“Asian Money Will Eventually Revive the U.S.”

[The commentary that follows elicited a deluge of fascinating responses, and so I am letting it run for a second day.  Frequent contributors to the Rick’s Picks forum were asked where the U.S. economy would be in five years. Below, Mario Cavolo, an expatriate whose business is based in Shanghai, says Chinese wealth is clamoring for bargains in the U.S. and that a falling dollar will bring enormous Asian investment to our shores, infusing the U.S. economy with new vitality.  The bad news is that large swaths of the American middle class will be devastated by the shifting economic landscape, unable to take advantage of the opportunities that voracious demand from foreigners will create. RA]

On treating the theme Rick put forth for this recent series of contributing articles, it would be best to start with the fascinating and accurate point he makes that the “jig is already up,” as opposed to being a situation we think we are still attempting to put off.  There are far too many complex pieces to the puzzle across not only America but the entire global markets, so intricately interconnected, making it foolhardy to suggest their status or direction. I would suggest we can agree on a few core points giving us a sense of where we will be in five years and with that in mind, let’s say we have some very good news and some very bad news. No matter how many points we cover, there will be dozens of other points and counterpoints not touched, requiring a 600-page book to cover it all respectably. Yet, with regard to the core points put forth in this treatment, each of us needs to consider what possible moves, what choices, what adjustments he or she might make looking forward to their future from today — not as being a person who happens to live in a certain state in the United States, but as a person who lives on planet Earth. 

The Very Good News

Five years from now, the year 2016 will mark the beginning of America’s recovery. That is very good news. All countries go through long-term economic cycles that must be respected. Make no mistake, America, with all of her problems, with all of her incompetent, greedy, irresponsible, elite leaders, with all of her deeply flawed banking and trading practices, is still a powerhouse — is still by far the world’s largest economy, a resilient and dynamic force in the world politically, economically and militarily. Add it up. Rome will not burn while Nero fiddles. Rome will transform, Rome will reshape, Rome will respond. Rome will never stop being Rome. Rome will always be a powerhouse on the global economic and political stage. That is America now and in five years. Maybe not for reasons you think, nor like, nor appreciate, nor agree with. Too bad. Indeed, they didn’t ask you, and less and less is your power to get involved in any of it in a meaningful way.

If this is my vision and position, that five years hence marks the beginning of recovery in America, I must offer core reasons supporting the argument. What will be the catalysts to change? Indeed, as a falling euro would make me want to take my true love to Europe for the month, a falling dollar makes me want to choose America instead. In five years the USD index will be sitting in a new-low range of 60-70. The argument that a further falling dollar will cause inflation doesn’t matter because on the Asia Pacific side, there is inflation too. Inflation is inflation for everyone and it is nothing new. There will be wild asset-swings along the way but as the dollar falls, foreign interest and money will roll in on a broad scale. The trend is already in place and now I move the romantic argument of where I can have my cheapest holiday to the business front, sharing the story of the InvestAmerica event which recently took place here in Shanghai at the Grand Hyatt in Pudong.  In this world, the world most Americans don’t spend time thinking about, is the world of “invest in America.”  Amen to that. Amen to the Chinese who are so filthy rich with cash that a tour group of 50 needs four hours to make it through customs because every one of them is carrying a bag of cash they need to declare — cash which, by the way, is mostly likely uncounted in China’s GDP figures. For the rich Chinese who can easily invest USD $500,000- $1,000,000 in the EB-5 investment visa residence program. Do you think they are investing in Malaysia, where they can get a green card by investing only $35,000? Of course not. They want America. They love and want many of the great things about America.

One Rises, Other Declines

It is not farfetched to recognize the rise of one region of the world balancing the decline of another. This is expected in the course of longer term economic and societal cycles. Let me tell you bluntly: Even as America has her problems, to any Chinese, an American passport or green card is the holy grail of freedom. The word for America in Chinese is “Mei Guo,” which means beautiful country, and the newly rich Chinese want America. They see it and they will buy America piece by piece, ranging from macro banks to local houses and stores. They will own more and more of it. As Europeans came in the early 1900’s, the Chinese will come in our age. They don’t need to cross the border illegally without money as many from Mexico because they have plenty of money. They, the Chinese, the Asians, will diversify American society with a rising percentage of Chinese and Asia population because in the future America will be the place to be once again. But in fact, even now America is already the place to be for the “new” crop of immigrating Americans from rising Asia led by China. They are thrilled to be capitalizing on America’s problems, to be buying up America’s assets on the cheap. They would expect American government to start offering more and more legal incentives and breaks to attract more investment; and indeed, that trend is already in place.

