Stocks, Gold Diverge, but with Little Zeal

The weather could become Topic A around here if the markets get any more boring than they have been. Yesterday’s snooze fest was impressive in one respect, though: It demonstrated that the Dow can fall 265 points, as it did on Friday, and wake up Monday morning with no trace of a hangover.  Did stocks perhaps fall because cyclical forces had ordained it?  We’ll never know.  But whatever may have been troubling traders as the week drew to a close, it was not a factor in Monday’s gratuitous waft higher. The Industrial Average closed with a gain of 56 points, showing no particular strength or enthusiasm, only a mild propensity to take the path of least resistance.  The hum-drum price action is corroborated by some widely followed technical indicators, including the McClellan Oscillator. We’ll be hearing more about the McClellan later this week from our friend and colleague Larry Amernick, who thinks that tedium will be with us for yet a while longer. From a McClellan standpoint, he says, traders can only get in trouble by taking a plunge right now.

We expect Gold to take out support at 1168, but without damaging the long-term bull

Continuing a pattern that has persisted for some weeks, yesterday’s unimpressive strength in the broad averages was matched by unimpressive weakness in Gold futures. The Comex August contract was  down nearly $12 at the lows, trading for 1176.90.  This is the lowest the futures have been since May, but it stopped shy of breaching a major supportive low at 1168.00 recorded on May 21.  Actually, we have been anticipating somewhat worse by way of a Hidden Pivot target at 1140.10.  Bulls will have a chance to take a stand at 1155.00, the corrective target of a lesser pattern and our minimum downside objective for the near term. But if the support fails, you can infer that more weakness to at least 1140.10 is coming.  At that price the August contract will have fallen $126.40 from the record high reached on June 21, the summer solstice. That’s almost precisely ten percent, which is no big deal in the context of the 38 percent increase that gold’s price had racked up since last July. If the upward trek continues at the same pace, sliding back one step for each four steps gained, Gold shouldn’t have much difficulty reaching a key Hidden Pivot target at $1364 by year’s end or early next.

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  • Ledbedder July 20, 2010, 10:01 pm

    For what it is worth, gold futures contract hasn’t had a YEARLY high in June. My data goes back to 1975. Gold bulls…be patient…we can make a killing before the end of the year!

  • keith July 20, 2010, 9:59 pm

    What has astounded me about gold is how it seems to fall in price when things get a little edgy in the markets. I’ve been trained to believe that gold is a hedge against times of uncertainty and panic. However, my observation has been that almost every time we get a panic in the markets gold goes down. The only exception being the recent run-up during the Euro Crisis.

    Perhaps it’s a simple., “buy the rumor sell the fact” scenario as the gold bull market goes on. The point I want to get at is this… I don’t believe we will ever see gold reach $2000 or $5000 or whatever number you wish to use on FEAR. The only way we’ll see $2000+ gold is through pure GREED, just like every other market bubble or top in history. People have a propensity to sell when fearful and buy when they don’t want to miss out on the big move.

    I’d like to hear opinion of why gold goes down every time the market gets edgy.

    • Benjamin July 21, 2010, 12:28 am

      “I’d like to hear opinion of why gold goes down every time the market gets edgy.”

      Treasurys, aka the still far too prefered safe haven.

      Still, if you look back to the ’08 fall you’ll see that gold did better than all else. It didn’t fall as much because apparently it’s not worth getting rid of like everything else that can only value itself in terms of currency. The exception of course are Treasurys because that is future paper money.

    • mikeck July 22, 2010, 3:17 am

      Perhaps you overlook the fact that you are quoting, “The only way we’ll see $2000+ gold is through pure GREED,” in a yardstick that is shrinking.

      GOLD WILL NOT MAKE YOU WEALTHY…it will merely preserve your wealth when fiat currencies approach their true value of zero.

  • fallingman July 20, 2010, 5:00 pm

    The “bubble” stuff comes from those who look at recent price history, see that gold is making new highs and conclude that it’s “overvalued,” ipso facto. That doesn’t even qualify as analysis.

    Without even knowing it, these folks are caught up in the Thomian (Thomas Aquinas philosophy as built on the ideas of Aristotle) notion that there’s a “fair” price for everything and that it can be determined in some sort of objective way. But that’s nonsense, so one is left to look at recent prices (as they did) and conclude that anything that is higher than the recent price is “too high” (“price gouging”) and anything that’s lower than prevailing recent pricing is “too low” (“being dumped”).

