Credit Card Rates Push the Envelope

You’ve got to wonder what the banks have in mind now that they’ve raised credit card rates to an average 14.7 percent, up 160 basis points from a year ago. Are lenders perhaps trying to tell us that they are no longer interested in advancing cash to users of plastic? After all, what shopper or diner would borrow a dime with a credit card if it carried such an exorbitant interest charge? And even if there were borrowers at such usurious rates, how many of them could be counted on to service their loans indefinitely (which is how long it would take to pay off such loans)?  It’s not as though the banks can go after delinquent borrowers with such time-honored tools of the loan shark as baseball bats, brass-buckled belts and straight razors.

Banks will be unable to employ the loan shark's traditional tools to nudge recalcitrant borrowers.

Still, we have to assume the banks know their business and that they think they can make a profit by charging economically lethal rates on unsecured balances. But if you or I were making such loans, we’d probably be asking ourselves up-front, How desperate does someone have to be to run up credit-card debt at 14.7%?  The answer, obviously, is:  the kind of person we would not want to lend money to. So why are the banks doing it anyway? It’s possible that although they don’t actually know how things will play out, they believe they’ve pegged rates high enough to compensate for new regulations that will make it more difficult for them to lend as they traditionally have – i.e., with the same loving kindness and respect for their customers as Frankie the Camel and rent-to-own furniture stores. And who cares about high delinquency rates when there will always be a few customers willing and able to pay $6 for $5 (and presumably much more if there are penalties and fees involved).  Although the regulators may have made it harder for banks to assess such charges, they have not been eliminated.

Joe Sixpack’s Fate

However this disaster-in-the-making plays out, it’s obvious that 14.7 percent interest rates are not going to stimulate retail purchases, even though that has always been the ostensible point of credit cards. The inflationists will probably say that loan-shark rates on plastic represent just one more cost that is going up. But because no one – even Las Vegas casinos — can actually afford to borrow at such rates for more than short stretches of time, we would argue the opposite – that credit cards designed to stimulate spending are fast becoming a deflationary pressure point, burdening shoppers with real rates of interest that are more than triple what the average hedge fund is returning these days. Under the circumstances, Joe Sixpack will be biting off more than he can chew if he opts to  make only minimum payments for perhaps three or four months.

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  • Alex Bond August 27, 2010, 5:40 am

    I see the recent increase in credit card interest rates as the last gasp of the banking sector to salvage their earnings in the short term.

    I have seen rates on cards increase by 50-100% without explanation or provocation. As others have mentioned, this type of increase is unsustainable and eventually the people will rebel against the inherent injustice in the banks borrowing money at 1% or less, and then turning around to lend it to them at 20%.

    I think the credit card market will suffer a split between the credit worthy and the overextended, where the banks will lose their good customers and end up with a portfolio of nothing but deeply indebted individuals that are poor credit risks. A good credit card customer with enough money to pay their bills in full each month will be disgusted at the increases — and either cancel their cards or move their purchases to cards that don’t act like plastic loan sharks. The bad customer will continue to run up debt, and once a late payment is made (or exceeding the credit limit, or whatever triggers an account “reset”) causing the bank to jack up interest rates to 29.99% – the rage will be immediate. It wouldn’t be unreasonable for the bad customer to think “Hey, they’re just trying to screw me over with the 30% interest — so why don’t I screw them first? They deserve it anyway…” — right before he takes cash advances and makes large purchases to run the card to its limit. After all, if you’re going to default, you might as well default big, right?

    A simple case in point: I had a credit card that I used for my business for many, many years. My average annual purchases on that card were around $100,000; I always paid my bills on time and the balance was paid in full every other month (due to the way my cash flow works). I was a good customer, giving the bank their percentage on my large transaction amounts and paying a little bit of interest every other month while I waited for my cash flow to cycle in. A few months ago, I was simply too busy to pay attention to everything I should have paid attention to, and I ended up paying my credit card (in full) one day late. My rate tripled to 29%. I was rather offended, so I called the bank to complain. The customer service representative eventually changed my rate back to what it had been — but by then I was extremely unhappy with the bank and how it thought it could treat my account. After hanging up with the rep, I threw the credit card into the shredder and switched all of my purchases to a different account.