If you think Donald Trump getting his breaks to invest in a declining New York City was a big deal, imagine 100,000 Chinese Donald Trumps doing the same thing. Let’s note that, according to Forbes magazine’s 2011 list of billionaires, the U.S. leads the world with 413, up from 403 last year. China now has 115, but that’s up almost 50% from 64. At the USD millionaire level, the number of Chinese millionaire households is reported to be 670,000.  But Rupert Hoogewerf, founder of the Hurun report, and I agree that those numbers are still off by half, mostly due to the enormous amount of hidden wealth in greater China. The other significance of the point is that the vast majority are newly wealthy and have the “conquer the world” attitude that goes with new wealth. So then, some have asked, why would they invest in America? For two reasons, both strong and intertwined; because they are pragmatic opportunists who love a bargain, and because they still see all the advantages and great things about America through a romantic eye, even with the current issues upon us. They keenly have their eye on America — trust me, believe me, they do. They see China’s problems, all the rottenness of China as clearly as most readers at Rick’s site see the rottenness of America. And so they have a very high level of interest to diversity, to protect themselves via such diversification as establish life and business and investment across the Pacific in America. Be thankful for the economic power that the rise of Asia led by China will bring to America’s shores in the coming years, in her time of need, in her need to recover from an unprecedented — and yes, shameful — debt hangover. The next five years will be rough but will gradually also build the foundational trends over the next five years leading to rebuilding, restructuring and new opportunities that will emerge. This incoming wave to America also applies at the academic level. Who are the high scoring students in college? The Chinese, the Asians. Where do they want to study more than anywhere else? America.

Verdict: bye-bye world?  No.  It’ll be Asia Saves The Day As The Dollar Falls to Attractive Levels. Five years from now, today’s declining America is well on the road to recovery due to the continuing trend of a falling dollar with rising inflow of interest and investment, much of it from economically rising Asia led by China. Doomsday for the USD? Nonsense. Never. Ridiculous. All assets, economies and systems are far too intertwined. By the way, much the same for the state of affairs in Europe; declining situation for so many, but the euro isn’t going to dissolve.

The Very Bad News

The very bad news is that before America’s meaningful recovery begins in five years, encouraged by a falling dollar with rising incoming foreign interest and investment, the jig is already up, the decline is already in place and it is falling squarely on the middle class of America right now. It is infuriating, it is shameful. Over the next five years, the decline will continue. Products and services around them will become more expensive, while opportunities to improve life and career will continue to decline. The jump across the canyon to the more secure side of the society will grow wider and wider.  This subject can be expanded upon from endless points of view.

The solution for those in the wrong place at the wrong time — for anyone who does not have money but has a sufficiently entrepreneurial spirit combined with desperate need, is to focus on how to sell anything to the people who do have the money, including the incoming Chinese. This is why all of us remind Washington to beef up the National Exports Initiative program, purposely focusing on exports to greater China, build exports, build up new manufacturing sector, creating jobs. That’s a genuine by-the-book solution. (Note to readers: greater China includes mainland, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan.)  The trick will be to identify the more secure upper-middle and upper-income people who are buying; to find out what they need and want; and to do your darndest to position yourself to sell it to them. Since your job prospects are miserable, you may as well give it a go, including partnering up in small groups to form small companies, opening stores on Amazon, Alibaba, Taobao, etc. Identify what the incoming Asian money is investing in, and figure out a business plan — a project to offer them to do business with you. This does not help the many middle-class folks who are not inclined toward or capable of moving forward. For the group of 50-100 million lower- and middle class Americans who are truly stuck, the budget retail industry will flourish, supported by government programs, continuously expanding food stamps and other social support programs, so that they can at least get by. Walgreen’s 2-for-1s and Filiberto’s fresh-but-really-cheap burritos mark the budget lifestyle. This aspect marks the rise of the lower-income Asian lifestyle in America by necessity: families sharing residences, renting out rooms, eating  basic low-cost meals consisting of noodles, rice, meat, beans, veggies. Second cars will continue to decrease in numbers while bicycle and scooter counts will rise. Merchant thinking will rise and small, cheap-to-open local stores and flea markets will pop up, like the shop-houses of Latin America and Asia. As covered here earlier, more will go to gardens, fresher and cheaper, for food. Meanwhile, taxes for the rich must and will rise.

