pay my Loans” and “We are the 99%” to a more reasonable “End the Fed” and “Obama is bought by Wall Street too.” How did this happen? Easy, people who watch the videos online and see how desperately ill-educated the “protestors” are, go down there and try to knock some sense into these people. One person who is particularly adept at it is Adam Kokesh, the former Marine and Libertarian bellwether for countless Young-ish, recently converted Austrian economics students, who,  in countless self-produced interviews with protestors, is able, usually in 8-10 minutes, to completely annihilate the faulty reasoning of his “Capitalism is evil!”-spouting victims. About a third of the time he gets them “thinking.” The other two-thirds simply get too frustrated at being made the dupe over and over again and simply storm off, with or without a snarky comment about Kokesh himself.

Backed by Soros

Kokesh has appeared on Judge Andrew Napolitano’s show on Fox News. He has a huge following on the internet. But he’s just one of many people who have ventured to Occupy Wherevers around the country to try to get people to see that the problem isn’t capitalism, the GOP, the banks (in isolation) or greedy rich people. The problem is The Government — just as the Tea Party said it was two years ago, before they came up with a plan to get the bums out and replace them with nominally-more-tolerable bums. The OWS-ers, and their comrades in cities around the country (I don’t much care about Occupy Belgrade or Occupy Melbourne, to be honest), started this whole exercise with nothing more than time on their hands and a desire to live through something resembling the exciting sit-ins, stand-ins, sleep-ins and various other sex- and drug-fueled “ins” that their parents were so lucky to attend. They got their free food, their free signs, Wi-Fi access and, in some instances $600/week from the Soros-backed or union-backed goons trying to run the show and dictate the terms of the “debate” – as it is.

The people who are getting through to the hordes, people who at least say that they have gotten others to listen to reason, seem to have similar experiences with the protestors’ modus operandi: “These people just seem to like force.” “They just, I don’t know, they just think that the answer to everything is more government control; just more government in general.” “ Maybe it’s because they learned in school that only the government ‘protects’ us – maybe that is why they believe that government is the only solution.”

Winter Is Coming

How much they get through, and to how many, remains to be seen. With winter coming, the movement may well have to move indoors. Rumor has it that they (Soros and the unions) have secured the first floor of…gasp! – a bank building to house their electronics station when inclemency sets in. But, the longer they stay, the more likely someone will confront them with a solid and reasonable message – maybe just that they ought to be occupying the White House and Congress, for starters. Even now, the signs indicate that is already happening.  Do they sense any irony in the fact that Obama’s cabinet is packed with people who, prior to coming on board with him, occupied offices in the very buildings standing above their encampments?  One thing they do know:  The interview they are doing right now will go viral by sundown. It will be picked and shredded like a Boston Butt days before Bill O’Reilly or Rush or Anderson or Rachel even get a whiff of it.

How will this play out in November of 2012? The election could prove to be the most interesting fallout from the seismic shift in American political discussion, from mainstream media to social media: namely, that what we are seeing on debates, in the recaps and in the seemingly endless parade of panel discussions about Perry’s N-word rock, Romney’s cult membership, Cain’s pizza-price tax plan or Gingrich’s grinching, is all but irrelevant when we ponder the question of  what is actually about to happen. The presidential election will be decided by this social media crowd, and those who get their news from television and the New York Times will be the last to realize this.

Crossing Over to Nominate Paul

With the primaries coming, how will we know that this tectonic change is indeed happening  if we don’t read about it in the Times? The first indicator will be the number of people who  in just the past few months have changed their party affiliation from “X” to Republican just so they can make a difference in who the GOP runs against Obama. Who are they going to vote for:  Ron Paul. Yes, the old man with the charming drawl and the dorky shoes has gained a level of online popularity that I haven’t seen since Tay Zonday’s “Chocolate Rain” sensation on YouTube a few years ago.

Ron Paul has touched a nerve in the collective psyche of the young for very simple reasons:  He’s been right about practically everything AND he doesn’t take money from PACs – not a penny. Add to that a 30-year track record of principled ideology; a pro-life stand that is grounded unassailably in his experience as a physician; support from active military personnel that is unrivaled; and the ability to raise $2 million in just two days from college kids at $25 per, and you start to see the idea. The young are hungry… no, desperate for a leader who isn’t like the moral-relativist teachers they’ve had for 16 years. They know what integrity looks like, even though it’s been politically-corrected out of their lives. They like simple honesty. They’ll pay for it; they’ll vote for it.  All while the news media blather on about Romney’s cult and Perry’s rock.

***

(If you’d like to have Rick’s Picks commentary delivered free each day to your e-mail box, click here.)

Take the Hidden Pivot course at your leisure, in recorded one-hour segments. The real-time Wednesday Tutorial sessions, the HP Tutorial video library and a confirmed seat at the next live Hidden Pivot webinar on October 16, 2014 come as part of the package.



{ 74 comments }

MB October 28, 2011 at 11:32 am

Well, I am not optimistic about this (or anything for that matter).
“However, they are slightly less informed and mostly less organized than their Tea-bagging brethren. They just want rich people to turn over their riches to them – pay their student loans, pay their mortgages, pay to rebuild their roads and bridges, bring their teachers back to the classroom and their firefighters back to…the fire?”
This is exactly the reason why OWS will not be for RP. RP stands for personal responsibility, take care of yourself and your family, etc. I am not counting on the OWS’ers taking a 180° turn in this direction although I agree that they are fighting the wrong enemy.
Just my two cents
MB

Richard November 10, 2011 at 6:20 am

A revolution implies a 360° movement. In other words, you end up back where you started. History really does repeat itself. So you are spot on, it will not be a 180° change. OWS are more people looking for free lunch. Everybody wants free lunch. Where was occupy pentagon during the last 12 years while the govt has been killing more than a million people in various wars? People only care when they are affected personally. The only differences between the average ows protester and a banker is energy, ambition and smarts. Everybody wants to see more output than input.

Mario cavolo October 28, 2011 at 12:01 pm

Thanks Marilyn for a wonderfully lucid essay on this set of current affairs across the globe!

I don’t share the hope set forth in the last paragraph as I don’t believe any such forcesmor desires or well-intentioned interests will even make a dent in the stronghold elitist fortress that has been achieved by the cabal now in economic and political control.