    The bank will now lose the transaction fees and the interest it had earned on me for the better part of a decade. The bank’s greed has cost them a valuable customer.

    People hate the banks, they resent the bailouts and free money given (by the trillions!) to the banks while little is done for “Joe Sixpack”, and they will eventually rebel. It won’t be pretty when it happens.

  • ricecake August 27, 2010, 1:51 am

    Great!

    There will be new lending business growing like green shoots in the land of financial needs. The new lenders will offer much better rates to the Americans. The demand is there and there are lots of capitals sitting on the sideline generate nothing. Some one will put those capital into use. Guaranteed.

    4 fun – Al Jolson – Brother can you spare a Dime
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4yT0KAMyo

  • Steve W August 27, 2010, 1:24 am

    Since my country keeps digging itself its own grave of debt, I keep thinking there might be a better place in the world to go take my money and talent to. So far, haven’t found one. However, off topic here….I love that bat in the picture. It looks like an old Nap Lajoie model, similar to the one I own.

    &&&&&&

    Nap Lajoie model? Must be petrified wood by now…
    RA

  • Benjamin August 26, 2010, 8:32 pm

    All I know is that I’m glad that I never had one. That, and I deeply suspect it will fall out of favor as well, and be replaced by welfare, which is the same thing, only less money to buy things with.

    Anyway, I see the here and there comment about our foreign debt, so I thought now would be a good time to ask the obvious…

    I don’t know about our other creditors, but China devalued to buy U.S. debt. That made them more price competitive. Our jobs left. Our government got more money to keep itself happy.

    Okay, what am I missing here?! What, eaxctly, is there left to pay China? I ask because it sounds to me like an exchange, not a debt. And if there is a debt, methinks it mathmatical hocus-pocus.

    Anyone care to correct me on this??

  • ebear August 26, 2010, 8:29 pm

    Raising rates makes perfect sense if you don’t expect to collect on the debt. The faster the outstanding balance grows, the more you can sell it for to a collection agency. Meanwhile, the minimum payment goes up, so you’ve increased your short term cash flow.

    What this says is that banks don’t expect to recover these debts. Credit is contracting, those that can pay down are doing so, those that can’t are just another depreciating asset to be discounted at a future point. Meantime, we carry them on the books at face value.

    Seems perfectly normal to me.

    ebear

  • Steve August 26, 2010, 7:58 pm

    Sorry for my oh pa ! It is a Facade Grant which does not have to be paid back. It stimulates one property owner who owns most of town. It creates some carpentry jobs at a cost to the taxpayer of 10 times the net gain in wages. But, welfare works as long as there are some savings somewhere to steal.

    I’ve got to get back to work, yet this is so stimulating; to sit here instead of creating a sculpture that no one can afford to buy. I need all of you to make the big bucks because I depend upon houses increasing, people borrowing on equity, and spending with me.

  • Steve August 26, 2010, 7:48 pm

    There you go Darren. Work on the sucking sound of fraud in accounting.

    Interest Rates go up because there is no money ! Everyone has to pay more ‘get’ to make a use. Bonds cost 100 instead of 200 because there isn’t 200 to spend, that increases interest by 100%.

    So far Bernanke has pushed how many trillion into the markets in one way or another ? And what is the net effect behind me – a Loan by Countrywide for 700,000.00, B of. A. writing off 75,000.00, and the house not selling at 280,000.00. What is the net here.

    Joe Sixpack thinks his home is worth 600,000.00 because that is what he is taxed on by the county. Joe has his house on the market for 660,000.00 and the statistics show the price of houses is going up, even if the amount sold is crashing. I sell one house to someone on a liar loan by cooking the down payment into the price and the statistics show the price of houses selling rose X%.