Verdict:  America becomes a completely different place than it was, marked by the decline of the middle class, making the next five years amongst the worst in American economic history for that strata of the country. Yet, the rest of the population and society, as if one could easily imagine that vivid separation and marginalization, continues to thrive, with plenty of wealth and job security to weather the economic storms.

Food, Oil Can’t Go Much Higher

Meanwhile, more on the equity and economic side of the picture in five years. The S&P will roller-coaster but end up close to where it is now, if not 20% higher. Same for the Hong Kong/China indexes. Interest rates will rise, but not by much – and so will oil, because the world economy cannot withstand oil at too high a price. The ag commodities have peaked now and won’t be higher five years hence. These items won’t be higher because they can’t be higher.  The gold/silver complex will continue to rise toward those $2000/$100 targets or more. The Chinese RMB will still not be a free-floating trading currency. The rich elite are greedy but not so stupid as to ruin it for themselves.  And so, returning to a statement I made in Rick’s forum many months earlier: In the face of potentially higher USD, Treasury and other bond yields worldwide, pieces of the sovereign debts, pensions, Social Security, etc. will be somehow set aside, forgiven, defaulted, dissolved off the books, renamed, re-categorized, hidden, re-classified, adjusted with more mark-to-market type shenanigans – whatever.  They’ll make new choices, new policy announcements as needed, to keep the global economic system going. They’ll make those choices as needed at the time to avert “disaster”. 

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  • alex marts April 12, 2011, 3:25 am

    shoot them between those egly eyes

  • alex marts April 12, 2011, 3:24 am

    kill the asian, they are like a cancer.Im glad i killed a lot of them in vet. kill the vc bastards

  • Ruvell April 10, 2011, 3:38 pm

    PgIimo In awe of that answer! Really cool!

  • joe-6 March 31, 2011, 2:32 pm

    Mario—
    With all due respect you are in the China business. You lay out exactly how much you are in your March 31, 2011 at 2:58 am post. So of course you are a cheerleader for some kind of China/USA integration plus you live in China and got your mind Shanghaied there. I don’t know you but you are married to a native? So this is why you have this “bridge across two cultures” ideology?

    I am not in your business. I live in America. On American soil in an American built house. Last thing I want is a bunch of foreigners of any kind buying up America. They could be Brits, Chinese or Norwegians. What you see as foreign investment I see as a foreign takeover and colonialism. What a pity I am the only poster who thinks this way. We would have lost WW2 thinking your way. I am only 10 years older than you my friend. You are ridiculous and have “gone native” due to living there so long. We both know how Chinese steal tech from any American factory set up there plus a 50% princeling or connected Chinese partner is required. Yet you expect Americans to joyfully submit to Chinese in ways that today’s China never would. The Chinese did submit 150 years and got colonized. They were weaker back then and are now in payback mode.

    I find your outlook spaced out and devoid of any and all historical perspective. But it seems you have lots of company while I have the patriotic perspective. Harsh but that is how I see it

  • mario cavolo March 31, 2011, 3:37 am

    Good Morning All, (8:30am here in Shanghai)

    Let’s humanize this. My pregnant wife asked me 30 minutes ago to go out and get her the local egg/pancake breakfast she likes from favorite street vendor Mrs. Yan. We live a one minute stroll to the nearby subway line in a lovely, older local neighborhood. As volumes of people stream to the subway, street vendors have their portable breakfast carts out, think New York hot dog stands but much older and dirtier with big, rusty crooked wheels. Mrs. Yan looks to you and me from a Western point of view as a hard-working street person..frumpy, unkempt, worn down, uneducated. She is all of the above, probably can’t write Mandarin.

    Mrs. Yan kicks ass. She does it every day for perhaps the past 15 years. She serves up 200 of her one minute fast, fresh pancake/egg crepe things from her coal fired stove top on wheels every morning at 3rmb each, that’s US $.46 each. Her costs, my wife and I calculate is less than $.15. She repeats this feat in the afternoon. So our frumpy Mrs. Yan has been earning $120/day every day seven days a week for countless years. Add it up; $3600/month CASH. She is far richer than most living in her 70sqm apt with her husband who probably had a salaried job as an engineer at $300/month for the past 20 years.