In regard to the issue of whether such political and economic control can be wrested from the controlling powers, the significant difference between Chinese and American society is that the Chinese don’t bother with the illusion some Americans have that they can actually do anything about it. As many others have expressed here on the forum, the transformation of control across the political and economic landscape in America is complete along with all of its related issues and implications. A scary state of affairs with Americans wasting their precious time and energy actually believing they have any ‘freedom’ to do something about it. It’s a false freedom, a delusion, like telling someone. “Hey we just erected a six foot thick concrete wall but yes you’re free as an American to go right ahead and tear it down because that’s your right but oh by the way the law clearly states that any activity known as tearing down is limited to your use of spoons and butter knives and you can apply for your permit right over here., etc.” sorry to sound cynical but I’m not, it’s just the reality…

Cheers, Mario

Mark Uzick October 28, 2011 at 2:27 pm

There’s no reason to blame the evil elite and the power mongering politicos for ensnaring what was once America in a vicious cycle of incremental tyranny and empire.

Civil government, like any business or enterprise, must cater to market demand or be put out of business by competitors that will give people what they want or think they want, no matter how harmful, evil or obscene the demands may be.

While evil cabals really do exist, it’s the people, not the cabals, that control the nation’s fate. It’s the current elite’s profession to market their poison of protectionism, arbitrary regulation and the scapegoating of businessmen, aliens and foreign lands; and it’s the libertarian’s job to market liberty, but it is the people who will choose what they want.

Citing Constitutional law and traditions in a vacuum of understanding won’t preserve anything in the long run; when the people make themselves heard at the voting booth, whether for good or bad, the elite will stumble over themselves in a mad rush to give them what they want.

Robert October 28, 2011 at 6:23 pm

Mario- a fairly clear presentation of reality, I’d say.

There is something fundmentally wrong with the concept that “You have freedom, but only on the terms that we lay out for you”… isn’t there?

Robert October 28, 2011 at 6:35 pm

“when the people make themselves heard at the voting booth, whether for good or bad, the elite will stumble over themselves in a mad rush to give them what they want.”

The political machine’s clear and unambigous purpose is to indoctrinate people into a system where the primary objective is to promise the people everything they want, and then to deliver none of it.

I think Marilyn’s article does a bang up job of demonstrating that the young, not quite fully educated, OWS crowd is out there demanding from the political system the exact types of things that the political system ALWAYS promises, and NEVER delivers…

The underlying meme is simple- politics (like organized religion) is nothing more than a form of shared psychosis.

A group comes together and forms a vision of reality that contradicts what their own 5 senses (6 if you count logic and common sense) tell their brain is true and real; and instead they willingly CHOOSE to ignore these elements of fact, and instead they supplant them with the dogma of their coordinated group-think.

Well, ignoring reality and substituting your own alternative, and losing the ability to distinguish between the two, is the textbook definition of diagnosable psychosis.

Steve October 29, 2011 at 12:13 am

I’m betting on Mr. President James Madison, Federalist Paper #46, in my summary “Democracy is a tyranny run by despots leading to violent destruction”. OWS is just the beginning of the self-destruction that will come from within democracy, not from the search for Liberty.

ben October 28, 2011 at 1:52 pm

I don’t see the great appeal of Ron Paul. He may be mostly correct in his assessment of the current state of affairs…but then when you move on to what should be done about it, he’s the most misguided of the whole field by a factor of 100. Without going into a 10 page dissertation on the subject, just look at RP’s comments about our natonal debt. He wants to send out all of America’s gold to China and our other creditors because that is the “responsible” thing to do. Yeah right. Responsible to who? Certainly if he carried out such an act such an act he would show no responsibilty to America. Our creditors gave us worthless paper when they gave loans to our government. And they should get back worthless paper in repayment. Caveat Emptor.

bill October 28, 2011 at 2:37 pm

First…Thank you Marilyn for a lucid sane take on matters in a time of increasing insanity.

Ben… Ron Paul’s intention is to declare all the treasury debt written as collateral against federal reserve notes and other forms of “money” as odious debt and be written off. You may want to do a search on odious debt.

Mark Uzick October 28, 2011 at 2:46 pm

Money (gold) is not the source of wealth; it’s a medium of exchange and a store of value, where the real source of wealth is productivity.

Hoarding money will not make a society rich; if money isn’t used, then it has only theoretical value but no practical value.

Ron Paul understands economics and is one hundred times smarter than any other serious contender. He understands that with economic liberty our unleashed productivity will act as a gold magnet as America will not only produce things for which people will gladly part with their gold, but would become a safe-haven for the investment of their gold.

Robert October 28, 2011 at 6:39 pm

Mark-

Now THAT is a post I wish every person on Earth could come to understand as fully as you, I, and Ron Paul do…

You just laid out the most sound and sane basis of human economics possible.

Brad October 28, 2011 at 7:54 pm

Ron Paul’s statement that we should sell the country’s gold was said to make two points….

(1) the gold price is still too low.
(2) that there might not be any gold in the vaults.

Dale October 28, 2011 at 1:52 pm

“we have had two grassroots developments…”

Actually, OWS is far from a “grassroots” activist movement that we are lead to believe it is. Rather it is a highly organized and well funded organization with direct ties to Obama via the likes of Bill Ayers, George Soros, and Drummond Pike founded upon long standing anti-American radicalism.

Drummond Pike, an original SDS member, is Treasurer of George Soros’ Democracy Alliance and founder of Tides Foundation which funds ACORN and is the largest contributor to Adbusters..

According to the “about us” page at OccupyWallStreet .org, “On 13 Jul 2011, the group Adbusters released this call: Occupy Wall Street! In Solidarity, and as a response to this call, a planning group was formed”. Adbusters also produced a very sexy poster with a ballerina posed atop the Charging Bull statue and riot police in the background.

“While attempting to give the appearance of a “leaderless” movement, Occupy Wall Street is in fact the result of a very calculating and dangerous organization of radicalized anti-Americans who have infected U.S. politics at the highest levels of government – including the White House.” – Ulsterman (The Ulsterman Report) http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/10/27/the-same-people-who-created-barack-obama-have-created-occupy-wall-street/

Mark Uzick October 28, 2011 at 2:59 pm

There’s no doubt that OWS is being used by the powerful to manipulate the inchoate frustrations of youth into a statist version of the Tea Party.

The point of the article was that this youth is also being infiltrated and subverted by libertarians with some degree of success; and that there’s no clear winner yet.

ful_karboy October 28, 2011 at 6:16 pm

Good link! Will forward!