    As a result, most people are stuck in the 13th century when thinking about price. That’s a good way to be left sitting on the platform watching the train pull away.

    Put simply to make it meaningful for trading, just because something is up doesn’t mean it’s coming down and just because something is down doesn’t mean it has to rise. That’s something most of us have probably learned the hard way when we were getting started

  • Rich July 20, 2010, 4:42 pm

    More alligator wrassling today, eh Rick?

    Gold not a mainstream market despite late-night razzle dazzle cable ads.

    Back in 1930 and 1980 only a small number of people owned either gold or silver, and most on the wrong side of the market, selling when they should have bought, and vice versa.

    Gold P&F target now 1090…

    http://stockcharts.com/charts/gallery.html?s=%24gold

    McClellan Oscillator peaked back in March ahead of stocks in April. Could be some rough sledding down the slope of hope with Big Board Bored stocks pointing a thousand points lower with few exceptions.

    http://stockcharts.com/charts/indices/McSumNYSE.html

    http://stockcharts.com/charts/gallery.html?$NYA

    • mikeck July 21, 2010, 4:10 am

      Yeah, those late night ads are trying to get folks to SELL, not to buy…hello, is anyone paying attention?

      I often wonder how those who sold when gold went below 1200 are faring vs, those who bought when it fell below 1200…I, a buyer, am still sleeping well! As long as I have my wealth in something of value, I sleep well. If I sell gold short, I hold dollars…not very comforting!

      As anyone who has studied history knows, all fiat currencies will attain their true value, i.e. zero when compared to real money. If you are agile enough to get back in before that, congrats. History is not on your side!

      Mike

  • Avocado July 20, 2010, 2:05 pm

    The charts say we may have reversed the trend. On a log chart we can draw a straight trendline from the October 2008 low to the July 7 low and beyond. On Friday it broke down below this trendline for the first time since it began. On a arithmetic chart the trend support is still valid, at yesterday’s low. So if it breaks down to 1168 then I would say the bull is dead for awhile, perhaps a year or two.

    I used the same technique over a much longer period to determine the great bull market in stocks ended in 2007. The long term chart for gold is still up, but considering what is likely to be happening with respect to deflation and the dollar over the next few years I would expect gold to fall for awhile. Especially so since there are so many people forcasting huge increases in the not so distant future.

    One argument I hear a lot of for a bull market is the public has not gotten involved, so when they do the price should mushroom. But what if the public is broke and has no money to invest in something as risky as gold? With high unemployment and fear ruling the land why would the public risk anything on something they do not understand?

    I’m hoping gold will fall to under $900, it would be a great buying opportunity for some of the stocks I follow.

    Andy

    • Benjamin July 20, 2010, 3:46 pm

      “One argument I hear a lot of for a bull market is the public has not gotten involved, so when they do the price should mushroom. But what if the public is broke and has no money to invest in something as risky as gold? With high unemployment and fear ruling the land why would the public risk anything on something they do not understand? ”

      Hello, Andy. I used to wonder those same things, until I thought outside the box. I hate that phrase, but that’s what I did and here’s what I concluded…

      Have those negative factors affected the gold price so far? (asked in Feb 09). And since there is so much money in so many other things, why assume that it can’t come out of there and into gold? (asked since I got into this)

      Ironically, however, gold price really doesn’t need public support. In fact, that’s the reason that its price is so high to begin with. If the general public were insistant on sound money, it wouldn’t be anything like this at all. Things would be priced in gold, not gold in dollars. But so long as they don’t insist, don’t worry… the banking system will keep on hedging themselves with it.

      If it had to matter, though, no, there aren’t enough cheap gold ounces for everyone. Grams and milligrams are a different story, though. Today, you can buy a gram of gold somewhere in the high thirty dollar range, which isn’t terribly expensive even for the poor. It’s even cheaper to buy a milligram. Now, supposed gold did shoot up to 100,000/oz (just saying). How much would a gram cost?