    With monthly expenses of around $600, Mr. & Mrs. Yan have socked away $360,000 USD in ten years.

    Mrs. Yan hides her cart in the apt garden behind the gate at 9am because that’s when the police come on duty and might otherwise come and take her stuff because she is in fact, an unlicensed business. In some places the police are more vigilant about preventing unlicensed businesses and street vendors, for the simple fact that they don’t pay any taxes. That is reasonable, if the taxes are reasonable, which they are. But in cities of 10-15 million people, this way of merchant street life thrives on.

    Now, wash, rinse, repeat MILLIONS of times across China and other emerging market countries where the merchant lifestyle is the root of the lower/middle class and INVISIBLE CASH IS KING.

    Now you understand? You bother to note reported GDP figures on China? This is what America went away from. Plus, manufacturing went away, plus the banking shenanigans and bad governance. So now what? Big trouble for America.

    And in that big trouble will come some, note the word some, of Mrs. Yan’s $360,000 CASH to America, because she just wants to give herself and her children options – not perfect options, but reasonable options and choices. Now raise the scale of this to the new far richer Chinese people and companies who are doing the same thing, looking to spread their wealth, give themselves options, expand their investment opportunities across the globe. Like any good business person. I don’t think we should all read too much more into it.

    Let’s not forget the story starts with Mrs. Yan churning out $.40 egg crepe things, like a little factory day in and day out, keeping her mouth shut and doing her thing.

    Dear Mrs. Yan, the nice local foreigner guy with the pregnant wife is writing about you at an investment advisory website that reaches across the globe discussing some of the most critical issues and trends of the socio-political and economic landscape.

    What a world. I really should start video vignettes of this stuff…

    Cheers, Mario

  • joe-6 March 30, 2011, 8:54 pm

    I don’t want more Chinese and Asian investment on US soil. This means we are employees on Asian plantations and factories here. This means Asians get the profits and Americans get the peon jobs. This is colonialism. I don’t want Asian overlords. I am a nationalist who loves America. I must be deficient in worshiping free markets and free flows of capitol and labor the way Mario Cavalo does.

    Mario thrives from this situation so he promotes it. He is in the business. How much more obvious does it get?

    • redwilldanaher March 31, 2011, 2:51 am

      Hi Joe, with all due respect my guess is that you love what may once have been America. That America no longer exists and hasn’t for some time. America is now a giant zombie robot that’s remotely controlled by “controllers” bent on raping and pillaging everyone and everything to order things as they see fit.

    • mario cavolo March 31, 2011, 2:58 am

      Huh? You misread me Joe-6. I grew up middle-class and I’m no high ‘n mighty in the world my friend. I neither worship nor thrive from the subjects of which I write. In my own observation of what I believe I do, that’s it; I observe and write about the reality I observe and I allow for both sides in doing so, with my own perspective biased toward the bright side because I live in a country that is all around me mostly improving and developing, not declining, as a society.

      Regarding the theme of this article, and in general, I neither “thrive” nor “worship” nor care either way on what I report. I’ve had my ass kicked plenty in this life and at 50 years old my rose-colored glasses are off. I live in Shanghai and do strategic corporate advisory and coaching for execs of multinational companies, I run a blog and write on current affairs often relating to China. I also am involved in media, I do media/PR advisory, training, emceeing events/shows and play jazz piano, often as part of those events. So with that work background, I hope my views will be published as an author, in that way I would benefit, but otherwise, I have no vested interest in the things I observe including the inflow of Asian money into the U.S. for investment and EB-5 visa benefits as the economic landscape continues to shift.

      And, Joe-6, two cold pints at the end of the day is sometimes the perfect way to sit in my little planted garden and chill…

      Cheers, Mario

    • mario cavolo March 31, 2011, 3:04 am

      RWD makes a very important point, of which I ask how much is AWARENESS is there? America is not the place my grandparents immigrated to, it has been destroyed by extreme individualism, primarily by the destruction of family/marriage, plus the economic shenanigans which have ruined the middle class for the benefit of the richer richer and politicians/bureaucrats, lobbyists, and now it is still morphing into what the hell to call it I do not know, but it ain’t pretty for a huge part of the country that once was the hub of the country, the root of the country, middle class, middle class families….that is no longer the America that was exactly as RWD points once again. In this sense, all this article says is that moving forward, there will be more and more Asian money moving into America over the coming years as she wades painfully through this economic and societal cycle. Now must argue however, insist in fact, that we see two sides. For the lower and middle class, it is worse, but there is that group of around 100 million Americans who are richer than ever and thriving in the current environment. I cannot say we should begrudge them who are in that situation for their benefit, including many here.