Steve October 28, 2011 at 2:57 pm

Hard to believe almost anything written about OWS as it appears they are a broad spectrum of beliefs, however vague. Being pissed off about being exploited is an understandable, if unfocused feeling, given our political realities. I’m not sure whether OWS will actually impact our elite vs. elite political system. When the gas and clubs start coming out everywhere and the temperature drops below freezing (unlike my/our time in Washington in May, 1970, against the War), it will be a lot harder to stay in place. Cops have become SWAT teams and the media has, as noted, become late and clueless, so we won’t really know what’s happening. The next Revolution will be tweeted but I’m not sure this is it. They may be facing no jobs and $100k loans, we were facing actual death in a far off country. No contest as to which gives more staying power.

PhotoRadarScam October 28, 2011 at 3:02 pm

OWS’s message is muddled and unclear. What exactly do they want?

What they should be demanding, at the very least, is accountability for what’s happened. No one has really gone to jail or is being prosecuted for the big mortgage mess or the bailouts. There is no accountability. There isn’t even a fall guy.

This is what’s wrong with “the system,” and is something that EVERYONE should support regardless of political ideology.

Jess October 28, 2011 at 3:15 pm

spot on Marilyn, many are waking up to the reality that Ron Paul is electable. Perry and Romney are picture perfect for what the newsmedia and banksters want. This may not fade like last election. The laugh Paul was getting last election is becoming more real to them.

james October 28, 2011 at 3:19 pm

more, more from Marilyn!!

fallingman October 28, 2011 at 9:30 pm

Yeah, ditto that.

Thanks for articulating the idea that there’s an appeal Dr. Paul that’s essentially running “underground” among young people especially. I don’t know just how widespread it is, but it’s strong and I wouldn’t underestimate how shocking its public expression might be.

Darren October 28, 2011 at 3:24 pm

I don’t know, here in Philly the Occupy movement seems hopelessly lost somewhere left of Lenin. See:

Occupy Philadelphia: The Kick That the Left Really Needed
http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-philadelphia-kick-that-left.html

Benjamin October 28, 2011 at 3:38 pm

Great commentary, Mrs. Ackerman. Full of good food for thought!

Indeed, the left hand of TPTB are desperate to co-opt and keep the force known as Occupy as their own. Yes, the younger generations are not brainwashed, so much as desperately seeking that principled leader that would totally contradict the programming that has been relentlessly keyed into them. Ron Paul does continue to gain and retain support among the younger generations, on top of an already respectable level of support among our troops. And, finally, there’s some signs of changing focus among the OWS-ers.

I have to disagree with the main prediction you’ve made, though. Given that Obama simply will not win another term, that means whoever gets the GOP nomination is going to be the next president. Competition is only going to get more vicious yet and I am very doubtful that enough OWS-er support will make a timely shift from left/clueless to Ron Paul. Most likely, OWS will divide into two groups: One that wakes up, with the rest still holding a pattern of leftist/clueless demands. This will further hinder Obama’s attempt for re-election, while easing the way for a Herman Cain victory.

But your prediction is still the best grounded one I’ve seen in favor of a Obama vs Paul race. The potential is definitely there. It’s the time constraints that I think will rob us of that outcome, though.

Steve October 29, 2011 at 12:21 am

Ben, you will be sorry if corporate Cain is elected. I think his name is prophetic.

Jacques Redou October 28, 2011 at 4:00 pm

The 60’s Anti-War protests were much more focussed. Mostly a single issue movement – End the War – Now.

Many years of Loud and often Violent protests were covered by a sometimes sympathetic media. You saw live footage on the nightly news.

Even after the War was seen by most people as unwinnable, the politicians and
War Industry pressed on.

But Vietnam DID have Honest anti-communist logic (domino theory) behind the strategy although the Strategy itself was terribly flawed.

My point is that the 60’s Protests had little
effect on the war effort. Nixon stopped it
because it was useless not because people
were in the street.

This OWS picnic is nothing like the 60’s.
No real PRINCIPLES on either side. The
people in Suits looking out the window
at the protesters want Leather Seats in their Lexus. The people in the street want
a guaranteed paycheck. Two sides of the same coin. How do we cut a shrinking pie?

Just as in the Middle East, all sorts of Players will attempt to use Popular Discontent in the streets to their advantage. The MOB in the
street is just another Data Point.

If they become too unruly, too numerous, too well organized, or too effective, the American Politburo will send them home.

davidnrobyn October 28, 2011 at 4:40 pm

Jacques,
I lived through all the Vietnam protests, and from my perspective the protestors were no more principled than today’s left (You know, the rabid anti-war left that is nowhere to be seen now that a Democrat is in the White House?). If I remember correctly, there was a little protest against the war during the Johnson administration, but it didn’t really get started until January 1969. That was when Republican Richard Nixon was sworn into office. All of a sudden, all the students around me were bonkers-crazy-whacko-foaming-at-the-mouth-hysterical antiwar. Was I the only one who noticed? With Johnson in office, it was “Fighting soldiers from the skies ta da da da…” During Nixon’s term, it was “War…huh…what is it good for…absolutely nothing (say it, say it, say it, say it again)…”

VegasBob October 28, 2011 at 5:23 pm

davidnrobyn,
You must have forgotten the demonstrations, admittedly small, that followed LBJ all around the country in 1967 and early 1968. The slogan, wherever LBJ went, was:

Hey, hey, LBJ.
How many kids did you kill today?

Then Eugene McCarthy got 40%+ of the vote in the NH Democratic primary. That’s why LBJ withdrew from the Presidential race in March 1968.

The demonstrations got bigger during 1969-1971 because Tricky Dick Nixon kept expanding the war rather than winding it down, not because Tricky Dick happened to be a Republican.

davidnrobyn October 28, 2011 at 4:28 pm

Marilyn,
GREAT essay. I particularly liked the last paragraph, where you state that the young “know what integrity looks like, even though it’s been politically-corrected out of their lives.” That one should be framed and hung on walls. BTW, it’s really great to read something, either on the web or in print, that has everything spelled right and with no grammatical errors. This experience is becoming increasingly rare. Kudos.

Steve October 29, 2011 at 12:27 am

Marilyn, great job. The rest is insulting political correctness tripe. Not everyone can spell perfectly, and if perfect handwrittttttting and spellllllllllllllllging is the measure of merit, well friends the world is left to the LEFT.