    There is a facade Loan to spruce up Main street in town. What does it cost in forced loans for the government to pay to create a new facade on Main Street (real sign, real town, real time yesterday)

    Real deal. China holds no ‘value’ because federal reserve notes are valueless, only showing a general and paramount lien under the Banking Act of 1913 for ‘use’ of fiat.

    Confidence game – may everyone slowly loose confidence. Yet, as I remember crashes are always waterfall events, and spikes in metals always occur to the top with wide U shaped bottoms.

    Here is our problem – Congress said that value is a Dollar at 371 4/16ths gains of fine silver in a Coin struck by the Mint for the several States. Congress in rebellion created valueless notes territorially for corporate enfrancisee mobocracy which now float at about 17 notes to 1 Dollar. Balance comes at 1 = 1 which was last seen in 1971. Swing the pendulum and discover where balance may occur. Use some fancy Italian math and one might predict a date. Want Change – it must be radical and China might own all the Oil and cut us off by owning all Oil in North America.

  • Darren August 26, 2010, 6:43 pm

    Lets see, interest is the price of money. It’s going up. Sounds like inflation to me!

    Going back to one of my favorite places, Venezuela. Back in the mid ’90s when their inflation was approaching triple digits I remember banks offering upwards of 70% interest on savings accounts. Their economy was contracting during much of that time.
    Even today they have one of the highest inflation rates in the world & 2 years of contraction going.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela#1960s_-_1990s

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela

  • Brutlstrudl August 26, 2010, 6:14 pm

    Will somebody tell me where the sidelines are?

    • cosmo August 26, 2010, 7:42 pm

      Gold, my friend, GOLD…I sleep very well at night knowing that it is in a safe place under my control. And you would have to kill me before you get it, but that assumes you know I have it(good luck finding me)

      The world spins, and chaos reins, but I am not disturbed…Om Shanthi

  • Edward August 26, 2010, 4:33 pm

    “There will be no crash and pray that’s right. Its a silly permabear idea. Relax. Trade. Adjust. Remember…low yields and low interest rates…”

    This, in essence, is an assertion, that the ongoing collapse will be orderly. Has it been orderly so far? When I look at a chart of a variety of asset classes, such as shares and real estate, I don’t see orderly, I see contained…barely contained. As for the more serious issue of social vitality, of which charts of the stock market and real estate industry can only hint at, we seem to have, save for the protests of a relatively small number of citizens, a condition of, for lack of a better word, catatonia. That may change as deprivation, as opposed to serious discomfort, comes to the fore.

    • mario cavolo August 26, 2010, 4:52 pm

      Evening Edward, I don’t know my friend. I’m being a bit tongue in cheek here and not meaning a cavalier response (I’m freakin’ scared for the future in many ways), but what ongoing collapse? we’re having a collapse? Where?…though I love your word “contained”, nicely descriptive. America is in a downcycle, not a collapse. Asia/China is in an upcycle. Filthy rich swimming in cash, good for them. 100 million Americans screwed over, another 100 million are richer than ever…seems a balance to me.

      Don’t remind me: U.S. has flooded the market with trillions. Chinese too in fact. We know, we know and that’s why as I’ve said currency purchasing power is going to decline as it has been historically ( Im still honestly confused if that’s called inflation or deflation when your currency buys less and less but stuff costs more and more …)

      Real estate catatonia? I paid $110,000 for a typical suburban home in Scottsdale, AZ in 1985. 10 years later, in 1995 it was still worth $110,000. Today’s its worth $180,000 after peaking at $250,000. Maybe it will go down to $160,000. So what?

      I do have an important question: WHAT EXACTLY would be the mechanism or circumstance which would somehow FORCE interest rates / bond yields higher ? I ask because I do think its rather obvious THAT is at the top of the must avoid list which will in fact destroy the monetary world as we know it.