      Cheers, Mario

  • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 6:48 pm

    Don’t forget, all, that there’s always a process going on: foreigner->Yankee->Luddite in 3 generations.

    various people are steeped to different degrees in various cult cultures; yet all become Americanized at some rate; even as population gets Ludditized, by sheer scale.

    Asians in general seem less cultish than european immigrants, and all are far less cultish than any/all of the ethnic/religious cults from the middle east. I, personally, am with Thomas Paine: “I disbelieve them all”, and put my bet on unpredictable group methodology yet to come.

    There are always surprises, in addition to the minor Hidden Pivots we expect. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be here. The future lies with audacity, not with measures of what anyone presently has (barring audacity). Luckily, we needn’t depend on Asia for audacity. If it gets to that point, I’ll willingly trade all YOU guys for more audacious people, regardless of where they’re from. 🙂 (Isn’t that how we made the USA?)

    • Steve March 30, 2011, 7:52 pm

      I don’t know Roger? Are you speaking of the united
      States, or the UNITED STATE corporate mobocracy? Do you forget China Town, the Hug Society, the Viet closed community, and all other separate Asian cultures on Our Soil who are against intermarriage and intermingling ? The biggest error in thinking is that there is something other than racial separation – Asian American, African American, Irish American, French American, some other thing than a National Separated Culture. The Census does everything it can to prevent the melting of social identity into one American Nation. Look up the words Country, and Nation. We are a race separated country, not a Nation.

      Please be concise with what you are stating here:

      “If it gets to that point, I’ll willingly trade all YOU guys for more audacious people, regardless of where they’re from.”

      If this means what it seems to mean – I have some words for you personally.

    • Steve March 30, 2011, 8:09 pm

      I must admit to you Roger that I did not know the meaning of Luddite, so looked it up. The comparison between the disappearance of a trade ‘luddite burning of mechanical looms’, and the social nature of Liberty is pretty much a stretch that cannot be bridged except by new frosted marxism.

  • Steve March 30, 2011, 6:32 pm

    With all due respect for your work Mario, and the great discussions you provoke. Based in the quote below I must ask how much Natural Selection, and Selective Breeding plays a part in this discussion? I also don’t know your National perspective, or history to establish how much Natural Selection and Selective Breeding is a part of who you are and how your mental filter works. The filter of our experiences, and our family experiences governs how each of us view the information incoming to us.

    “There is almost zero politeness, the idea of courtesy is exception not rule, yet again, they don’t regard each other as rude at all. Simply that you and I are equal in our task to get from point A to point B, we are both concerned only with ourselves, trying to get where we need to get, so why should either of us be upset? At the grocery store, clerks don’t say hello or thank you to a customer. They just ring up the stuff, that’s their job.”

    It appears your human premise of Chinese is that all are “. . .equal. . .concerned only with ourselves. . . trying to get. . .need. . .that’s their job. . .”.

    Natural Selection in a govenmental form as old as the Chinese creates a more unified organisim that has not know Liberty for 5000 + years. There are levels of control from the top down to a headman over a select percentage/number of drone workers who are expected to do XYZ. XYZ represents the masses. The top man is only concered with ‘order’, and an ‘orderly way’; which denies individualism, in favor of collectivism. The individual is allowed to be concerned for self only as far that that is a part of the greater collective purpose. The spirit of Liberty raises up in all cultures. The Chinese in order to make things orderly crush, by violent means, anyone who makes a stand, and have successfully done so for 5000 years +/-. What is the saying – a nail who’s head is above the deck will be hammered down. 5000 years of selective breeding, resulting in Natural Selection of a clan that obeys the will of the Royal Class, be that alleged Devine, or at the hands of a Warlord.

    Any attempt to compare the social fabric of the Chinese, the social fabric of illegal immigrants, and the social fabric of the People who have stood for Liberty for 6,000 years is an impossible task. Time has a way of infringing away the filters of the mind, and history. Thus, over time the mind who sought Liberty is pushed by others who came later, who take by deception what the few created by their blood.