      Gram: 100000.00 / 31.103 = 3215.12
      Milligram: 3215.12 / 1000 = 3.22
      Microgram: 3.22 / 1,000 = 0.00322

      And so on, thorugh nanograms to picograms to… whatever comes after pico, and all the way down to chemical atoms, of which there are approximately 150 decillion in the above-ground supply.

      So gold is cheap enough for just about everyone to afford, even in these troubled times. To facilitate those kinds of trades, simply use a digital bullion bank like Bullion Vault or Gold Money. There are others out there, but those are the best and most reputable I’ve encountered. And while they quite go that low yet, I suspect they will have to in the future because there is no other answer. Gold and silver need to be money again, and many people need to have access to it.

      Anyway, as for the two to three year hiatus… could you elaborate please? I’m always interested in worst case scenarios, but I’ve yet to see that in my bones and runestones.

    • mario cavolo July 20, 2010, 3:47 pm

      Hi Andy! ….yet the key point is that the public, the “rich” public is richer than ever on planet earth!….both in the U.S. and then even more so here in China, plenty of money to spread around, spend and invest. The luxury market has become its own “Mars”, separate from the rest of the world that has gotten screwed and will struggle economically for years to come. That’s today’s state of affairs, it is factually and statistically accurate.

      In the U.S., asset value is being created out of nowhere by the currency printing press. The other shoe hasn’t dropped YET on that scenario.

      In China, asset value is being created in a much more “realistic way; by good old fashioned appreciation and inflation of various sectors of the economy: mainly price inflation, wage inflation, and real estate inflation, together which has created an unprecedented level of trillions in new wealth in the hands of real citizens to invest, roll, liquidate, spend on the planet.

      So I think its possible that the “public” you are referring to is right there like those of us on this board eagerly and carefully waiting for the dips to buy in. I love the idea that gold will go back down below 1100 or whatever key price identifies a long term bottom, because I’ll buy a load. The same for oil, stocks, commodities. There’s a boatload of money on the sidelines, makes for an interesting dynamic. Mind you, I regard myself as clueless at best in terms of really knowing. Follow Rick, follow Nenner, follow Wayalat, etc…that’s about all I can do.

      Cheers, Mario

  • Benjamin July 20, 2010, 1:48 am

    1145 seems a good lower target but, and if only for the sake of pessimism, I haven’t yet ruled out a drop back below 1,000 some time this year or early next. Such a drop does seem pretty unlikely, though.

    But what amuses me is that you have to say 1168 wouldn’t kill the bull. It should really go without saying, but so many are still not even giving gold a glance, let alone any consideration. Why, it was just a month ago where I read a comment in some other forum where people argued about gold being way over-priced!

    Let’s analyze this unimaginable statement of complete and total falsehood, shall we? The metals are such a smaller share of the whole market. So not all that many investors are in. How can that be over-bought, let alone waaay over-bought? Gold keeps going up as stocks struggle in their bear rally and Treasury interest continues their relentless march down, and those are by far where most investors are!

    Given that, this is what the naysayers mean by over-bought: “I was too stuborn/stupid to limit myself in bonds and stocks, so now my only hope is that gold really is somehow overbought by so many so that I can get in when I should have, but didn’t!”

    So in conclusion, gold has a ridiculously long way up to go yet and naysayers are silly, silly indviduals 🙂

    • mario cavolo July 20, 2010, 3:34 pm

      Hi Benjamin, counterpoint and question, is it not the case that GLD is fast becoming the ETF at trading volume even higher than the SPY?. Do we think gold has gone mainstream yet or not?….you’re suggesting it hasn’t. Meanwhile, the funny thing is how it is touted like a juice machine or ginsu knives on TV, which no other asset class is….that’s just laughable and scary…

      Cheers, Mario

    • Benjamin July 20, 2010, 3:54 pm

      Hello, Mr Cavolo! Well, lets see here…

      What’s GLD and ETF? I only know bullion because of all the bad things I’ve read about those two others.

      As for the TV ads, I see them every now and then here in the Chiagoland area. I guess things are different in China. But my ultimate and self-styled indicator is how many people use Bullion Vault to buy, own, and trade gold, which isn’t many at all. I think it’s under 30,000 so far. Thing is, if you want it in such a way, you can buy and own a single gram and no more. Anyone can do it and it doesn’t really cost all that much. So when it gets to 30 million people, then I’ll start to think gold has truly gone mainstream 🙂