      Cheers, Mario

    • jj August 26, 2010, 5:27 pm

      Mario, if I may chime in. The #1 reason your US interest rates are so low and staying so (for now) is your Fed is printing money to buy its own debt! We know China recently has backed away from purchasing US debt at the same levels that it has for years, the world is choking on debt, where are the buyers of all this debt going to come from? Eric Sprott did an excellent review into who’s buying US debt and his findings… http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/US-treasuries-pd20091230-Z7QUA?OpenDocument&src=sph
      Uncle Sam…therefore keeping rates artificially low….but for how long before rates MUST head higher to entice buyers, how much higher depends on confidence to service these growing debts…..and that can trigger alot higher rates….can any country handle much higher rates to service their debts and run their economies, no way!….but that doesn’t mean it isn’t coming.
      The world markets were just starting to focus on the US debt issue when the PIGGS took centre stage….Uncle Sam’s time is coming….Bill Gross said mortgage yields could raise 4% without government support=feds buying in debt markets.

    • mario cavolo August 26, 2010, 5:37 pm

      Hi jj, thanks..I know its a nightmare underneath…they are and they have to hold rates low with such a mountain of debt. I’m remembering Rick’s comment somewhere back a few days that the new goal becomes just being able to preserve capital, even at tiny yields….people are scared sh*$%tless…buyers are now flocking to bonds even at low low yields…a harbinger of things to come?…Cheers, M

    • Steve August 26, 2010, 7:22 pm

      Mario,

      Likewise, I don’t care what the perceived value of a home is because I have no mortgage. The home keeps me warm, dry, and I tell stories today. My dad lost his dad in 1933 – at 18 he pulled the crosscut for 50 cents a day to feed his sisters, brother, and mom. Dad borrowed 100.00 silver certificates to start his home in 1946, and never borrowed again, though he lent at 18% in 1980-84.

      I am concerned about outlaw taxation based upon the New American theory.

      The best 1500 acre Krogel Ranch in Dixonville, near where I grew up went to tax sale for 1800.00 in 1940. Can that happen again – no way all say. Krogels had the first automobile in Douglas county – need to say more.

      Watch out that the tax man cometh to inquire of those that can be forced to make loans to be taken to the needs and uses of the Prince. In essence I am citing The Trial of Thomas Earl of Strafford, Lord lieut. of Ireland. The Framers thought it could never happen again – forced loans, embasement of Coin with Brass, yet I hold a Yellow Brass ‘dollar’ of no value in my hand as we speak.

      If I am wrong I am just a jerk in a warm house who will have to pay the escheat fee to a territorial county/state property tax. If ya’all are wrong we are screwed. I hope ya’all are right even if the debtors are stealing my savings a penny at a time to finance mobocracy.

      Will someone address the sucking sound of mark to market accounting, mark to mark, and the fact that there are trillions of losses that Bernanke hopes he can cure with 00.00 percent central interest and by putting criminal migrants in FHA houses they cannot afford. Take a look – Obama and Hillary just signed on to the U.N. agreement that says that having a home is a RIGHT.

  • mario cavolo August 26, 2010, 11:13 am

    The millions who are credit card indebted are in trouble indeed.

    But there are 100’s of millions of people, not to mention a healthy list of corporations, who are not indebted. They have loads of cash. As the stock market declines they will step in to buy reasonable valuations. They will not wait for market to sink to hell before the do so, to crash to test the 2009 lows before they dollar cost average in. The cash on the sidelines will not wait that long because it has nowhere else to go get yield. Historical comparisons must be adjusted. Goodbye to historical yield comparisons. It doesn’t matter that the S&P500 is now only yielding 2%. The game has changed. The parameters have changed. Dramatically. That will be part of the adjustment, the new set of parameters, today’s normal. Low yields/low interests are the paramount manifesto of the global system we now live in, regardless of how we got here. Absolutely nothing is more important. As long as “they” maintain that, money is cheap to use to make a profit, to build, to rebuild, to parlay, to profit on spreads, etc.