John Jay October 28, 2011 at 5:07 pm

I like Ron Paul a lot.
But he is fighting a tough fight.
He is not going to get the black vote.
He is not going to get the Hispanic vote.
He is not going to get the votes of those on the government dole.
The dole includes everyone from the $60 a month foodstamp person, to the MIC people selling 400 million dollar jet fighters.
In the last election, Obama received 69 million votes to McCain’s 60 million votes. So RP needs to think in terms of tens of millions of votes.
Obama is already buying votes with his student loan debt forgiveness plan. He will pull out all the stops to get back in power, no matter what it does to the National Debt.
Ron Paul needs to get real busy and run a Huey Long type populist campaign. The “Kingfish” knew how to get out the vote. Of course, Huey Long was another politician that was outspoken about getting rid of the Federal Reserve Bank. Another lone gunman shot him dead. And Huey’s bodyguards put 62 holes in that assassin, so no questions for him at the trial either.
I will support Ron Paul, but he needs to raise more money and start getting a populist movement going.

fallingman October 28, 2011 at 9:39 pm

Jeez John, it isn’t as if he isn’t trying. You can peruse my inbox if you wanna see how many appeals I get for clownbucks from the Paul campaign and The Campaign For Liberty. Besides, he’s raised a heckuva lot more than anyone ever thought he could.

And the man is giving everything he has at age 76 despite the fact that he has to know he’s probably just tilting at windmills. It’s hard to get a populist movement going when you don’t have anything you’re giving away, but he’s doing it!

Let’s give him some love.

Steve October 29, 2011 at 12:30 am

I agree fallingman – think POSITIVE and act POSITIVE. All those who say nay will get what they want – NAY!

blueRepublican October 30, 2011 at 7:48 am

JohnJay, you say you will support Ron Paul. How about registering R and going to your local county GOP meeting? Talk to some Rs about economics and make some friends. That will be supporting Ron Paul!

Wyz October 28, 2011 at 5:20 pm

Great article. During the late 60’s and 70’s a popular saying in the youth was “trust no one over 30 except Buckminister Fuller.” Could Ron Paul become the current individual over 30 the youth trust?

ken horn October 28, 2011 at 5:31 pm

Marilyn – well written thesis, but, in my opinion it is well off the mark. you have to accept the fact that the people in control (Soros, SEIU, acorn rejects, etal) are serious anti-capitalists. How do you think the movement was almost instantaneously in many cities in western Europe? no, Ron Paul actually represents the somewhat bizarro-world opposite of OWS. Unfortunately, his isolationist views on Iran & other bad actors around the globe would prove to be quite dangerous. how’s that Obama appeasement going for us? I think that at some point, maybe 2016 or 2020, we will begin to break down the cronyism barriers that have been built up for a long time, but right now I believe that OWS represents more of a threat than a solution.

Steve October 29, 2011 at 12:33 am

Ken, So you think you have a right to inject democracy into foreign lands, and to tell Iran how they should be, yes? No wonder we are always at war. Of course the other issue might me that each president needs an “emergency” to keep the tyranny of the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917-2011 going – check Wiki – don’t believe me – look in the mirror yuu’s the emmany.

Carol October 30, 2011 at 6:41 pm

Come on Steve of course we have the rite to take out any “bad guy” that we can identify, that’s the amerikan way. War war war what is it good fur – the military industrial complex. (spelling errors intentional)

Robert October 28, 2011 at 6:20 pm

Marilyn-

Fantastic commentary.

“the Occupy Whatever brigade? Well, they are mad, too. However, they are slightly less informed and mostly less organized than their Tea-bagging brethren. They just want rich people to turn over their riches to them – pay their student loans, pay their mortgages, pay to rebuild their roads and bridges, bring their teachers back to the classroom and their firefighters back to…the fire?”

- A very edgy statement that might draw some ire, but I fully agree with you.

“I know this because I was fighting a bad case of the flu for about ten days earlier this month. Bedridden, I kept abreast of the news of OWS, Greece and the gathering Eurostorm, and other topics of the hour. In every case, the news that I imbibed didn’t even make it to TV for about three days. Seriously. All the YouTube diatribes by hopped up anti-Semites in NY, all the police brutality accusations, all the protests moving to the homes of B of A’s top brass — all of it made it to the evening news…three days after-the- fact. Doesn’t the mainstream media have “online” specialists – people who are supposed to be right on “the pulse” of the young, the hip, the at-the-ramparts people who are…making the news? Apparently not. The TV networks just trudged along, well after the fact, to weigh in on something that had lost most of its relevance in the intervening days.”

- Again- spot on. The mainstream media is getting steam rolled by the fact that information moves at the speed of light, and what they present (3 days later) has been ground and cycled through the spin machine, rinsed, and sterilized the point that it is hardly even news anymore.

My last point is about Soros- Your commentary, whether intentionally or not, paints an interesting compare/contrast analysis between Soros and Ron Paul.

I agree with you regarding Paul being a man of principle and honesty. Contrast this with Soros who, even though he is funding these activities, is doing so to promote the ORGANIZATION of human thought- the concept you refer to as UNION.

I call it homogenization, sterilization, and psychological preparation to accept authoritative control doctrines- the very type of hierarchical control that union and community organizers and their progressive “talking heads” all relish with zeal- Pure human evil (in my opinion).

Ron Paul does not want your allegiance. He does not want your obedience. He wants you to think about what personal liberty means to you, and to find commonality with others based on your own personal viewpoints.

Personally, I think this makes Ron Paul a Jedi, and George Soros a Sith.

Marilyn October 29, 2011 at 3:27 am

Yes, Ron Paul is a Jedi; George Soros is a Sith. That pretty much sums it up. Thanks, Robert.

Be a Jedi yourself and find younger people to mentor. If we don’t show them the light, who will?

nonplused October 28, 2011 at 6:30 pm

OWS is not going to vote for Ron Paul. He is too old and freedom is not what they are looking for. They are after something much more socialist and compulsory than that, more like the environment they have been indoctrinated into via the public education system, where nobody is allowed to get a better grade than anyone else, the top student in the remedial level gets the same recognition as the top student in the advanced level, and the “citizenship award” is more important than the academic awards. It is a very George Orwell future coming from OWS, and Ron Paul is not their candidate. Naomi Wolf maybe.

Worse, Obama has already bought off the 18-24 group with his new free college loan program. What a great deal, you never have to pay back more than 10% of your “disposable” income and after 20 years the remaining debt is absolved. College just got a lot more popular, and the total debt students will finish with just got a lot higher. And the taxpayer just bought the youth of the nation 6 years of free beer and toga parties. They will be too hung over to occupy anything but the couch. The revolution will be dead as soon as the program is implemented. Brilliant, really.