    All wars are economic via its many forms of practice. Most all international trade is a war, which now heads to One Grand Order – only the new god Obama, or Hu undecided. The untied States has passed from a Free Repubic supporting individual Liberty to a democracy which is ripe to be taken by the superior force of money or arms. Eventually arms will be born against any person in the U.S. who’s head sticks up above the deck. Arms are now born against anyone internationally with no regard to The Law of Nations, Treaty, or Convention. The U.N. sanctions outlawry by agreement not to prosecute each other for the war crimes committed to form a New Order, and Orderly Way.

    Selective Breeding of the Chinese for 5000 years primes them to accept the New Order without concern. Missionaries will head out into the new world to buy houses, buy small business, and express dharma tollerance of a new order where the well being of the whole world is the leading premise of governmental form. Individualism will be crushed by economic means, or by the war machine. As I filter your words Mario I see the great New Order comming to life by the use of Chinese missionaries sent to the States to buy up and sell tollerance and the alleged great value of the individual Chinese buying homes, and businesses, and starting new manufacturing with new money for America. These who accept Dharma must learn to get from point A to point B, and to do so without emotion.

    The Chinese people are bred, and hammered, to only do what is good for the “order” of China, and to proceed in an “orderly way” to do missioinary work under the theory of dharma in bringing money stateside to ‘help’ the American People from Liberty, to find Order, and to find an Orderly way of life and working. Patience is working, and the oriental is far more patient than other people.

    The DNA bred to value Liberty in the united States has been overcome by masses of immigrants who refuse to make a Stand in their home nation. The wealth stored up in Liberty has given way to the security of being the same, and getting the same – no emotion – it is just my job. ‘Iworker’ is the same as everyone working to get to point A from point B because that is my job, just like 1 billion other bottom rung workers. From what I seen of Chinese news, when a upper supervision makes a mistake in regard to milk, or lead – he is executed.

    I am a direct decsendant of the American Revolution. I am by Clan a Highlander, who’s People make claims via the Declaration of Arbroath A.D. 1320, and to the
    exodus of bondage. I am skip generational, in that my dad was 35 when I came, and his 38, and his 50, when a child quickened in the womb. We were in Maryland 1688, Virginia 1740, Kentucky 1789, Ohio 1812, Oregon 1840.

    Do not worry Mario. My kind are dead and dying – we have no use in mobocracy, or in acceptance of Chinese missionary work buying up houses and claiming to come for American Liberty via Dharma. There is 1 order for China and for Chinese people – all people acting for the well being of society, for the greater good, in the Order ascribed by Hu, or Bamer. The New Order must come, and it is coming under the same theory always used, via missioinary work. Only this time the theory is that the Chinese missionary sent here by Hu is somehow going to save Liberty and America by buying up everything before the Chinese model of society is imposed, or supplants Liberty.

    I do not believe the China Rich Man is coming in Dharma to create anything other than the “Order”, and “Orderly Way” of Chinese Society. One can cite Loche, but; Locke is only a missionary sent to soften the heart so that the wolf will not be recognized when he come in an orderly way to buy up, and then impose the way of order on the sheep. The Rams will be killed because they know the wolf – make no mistake – that is the China way.

    • mario cavolo March 31, 2011, 3:53 am

      Morning Steve,

      Try to give you a simple answer. Yes, definitely a collectivist mentality here but with blossoming more and more individual freedom and opportunity than ever before. Beijing is in a precarious position of allowing a blossoming society but not to get too out of hand. Even tougher for them with the expansion of the internet/social media. They allow far more, open public opinion now, for example, headline articles in mags about gays/lesbians in China, articles about the promotion of the new Bishop in the Catholic Church, articles about China’s many problems, reality shows copying those in the West, these all flourish in the media and Chinese web more than ever before. So while America has gone too extreme to individualism, China had been too extreme to collectivism and is moving aggressively toward the middle, in what I am observing.

      I have to take issue with some of the extremes you suggest in your descriptions, there is some truth in the observations, but I can only suggest partial weight. Chinese society is better than ever in allowing and creating individual opportunity. This cannot be refuted. The people heading out aren’t missionaries, they’re just individuals trying to expand and improve their lives.

      On this: “From what I seen of Chinese news, when a upper supervision makes a mistake in regard to milk, or lead – he is executed.”