    For the group of ruined Americans, this not about maintaining the status quo, its been destroyed. It is not about the America that was. That’s gone. It is a message of adjusting to your new circumstances. It is at the same time both radical and yet simple and down to earth. Sell your car and all the other crap you don’t really need and start growing your own food. Go local. Your local community is your life and you don’t have a choice anymore. Obtain any government handout or loan that you can apply for. You have time because you don’t have a job and you won’t have a job because there are no jobs. Start selling vegetables on the street, and when the city you live in says you’re not allowed to do that, organize a protest to get the laws changed because you have time.

    But that is not the sad case for the 100’s of millions and corporations who have plenty of cash and no debt in today’s world including many millions of Americans.

    There’s plenty of cash around now including in the American economy. The elitists will respond with their bag of tricks.

    There will be no crash and pray that’s right. Its a silly permabear idea. Relax. Trade. Adjust. Remember…low yields and low interest rates…

    I wonder what this is all really going to look like five years from now.

    • Steve August 26, 2010, 6:42 pm

      Let us say that I have no mortgage.
      Let us say that I have no car loan.
      Let us say that I have no school loan.
      Let us say I don’t have credit cards.

      Every corporation having holdings in the U.S. sell those holdings at current value.

      The U.S. government sells all of its territorial holdings at current value.

      Every American sells his holdings at current value.

      From what I’ve read there is still 400,000.00 owing for each individual ‘person’ against deficit, and off budget under current accounting schemes after everyone has sold everything including North America. Sorry, I used an incorrect term, after every person discharges the debt to another person because one cannot “No State Shall. . .make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in payment of Debts.” New paradigm – ‘discharge’ in exchange for extinguish or “payment”.

      The word person has been presumed to be corporate in nature since the Erie Railroad Doctrine, early 1930’s. So each corporation, and subdivision thereof owes 400,000.00 that cannot be paid off after using their great cash hoards because there is no means to Extinguish under the New Paradigm of escheats of the superior democracy as a distinction to a Free Republic.

      This is the new paradigm of the New Deal based in borrowing fiat 1’s and owing fiat 1.17 under current credit card usury terms. This new paradigm theory has created what ? Lest I stray – control over others is much older than the New Deal. In simple terms:

      Until 1971 one could hold an Allodial Estate and inherit same, being at Liberty.

      Since 1971 under the Law of Escheats one can only pass by discharge a Fee Estate, creating a Lord of Lands in the government in Feudal Law, after paying the tax to inherit because no corporate person enfranchised to the creative power of the master legislative Creator has a privilege of inheritance.

      Inheritance was an Unalienable Right – Liberty assumed where now enfranchisement via debt creating trust in corporate structure is assumed in persons taking the benefit of legalization of that that was unacceptable less than a hundred years ago.

      Two words express the difference in the New Paradigm theory of getting rich through debt.

      People living under the Crown have never held Allodial Estate, or been Allodialists. Liberty under the Crown is highly restricted, as it is under a monarchy in succession like the Bush theory that the office is superior to the Constitution, International Law, and Treaty. Obama did not change anything, he keeps the succession of a Superior Lord alive and well because he ascended to the Lord by escheats in a long succession based upon the book “The Prince”.

      Liberty in the U.S. was restricted only by the Common Law as expressed by Blackstones Commentary on the English Common Law as it became American in 1776.

      Who is left that can buy and extinguish debt, under the New Paradigm, to hold Allodial Title – your current governmental form is at LIBERTY to do so.

      I do not abuse my cattle (all two head). Make no mistake their purpose is to be butchered when time has run its course. I will not butcher both, only the fat steer. I’ll keep the cow because I cannot support both on my land year round.

      I keep my cattle happy because if they worry, or I scare them, or I don’t feed them enough – they will gore me.

      When we talk about things in this forum, we are not the same people who rise to the top in the search for control. High office is power over others. Wealth is power over others. Democracy seeks to conform all to one image, with an illegitimate corporate master. Legislation is power over others. Tyrants ascend, always have, always will. Those who wish to control the masses to their will as one person ascend, always have, always will.