(different) Steve October 28, 2011 at 6:43 pm

Wow, this author is completely delusional. Ron Paul has SOME interesting ideas, but he blames regulators for the financial collapse and wants Wall Street to police itself. It’d be laughable except he’s being dead serious. And I can assure you that the OWS movement will not go for that.

Politics suck. Because being a politician means you cannot be unbending in your beliefs. Ron Paul is a catch 22 – he’d be a much better candidate if he were more practical. But, if he were more practical, he’d probably not have the cult-like following that he has. In any event, reform like that which Paul envisions would require a heap-load more pain to endure before the whole system is scrapped and rebuilt.

Robert October 28, 2011 at 10:21 pm

“Because being a politician means you cannot be unbending in your beliefs.”

WHOA… say what?

Who’s that guy in the White House again?

Marilyn October 28, 2011 at 7:57 pm

I don’t necessarily believe that OWS is “the” entity that will drive any sort of real revolution. I also know how entrenched we are in a corrupt system that self-perpetuates, despite the every-four-year charade that gives people “hope” for “change.”

My point here had more to do with my perception that there is a wide gulf between what is really going on, and what the MSM (or the GOP stratagists) “thinks” is really going on. The fact of RP’s fund-raising successes (once again completely ignored by ……everyone) from tiny, individual donations, is evidence of something. What? I don’t pretend to know.

I happen to agree with Paul on Iran, and don’t see it as so much isolationist as wise (Rick and I, needless to say, do not see eye-to-eye on this). I think the frenzy afoot to find some reason, ANY reason, to go to war with Iran is foolish and potentially disastrous, especially at a time when our 12-member “super” committee will default on its promises and gut defense.

The young are always misguidedly-idealistic, and susceptible to indoctrination by passionate “fairness” promoters. The one thing the Tea Party has done, simply by showing up and speaking up, is to turn a half-century of one-sided, govt.-enforced fairness, equality, diversity..(fill in your favorite sity/lity) and turn it into a dialogue. Liberals weren’t prepared for that, having presumed the moral high ground in the intervening decades, hence the belabored “racism” diatribes that have consumed us for two years.

But, now, conservatives and libertarians and religious people and others cowed into silence are talking – and some of what they are saying is making sense to young people. Partly because Mr. Not-Bush-bama hasn’t lived up to, well to any of his promises, and partly because they are finding out HE took money from Wall Street too! OMG. Really? Hard to find the racist core in that fact.

A little knowledge is dangerous. And, for the first time in their lives, some of these people are being fed facts.

Robert October 28, 2011 at 10:26 pm

Go, Lady, Go….. :)

I place the Tea Party (and Matt Taibbi at Rolling Stone, and Adam Kokesh as you mention) one notch higher than the OWS crowd on the pillar of ethics exclusively due to the fact that they are seeking fairness over politics.

blueRepublican October 30, 2011 at 7:51 am

Marilyn, are you going to the caucus in Colorado on Feb 7? This is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS for supporting Ron Paul. You must be registered R in the next few weeks to be eligible for Colorado caucus on Feb 7.

Thank you!

Marilyn October 30, 2011 at 9:31 pm

@ bluerepublican – Of course I am going and of course I have changed my affiliation from Libertarian to GOP. And, I have been strong-arming everyone I know to do the same. Again, I am a believer in supporting the young, who have passion and energy. I have written here before on the campus org. Young Americans for Liberty (YAL), and I encourage everyone who cares what happens to the country to contact the YAL chapter at the nearest campus and be sure that they are doing the same: encouraging every member to affiliate with the GOP for the primaries. What they do after that is up to them.

Adam October 28, 2011 at 8:30 pm

I was witness to the “can’t happen candidate” that is Jesse Ventura as MN gov back in the 90s…the young populace embraced him and was the deciding factor in his win.

Mainstream media “out of touch???” C’mon Rick!!! It does not report timely (if at all) on truly important matters because the networks are owned by the oligarchs that puppeteer what they want us to see/hear. Even subjects that are reported on always have their spin. Don’t beat around the bush with the obvious!

Terry S October 28, 2011 at 8:39 pm

Well done, Marilyn! Few among us foresee this ground swell for what is may well become… despite the ‘riff raft’ participants that it may attract. I’m thinking of UC Berkeley circa 1963 thru Kent State 1970 (4 dead in Ohio).
Sandwiched in between; the end of Kennedy’s Camelot, civil rights & MLK, Woodstock (?), etc., etc. You didn’t need to experience those time to know about ‘em; although, Marilyn, I think you did.
The parallels are simply to numerous to ignore. And what evolved from those “anti-war” hippie-driven years? Ahhh, where to begin… .

Mercury October 28, 2011 at 11:10 pm

Enjoyed this discussion. I have nothing to add. But, I want to say Robert’s “group psychosis” post consolidated my scattered & disorganized thoughts and observations about Americans deluded about their freedom, as well as the religious. Thank you

gary leibowitz October 28, 2011 at 11:16 pm

Squabble over the reasons for the disjointed outcry and demonstrations all you want. I would rather get to facts that are indisputable and let you decide if it has anything to do with this situation. For the past 30 years wages for the middle class has been flat, dead lined. For the top 5 percent wages (wealth) ran up 300 percent. In the last year or so wages actually declined 10 percent for that misbegotten middle class. The disparity between rich and poor the highest ever recorded. A one trillion per year tax cut to the very same top 5 percent.

I suppose we can run around and try to figure out what the easiest scape goat is, but the facts about the wealthiest among us surely has something to do with the problem. Cause and effect. We can argue about how to “fix” the problem and where it all went wrong but I would rather concentrate on preventing such money and power divide to continue to widen.

A government by its nature is neither evil nor prone to corruption. Complacency during good times allows greed to fester without any repercussions. It’s only when the source for free money (unlimited credit) dries up and people start hurting do we point fingers.

Have you noticed that a crisis develops when the imbalance of power and money are at its greatest. Could we have had the housing debacle during any other period in time? Absolutely not.

So trying to fix the problem without reining in the source, is like trying to figure out a physical regimen to get healthy while you drink alcohol.

Perhaps the real reason the “movement” isn’t being followed is because there is no uniting cause, no one banner to rally around. No one figure head to place blame on. The news media now focuses on revenue growth as opposed to what is news worthy. Reality TV and News are now synonymous, just ask Murdoch.

fallingman October 29, 2011 at 1:08 am

“A government by its nature is neither evil nor prone to corruption.”