      Every once in awhile I get a steer that is a jerk. Every once in awhile there is a Rouge Elephant. Every once in awhile there are Rouge leaders in society. This is the reality of biology and the Laws of Nature. When I speak of my jerk steer I’m not talking about a steer that just wants to be left alone. I’m talking about a steer that will take me and gore me just for the sake of goring.

      Carol opined that prior to 1971 18 percent interest was a crime. New Paradigm. What does 18 percent criminality do ? What does legislatively legalizing Outlawry do for whom? Does assent to outlawry enfranchise one as part and party to the outlawry of those who legislated 18 percent SHARKING.

      The word Liberty. Are you at liberty to be an allodialist, and if not; why not? Find the answer to that question and one will understand the difference between 1970, and 1971. Man is at Liberty to act. The only question is what will happen when one exercises Liberty. One is at Liberty to take on 17% interest debt by using credit cards. But, it appears to me that Man is no longer at Liberty to hold an Allodial Estate. In the most simple terms an Allodialist is a Free Man owing only to the Common Law not to commit crimes against his Brother by Assault, Breach, Fraud, Theft, and Trespass.

      Mario, what does any person own as an allodialist within China. And will the Chinese allow a unproductive foreigner to remain if said foreigner is not producing that which benefits the government ?

    • Chris T. August 26, 2010, 11:15 pm

      Steve,

      I don’t know about estates, but there has NOT been allodial title for people in the US, period.
      The land was not granted that way from the crown in the 1600s + 1700s, and this was never put in place after.
      It has all been fee-simple, and the few truly allodial lands have either been lost or in the hand of government entities.
      True allodial title would make any eminent domain impossible, let alone taxes on that property or liens based on those unpaid taxes.

      Because the US Constitution does envision some form of eminent domain, and certainly the states’ constitutions do to, you can see that allodial title in the absolute ownership form does not, and has not existed here.
      Too bad BTW, but no amount of grumbling, uprising or revolution will change that alas.

    • Steve August 27, 2010, 1:11 am

      Chris T.

      Grave mistake on Allodial Titles. Websters Dictionary as late as 1828 confirms that most titles in the U.S. are Allodial, as does Blacks Law Dictionary 1828.

      My Dad’s estate purchased in 1946 on the Arron Rose Land Grant was also Allodial, until about 12 years ago when I witnessed an attorney convert the title from the state to this state. Both states defined by Oregon General Laws 1973 as “the State”, and “this state” – interesting factoid – 1973 the year Oregon ratified the 14th Amendment.

      The only question in regard to Land is the Papal Bull that claims the Pope owns everything as Vicar. Why do you think the Pope comes to the U.S. and kisses the Soil, jus Soli ?

      Study the Rights of Conquest – when my family took the cannon and powder to Concord Bridge in 1775, and were Generals before there was a unanimous Declaration.

      Study case Law, Lansing v. Smith – 1789 – The People are the Sovereign with all Rights formerly held by the King.

      Yes, we are denied our inheritance by Escheats in a mobocracy of anarchy.

      Smell the coffee and get the facts straight.

      I have been clear through the Title search for Oregon going back to the Spanish at Hecata Head about 1532.

      No one holds allodial title except the Sovereign. In 1850 We the People were Sovereign with all Rights secured by a Contract Constitution that bound only the beneficiary who took public trust office.

      You are simply wrong – The Law of Escheats says YOU are INCOMPETENT to inherit your birthright.

      Maybe you are more right than me. The People give away that they cannot consent to Alienate. Tyranny

    • Steve August 27, 2010, 2:51 am

      Chris T.

      I hold a 1999 non-statutory Deed recorded in county records – Freehold, Allodial by contract payment with 1 Dollar and other valuable considerations.

      Will you defend my Right, or deny them ?

      And there lies the question on most everything. Will you the people defend my Unalienable Right to be Free ?

      Right now the jury says – buy G-d I have too – there fore you have ta.