Hahahaha. That’s a good one. They’re your friends and there here to help you, right Gare? We just wish they hadn’t fallen in with the wrong crowd. Is that it?

Here’s what George Washington had to say on the subject. “Government is not reason. Is it not eloquence. It is force.”

That makes it so “prone to corruption” that you’d be hard pressed to find one area of the government that isn’t a cesspool of corruption. Why? Because it’s the vehicle by which the powerful few are able to rule the clueless many. And using force against peaceful people is wrong, is it not, regardless of whether you carry an official title and have the sanction of the mob behind you or not? You might even call it evil.

Is it wrong to use force against peaceful people or not? Yes or no? That’s not a rhetorical question. It’s one I’d like all statists to answer and to try to justify their yes answers. If it’s not okay, then why are there laws that prevent me from taking money from you, threatening you, or assaulting you, but the state can do all these things?

Jacques Redou October 28, 2011 at 11:45 pm

Huey Long and Jack Kennedy both tried to
break the FED’s rice bowl. Money printing and Fractional Reserve Banking are
the source of guaranteed wealth for the
Marxists. All other groups Mongrelized and
Marginalized with Marxists at the top.

Ron Paul better watch out. If he gains any
significant following he will be in serious danger.

M SMITH October 29, 2011 at 11:19 pm

J Redou, you have it right. The dumbing down of Americans was planned & carry out by the progressives of both parties. Our school system went from a place of learning to a place where lies was taught as the truth. I could go on & on how ‘The Dumbing Down Of Americans’, the book can be bought on line & the title is the same as above. Also it was authored by a Teacher who saw what was happening to our schools, I guess that’s why she named it Dumbing Down of Americans.

J.Redou, I want to pass on a link to very important information you will never find on the front page of the MSM. Before I list the link, you need to know the full history of this mans work & the people that requested his help. http://armstrongeconomics.com/martin-armstong/

As Americans, we all have stake in what happens in Europe & the rest of the world. It is explained in detail like no one else has dared to do because he is known world wide by the most powerfulrichesthist people in the world & if you read his bio you know why is has not dead already. He last writing was 10/22/2011. http://armstrongeconomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/armstrongeconomics-is-zurich-super-entity-real-102211.pdf.

How does socialism & corruption mix into the way DC & Wall Street operates. Mayor Bloomberb should know all about how the system works. He is a ex Goldmans Sachs man who now is the man who directs the NYPD to do what ever is needed to remove the OWS. Others have their own view on corruption & this is a great one also.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1319659200.php. Jim breaks down how the way Americans were sold the crap our leaders feed us & how corporations found their way around the rules. In his article he tells the truth that most hate to hear.

Mark Uzick October 29, 2011 at 6:28 am

@ Robert >>>The political machine’s clear and unambigous purpose is to indoctrinate people into a system where the primary objective is to promise the people everything they want, and then to deliver none of it.<<<

Given what it is that the people demand, is there anyone in their right mind that would believe that the politicos can, let alone be willing to, live up to their promises?

Like all enterprises, the civil government, no matter how poisonous its product, will attempt to maintain and even ramp up demand for what it sells.

Politicians like Ron Paul are smoke shop owners who actively try to dissuade customers from continuing their smoking habit; an example of integrity that's a rare exception to the rule.

Don't expect honest or rational politicians until there is an honest and rational fraction of the public large enough to create a sufficient market demand for their services.

Mark Uzick October 29, 2011 at 7:20 am

>>>Brad October 28, 2011 at 7:54 pm

Ron Paul’s statement that we should sell the country’s gold was said to make two points….

(1) the gold price is still too low.
(2) that there might not be any gold in the vaults.<<<

The price of gold is too low in terms of what?:

1. Goods and services? (Not really, since the world is mired in a deflating credit bubble that's being masked, but not undone, by monetary inflation.)

2. Federal Reserve Notes? (As FRN's have an intrinsic value – as opposed to market value – of precisely ZERO, the FRN price of gold, no matter how high it goes, will never be too high.

The price of gold can, theoretically, become a bubble in terms of what things of real value it will purchase, but never in terms of fiat money.

The US$ represents nothing whatsoever than the mass delusion that it represents wealth. Be there but one US$ in existence or a trillion-trillion US$s, its value is exactly the same: ZERO!

The infinite multiplication of the US$ can do nothing to reduce its real value; the ensuing price inflation is not really analogous to the drop in the value of gold that would accompany a massive gold discovery; it only serves to devalue people's naive faith in the value of that which represents nothing by demonstration of the effortlessness required to flood the world with these unredeemable tokens of blind faith.

Only a tiny percentage of the created fiat money is going towards papering over the empty holes in bank balance sheets as opposed to monetizing the debt created by government spending.

Barring a change in policy, this massive money creation will continue to be, for the greater part, mainlined into the economy in the most unproductive way; pushing up demand for goods and services, while providing little or even, considering all the new regulations it will pay for, less supply.

This is the actual way the banks will be bailed out: As dollars become worth less, the real estate that backs their mortgages, though falling in value in terms of real money (gold), will rise, in nominal price, above the mortgages held against them, making the banks and irresponsible borrowers liquid at the expense of the people who have worked and saved.

If there is a change in policy and a true deflation of fiat dollars occurs, history shows that the buying power of gold still increases during credit deflation, as it did in the great depression of the 30's.

Mark Uzick October 29, 2011 at 12:33 pm

>>>fallingman October 29, 2011 at 1:08 am

“A government by its nature is neither evil nor prone to corruption.”

Hahahaha. That’s a good one. They’re your friends and there here to help you, right Gare? We just wish they hadn’t fallen in with the wrong crowd. Is that it?<<<

Gary's statement (if not his meaning) is true; all legitimate government is given its authority by the consent of those it governs. The state, on the other hand, as it rules by the arbitrary decree of power, justifying its actions though ad-hoc rationalizations (pragmatism) and dogma, is no government at all, but represents the very destruction of voluntary spontaneous social order (government) itself; the state is the essence of anarchy.

On another level: The form that civil government takes – the particular mixture of voluntary enterprise and monopolistic aggression (anarchy) – is, as Gary says, "neither evil nor prone to corruption" except to the extent that it is a reflection of the general moral state of the people who are its clients.

Mark Uzick October 29, 2011 at 12:36 pm

I meant to say:

“except to the extent that evil and corruption are a reflection of the general moral state of the people who are its clients.”

ken horn October 29, 2011 at 6:24 pm

It’s interesting listening to all the comments about our government. If you’re on the fence about whether big government is a positive or negative force, think about a couple of obvious facts – no term limits, full pension after one term in office, no payment into the social security system (they have their own gold plated pension), their own health coverage (gee, I thought Obamacare was the bomb!!), ability to vote themselves a raise. Talk about feathering your nest – WOW. The founding fathers believed that congressmen should donate a couple of years to public service & then return to the private sector. Today, the power, prestige & perks are such that we only attract the lifetime politico/bureaucrat who needs only campaigning skills & no real common sense. We need an amendment that any law passed by congress must also apply to them. The sooner these “special people” are brought down to our level, the sooner will be begin to get
some reasonable legislation.

mava October 29, 2011 at 6:43 pm

Vere, very useful note, Ken Horn! I completely agree.

There is yet another way for them to profit from their position, which means “to do whatever brings in profit”, and that is all the other, secret deals they can arrange themselves into, to receive payments not directly related to their acts. For instance, I can consistently vote in favor of Insurance companies, without any traceable promise to myself, and yet, be very sure that upon an end of my term, I will be offered a do-nothing position somewhere in that industry with huge salary.

This, your rules above will not be able to eradicate. Because, I may be suffering from the outrage of Insurance companies that I have helped to create, but no more than anyone else, while I benefit from a covert pay-back far more greatly than anyone.

As far as I know, this is a deadly sin of democracy, and there is absolutely nothing that democracy cap do to stop it. This is the reason any democracy MUST necessarily evolve into fascism or collapse.

Do you have any ideas on that one?

blueRepublican October 30, 2011 at 7:53 am

Ron Paul opted out of the congressional pension.

Ron Paul yearly returns part of his office budget to the Treasury.

mava October 29, 2011 at 6:33 pm

“sell our country’s gold”

- There is no such thing as “our country’s gold”. That gold belongs to people who were victimized by our country in 1933. That gold, belongs to our country not any more than the loot belongs to a pirate, or a car belongs to a thief who stole it.

I am referring here to 1933 violent extortion of gold from the owners in favor of Fascist-Communist dictator Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

That gold, properly should be returned, exchanged at the same rate plus the real inflation difference, plus the damages, to those who can possibly be traced as owners or their heirs. The remainder of gold must be sold of an open and free market without any limitation whatsoever.

You don’t do the right thing because the profit or loss dictates you to do, you do it because it is the right thing to do in the first place.

Ron Paul refers to selling gold from this point of view first and foremost. But, it also works great to improve the economy and to expose the FED and that they have spent a large part of stolen gold by now, without even being able to account for it, which means, that they were taking it out of the vaults in private capacity (i.e. stealing).

fallingman October 30, 2011 at 7:18 pm

Thank you for this comment.

ken horn October 29, 2011 at 7:24 pm

mava, I am not naive enough to believe my amendment would put a dent in the corruptive forces of gov’t, it’s only a start; more symbolic than anything else. The corruption is so wide-spread & endemic in every fiber of Washington that it seems an impossible task to begin. Power is just too tempting, sad as it is.

mava October 29, 2011 at 7:48 pm

I am not trying to devalue your thought, just building on it. I am sorry if it appeared to be otherwise.

mava October 29, 2011 at 7:56 pm

Besides, ken horn, your thought is not so “symbolic” as you think. It is a right thought, the way it was and supposed to be, and it will work just as you point out and just as it was designed by the founding fathers.

I was just saying that we, unfortunately, do not have the environment it was supposed to work in. We have democracy, and in democracy, conceptually, all bets are off. I have shown why, by way of example.

Conceptually, democracy is not and never can be stable, because it allows a majority control over anyone’s private property, – something Jefferson pointed out.

By doing that, the chain of “intention – action – responsibility (be it profit or loss)” is broken, i.e. the system has it’s feedback loop severed. Try this with any of the system, and watch it morph into an another, more stable (state) system, which in case of democracy will be fascism.

Mark Uzick October 30, 2011 at 4:28 pm

The government of a society tends to reflect the values of the society at large. Democratic institutions are the tools by which this tendency may manifest in a rapid, efficient and peaceful way.

If the people want to rob their wealthier neighbors; prefer to be told how to think and what to do; scapegoat foreigners and immigrants for their own shortcomings and institute their intolerant religious beliefs as “legally” enforced dogma, then this moral corruption will incorporate itself into their system of government.

If the people value liberty; think for themselves and treat others with the same justice and respect that they expect from others, then this morality will become incorporated into their system of government.

Democracy is a tool that gives the people the power to peacefully change their government, but it cannot corrupt a people who are not already corrupt; it can only encourage the institution of an already existing corruption. In the same way, it cannot bring about a love of liberty for a people who do not already value liberty; it can only encourage the institution of an already existing love of liberty.

Arguments that democracy corrupts are just as false as arguments that equate democracy with liberty.

Jill October 30, 2011 at 6:52 am

Hey, Folks, here is an article that reminded me of the guest column by Carol recently.

http://lifehacker.com/5676149/how-to-ditch-big-brother-and-disappear-forever

ken horn October 30, 2011 at 7:05 am

mava, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. no offense taken. your thoughts are right on the mark.

Jill October 30, 2011 at 5:01 pm

Question for folks, so supposing Ron Paul does get elected. How then do his supporters protect him from ending up like the last president who made noises about abolishing the Fed? That was John F. Kennedy, in case you don’t remember or weren’t alive back then.

mava October 30, 2011 at 7:23 pm

Jill,

I understand that this thread somehow alleges that the OWC is a movement of Ron Paul supporters. I find that to be deeply mistaken, and bit offensive. You know, in a way like when you had this great and well thought out idea, and you’ve been trying to relate it, when someone says : Oh, this is what you want? , and suggest something entirely stupid on a level that you wouldn’t even bother the people with.

OWA has nothing to do with RP. OWA is guided and financed by CIA, and this is supposed to support Obama later, and assist him in transforming the US into a fascist dictatorship, probably through formal constitutional convention. Just the same way as was done to Russia in 1917.

How can the opposite be even suggested? OWA wants what? Higher wages and lower prices? Only an economic idiot can say something like that. People over profits? How ridiculous is this one? No, you may or not accept RP’s plan, but I hear it everywhere from those who’s been supporting him financially for years, that this is a full blown assault on our good name.