      I held the Title through the district Court in 2009, but; once again I am under attack – my question – will you defend, or will you say – I hafta so I’m you hafta.

    • Chris T. August 27, 2010, 8:14 pm

      In this instance the wiki definition is an acceptable one, even when it is unclear.

      The pertinent part is:
      “True allodial title is rare, with most property ownership in the common law world—primarily, the United Kingdom, the United States, …—described more properly as being in fee simple. In particular, land is said to be “held of the Crown” in England…, and there is no allodial land, … in the United States, all land is subject to eminent domain by the federal government, and there is thus no true allodial land. ”

      In the intro, wiki states that:
      “[allodial title] may also be distressed and restrained for collection of taxes or private debts or condemned (eminent domain) by the government.”

      This may sound contradictory, but the concept of true allodial title is one where NO obligation exists at all from that property, and on its own is inalienable, EVEN for eminent domain.
      It can be encumbered by the owner voluntarily, and perhaps involuntarily as a fullfilment of other obligations, but creates no obligations on its own (property taxes).

      When and where in the US did one ever have such ownership of land?
      William Penn did not, the Duke of Baltimore did not, neither did the land-grants by the crown to any other colony.
      The non-commonlaw settlements (Dutch, Swedish, French) that preceded the common law rule do not know the concept at all.
      Where in US legal history, thus not before 1776, really 1787, did such a regime get conveyed to individuals?
      Instead, the states’ own constitutions, as the federal one, contain the concept of eminent domain, which shows clearly that there is NO true allodial title to land in the US.
      If it was never there at the outset, and was never explicitly granted after the beginning, how could it have been lost in over the last 200 years?

      Just because a scheme may use the word “allodial” does not make it true allodial title, if that same scheme accepts the states’ right to eminent domain.

      Only taking about real property = land, not movable real property such as cars…

  • JohnJay August 26, 2010, 6:03 am

    My take on high credit card interest rates:
    1) Much the same as the people that took interest only loans on bloated real estate, people using high interest credit cards never plan to actually pay back the money.
    2) Thanks to miracle of accrual accounting, the credit card companies never plan to actually collect the interest, only accrue the interest as revenue to show never ending profits.
    3) So we have a never ending game of “Dueling Grifters” between the banks and the deadbeats, all with the approval of the Federal Government.
    Just look at the games being played with Fannie/Freddie/FHA paper by the Treasury and the Fed, same scenario.
    Honest, frugal people like the ones on this website are never in that game, and most likely pay off their CC balance every month and would not use liar loans to buy 10 houses.
    Still fun to watch and comment on the ongoing Mad Hatter Tea Party our economy has become!

  • Erin August 26, 2010, 5:16 am

    This scheme is another in a long line of the transfer of wealth programs run by the fed and the bankers…With prime rates so low it is just another way for the scumbags to steal from the peasants…These credit card rates seemingly always followed the prime rate for the most part yet now things are different…Where is the outrage from our fearless socialist leader who is all about protecting the consumers from the big bad bankers that we bailed out? To be honest, I just want the socialist and everyone in congress except for ron paul to go to far, far, away land and never come back. Is that really too much to ask? The only thing I have ever wanted from the leaders of our country is to protect the value of the dollar and keep our borders safe and leave us the hell alone. So much for that!!!

  • Cameroni August 26, 2010, 4:33 am

    Those are high rates.

    I think we have a classic supply and demand scenario playing out if card rates are indeed on the rise. Credit after all is contracting throughout the economy. Prices rising to meet higher demand and to offset the associated risks of default make sense to me.

    Other than store credit cards which were designed to build loyalty to a single retailer and thus drive business there, plastic offered by the likes of Visa and Mastercard are not generally designed for the business of offering credit to stimulate buying. Those companies are in the business of making a profit on their own capital and a premium off convenience.

    Boom times just offer an opportunity to be more profitable with smaller margins and a large customer base. As consumption has declined significantly over the past few years though this is now impacting on bottom lines and so it follows rates need to rise to offset those changes. Furthermore, risk has increased.

    As an example, this has been notable lately in regards to mortgages where homeowners have simply stopped paying and are defaulting strategically. Although I don’t have the details I will assume that all credit is suffering collateral damage at this time. Again, it would seem to make sense that rates would rise on that news.

    I don’t like credit. Never have. I swore off cards years ago, got debt free, and have steadfastly refused to participate except with the occasional short-term prepaid card. It is strictly for convenience. When done, I just chuck em. Of course the ex always had one handy. (Not a very good reason to get back together though).

    Your news that rates are on the rise just reconfirms in my mind that suckers game of revolving monthly credit, taking from Peter to pay Paul and covering long term debt obligations with the convenience of high priced short term debt is a game I should stay out of.

    Plastic be damned.

  • SDavid August 26, 2010, 12:50 am

    I know eventually Peter (Uncle Sam) will have to pay Paul (insert the country of your choice, but the flavor of the day seems to be China).

    And what if we all throw a depression party and no one joins us?

    Yes, I KNOW where we are heading.

    And I’ve also learned the axiom that the markets can be wrong for a lot longer than most of us have money.

    Will the markets implode tomorrow? The next day? How many were calling for an end to the American dream last year or the year before that or even a decade ago?

    And what do any of us have to gain from it?

    Absolutely nothing.

    Except that we will have a whole lot more of nothing than everyone else.

    The individuals responding on Rick’s forums are light years ahead of the average individual on an intellectual scale and therein lies the problem:

    What is the point of “educating” like-minded individuals here?

    And what if we are all wrong at this point in time?

    Even with the pullback the last few moths, not many of us could have imagined a rally to this extent a year and a half ago.

    Yet, here we are.

    Is there something to be gained with the SPX below 600 and gold at $2500 or $3,000 or more?

    What would that be?

    • cosmo August 26, 2010, 8:50 pm

      What is to be gained is a return to sanity, like it or not. The world as it is currently and projected to consume resources is unsustainable, especially if you consider 1)population growth, in general and 2)India and China wanting to live in the prosperity of the West. How can anyone tell these countries that have lived in poverty forever that they are not entitled to live like kings? The only way is to make it too expensive to do so, hence, inflation.

      On the other hand, there is a derivatives bubble in numbers that are beyond comprehension, in a market that is unregulated, OTC, and non-transparent. It was threatened in 2008, the confidence game was at stake, and $Trillions were put up to save it, for now. How much will it take to save it next time?

      I see the financial world today as a rubber band being pulled by these two forces, which is why smart people on both sides cannot agree to an outcome. The rubber band has not broken.. yet.

      I, along with others here, see an inevitable snapping of that rubber band which no one can say how or when it will happen…but happen it must for the world to realize that the current path is a road to destruction. It will be painful, people will lose everything they own, and perhaps millions will die.

      I am not old enough to experience Europe at the end of WWII, but I get the feeling they decided as a whole they didn’t want to do THAT again and forgave each other and formed the EU. It may not be perfect, it may not last, it is just an experiment, just as the USA is just a longer lasting experiment(of which a return to the Constitution would prolong). Things evolve and change in ways no one can foresee and will continue to do so.

      To me,on one level, there is an Awakening in the world in a truly spiritual nature to see yourself in your so called enemy, to desire peace above all else. On the other is the stupidity demonstrated in NYC about a mosque and the fundaMENTAL opposition to it. It shows the intolerance of the conditioned masses and divides people, provokes conflict. This is another rubber band that is being stretched and could be the impetus to snap the other.

      I foresee, after all the damage is done and the sleeping are buried, an Awakened humanity that can live in peace, with tolerance to others and war may finally be forgotten.

      The Bankers are the ones that will either live, by taking total control of a one world govt in a New World Order or die, by the Awakened abolishing Central Banking.

      Gold has the properties of a lasting currency and has been for thousands of years. Fiat currency has a 100% failure rate.

      14.7% interest rates are a non-issue…but thanks Rick, I love you, man
      Peace