OK, sorry for this rant. Anyway, personally, I am sure that if RP gets elected, the *** will assassinate him. They simply cannot allow him to do what he wants to do, or even to say the things he might start saying if he has an office of a president.

For this reason, I have no hope. It is now clear to me that the US will not be different, and will succumb to the same old dirty trick. But technically, yes, I am a RP supporter. There is no way to protect him, because most people in America do not value what America in some way still is, and they would rather watch sports or other TV junk than read Jefferson and think of actually being human.

Nature is not nice to lazy people.

Jill October 30, 2011 at 11:29 pm

I see no evidence that OWS is controlled either by the CIA or by Ron Paul supporters–either one. There are conspiracy theories on the web about the CIA, but there is a new conspiracy theory about something every hour. So what? I hope you don’t believe all of them.

As for Ron Paul and OWS, I actually have no clue which presidential candidate a majority of OWS supporters are likely to vote for. I would not be in the least surprised if there were not a single candidate that a majority of the OWS folks approve of, as they seem to have a lot of different beliefs and signs .

mava October 30, 2011 at 7:45 pm

Mark Uzick,

“Arguments that democracy corrupts are just as false as arguments that equate democracy with liberty.”

I do not argue that democracy corrupts. I am arguing that there never was, is, or will be, a society that is not full of junk, thieves, and just outright bad people.
Therefore, I am arguing that since most people are corrupted, the democracy is an extremely poor choice.

80% of people are 20% corrupt, and 20% of people are 80% corrupt. Pareto rule could probably apply here. This, sounds like reality to me, judging by what I have seen.

Now, what do you want to do? Have a democracy and then keep blaming it on the people who are not angels?
Or do you want to give them the system that would work, and allow the angels among them to remain clear of scars and peck wounds?

If I say “democracy sucks”, theoretically, this would be wrong, because the democracy can probably work somewhere in Andromeda. Although we know even from Helenic myths that even Gods were just like ourselves and sinned every day.

In theory, plain idyllic view, yes, some unearthly perfect society can have democracy. Maybe a society of you and the Dalai lama. We can’t even include a single Pope in that society, and he will do anything to get money and power and some little boys.

A society like that, by the way, would not need money! Because they will simply HONESTLY wear a tag on their chest, where they would chalk up how many favors they did to others, and that would solve the economic calculation problem, so then the communist would be within reach.

So, if you want to defend the democracy on a theoretical basis that it does not corrupts, and therefore instead of getting rid of democracy we should be busy bettering ourselves, then what is your opposition to communism?

Back on earth, in reality, – just take a look around. This is how it worked out for us in practice.

I believe it to be very unreasonable, to build a society on a principle that will never apply to that society in practice.

mava October 31, 2011 at 2:45 am

Jill,

I believe the conspiracy theory that paints the criminals in the bad light. It’s the same theory that says where is smoke there is fire. There is no way I would want to go and take a crap in a park. This is why, the people who want to do that, because they refuse to work hard enough to match their needs, always arise my suspicions.

As disorganized and yet not banned and promoted everywhere the “movement” is, it speaks volumes of who pays the bills.

How often do you meet with people you have nothing in common with, and spend a few days shouting about things you don’t understand?

Right, not very often (me neither)! May-be when someone pays you to. Very unnatural behavior.

Anyone else who organizes in a group, does it first and foremost because there is a single common goal. That is the whole point of organizing. The fact that they can’t even form a coherent opinion testifies that whoever pays them, has not revealed the end of the script yet.

A conspiracy theory presumes that there was an organizing force behind an event the theory attempts to explain. That there were conspirators. For instance, to say that Arabs decided to attack America, is necessarily to offer a conspiracy theory.

Or, to say that there was no conspiracy behind 9-11, is exactly the same as to say that you believe those events had happened on accident. While they may have been, however unlikely, happened all by accident, your line of argument would rightfully be classified as “the coincidence theory”.

I know that the government wants us to automatically reject the “conspiracy theorists”, and like sheep, accept that everything is accidental. But now look where rejecting conspiracy theory puts you. The government certainly doesn’t want you to know the meaning here, but I doubt that “a coincidence theory believer” is what you want yourself to be known as.

Mark Uzick October 31, 2011 at 7:30 am

mava: >>>”Now, what do you want to do? Have a democracy and then keep blaming it on the people who are not angels?
Or do you want to give them the system that would work, and allow the angels among them to remain clear of scars and peck wounds?”<<>>CHAPTER V
DISCIPLINE

“THE pedagogical method of observation has for its base the liberty of the child; and liberty is activity.

Discipline must come through liberty. Here is a great principle which is difficult for the followers of common-school methods to understand. How shall one obtain discipline in a class of free children? Certainly in our system, we have a concept of discipline very different from that commonly accepted. If discipline is founded upon liberty, the discipline itself must necessarily be active. We do not consider an individual disciplined only when he has been rendered as artificially silent as a mute and as immovable as a paralytic. He is an individual annihilated, not disciplined.

We call an individual disciplined when he is master of himself, and can, therefore, regulate his own conduct when it shall be necessary to follow some rule of life. Such a concept of active discipline is not easy to comprehend or to apply. But certainly it contains a great educational principle, very different from the old-time absolute and undiscussed coercion to immobility. “<<<

Mark Uzick October 31, 2011 at 8:20 am

It appears that my whole reply was lost, except for a quote at the end.

I haven’t the time to start over, but I’ll summarize:
1. A benevolent dictatorship is a Utopian fantasy.

2. A system of government with the power to oppose the popular will would inevitably become corrupt.

3. Even a dictator requires popular support so democracy is an inescapable reality. A democratic system only ensures that the inevitable democratic changes are done peacefully.

4. People who desire liberty must dispense with the futile and destructive notions that people are inherently weak and corruptible and that liberty can be imposed on an unwilling populace.

5. The hard work of education and moral enlightenment of ourselves and our neighbors must displace these lazy fantasies before we can have an evolution of the government of our lives, including civil government, toward one of gradually increasing liberty, justice and respect for the rights of others.

6. It must begin with very young children; allowing them the liberty to develop their self-discipline and independence before their spirit is crushed by well meaning but foolish “teachers”. External rewards are corrupting and punishments pervert the natural pleasure of curiosity and exploration into fear and hatred for learning and a dependence upon authority for approval.

Anyone interested in liberty must read Dr. Montessori:

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/montessori/method/method.html

Comments on this entry are closed.