      Yes. Its not a mistake, it was greed/bribery most likely and when a leader does it and gets caught, byebye. If you have perpetrated damage against the society, byebye. So if you took kickbacks to allow an inferior or tainted product that hundreds of thousands of babies drank, oh yes, byebye. Everyone knows the rules. Like Singapore, do not throw gum in the street. If you get caught, pay $500. Vandalize a car, get caned. Remember that story a few years back? You know the rules, extreme as they are. This gives clear ability to understand, along with no guns, why crime is so low in China.

      Cheers, Mario

  • ben March 30, 2011, 6:04 pm

    I totally disagree with the notion that the Chinese will be coming to America to invest in the coming years, as well as the idea that Chinese are so enamored of America. The USA is actually viewed as enemy #1 in China. The country is steeped in nationalism and is looking to invest in China not here. Perhaps they want to secure natural resources here to send back home, but really…there are much better values closer to home, and besides, the USA has done a pretty good job over the past hundred years of using up our resources. Why would a Chinese businessman open up a factory in the USA with the 1000% higher labor costs and 10000% more government regulations to deal with? China has a a source of dirt cheap labor at home that is a few magnitudes greater than the entire US population.

    And does the USA really need China’s dollars? We are the ones who are able to print them and digitally put them into existence with the press of a button on a keyboard. The Chinese can take their dollars and use them in the fireplace to keep their homes warm in winter. If they have any intelligence, they’ll unload their dollars anyplace but in the USA. Every time China tried to spend a few bucks taking over an American company the political backlash was tsunami-like: much better to discreetly sprinkle those dollars around the globe than pour them onto the market here. If Americans got any sense of a Chinese (economic) takeover of the country, there would be great political pressure to inflate the dollar and put all sorts of roadblocks to China’s ownership of anything here.

    Sadly, America is not a desirable place to build a business and will have almost nothing to offer the world once our little green pieces of paper are valued close to their intrinisic value. We allowed all our factories, machines and means of production to rust out or be shipped to places in the world where people can actually produce real things at a profit. We’ll still have a few places with nice weather and pretty blondes, and perhaps in those places real estate will still be desirable. When I went to the Waikiki Strip a few years ago, Japanese septuagenarians were the studs with blondes walking on either side of them, while the young guys with the big pecs were the losers carrying just their surf boards. Maybe some money will pour in from Asia into the hotel, casino, and sex industries…but a rush to “invest” in America…I’d have to say no way in hell.

  • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 2:11 pm

    I’d say that the root problem we’re all facing is simply – yet exasperatingly – one of SCALE. The USA is a historical niche where audacious people came to invent. Along the way, we consciously traded much local family, clan & tribal methodology, in return for novel national methodology. The results were spectacular. However, after 200 years, many note that flexibility & kinetics of our Constitutional Methodolgy fail to match the ever scaling demands of context. We know we cannot change without tuning our methodology. US citizens simply have group options to explore, and group decisions: to be predominantly Luddites, or to win an adaptive rate race by exploring more group options, faster. Our chief decision is what methodology to use in order to actively manage the Luddite/adapter ratio.

  • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 2:08 pm

    > Mario: they will buy America piece by piece

    Yet they can’t buy our public initiative, or group intelligence, UNLESS we willingly give it to them. Group capital increases in any group that sticks together (by ANY means), and declines in any group that doesn’t. The art is in compounding the return on group intelligence, not just hoarding it.

    > Robert: [group goals?] Like what? Going to the moon?

    If that’s all you can think of, yes, I’d sell out to foreigners. There are, however, infinite options. Capital value tracks speed in selecting the next transient value to utilize. There’s a Hidden Pivot in all thinking patterns, and you need to know when one train of thought isn’t going to pan out while another one will.

    > Mario: [assuming worthwhile group goals = ] worthwhile societal goals [implying social equality goals?]

    Mario, you seem to be jumping to uselessly limiting conclusions. There are infinite group goals to pursue, but they can be ranked per a hiearchy of return-on-coordination. We cannot predict what form those goals might take, but we damn well better know how to realign to pursue them. Otherwise we should dissolve the USA and all become citizens of other countries.

    > rmsimc: the govt MUST get out of the way

    Why this myth that the govt is someone other than us? I can agree with the statement that we should always get out of our own way. A simpler form is to say the following:
    When uncertainties arise:
    Luddites reduce exposure, to retreat into known risks.
    Adapters adjust methods that transorm uncertainty into risk.
    Surviving groups readjust the optimal ratio of Luddites/adapters to context SOONER than losing groups. [There are Hidden Pivots always visible in the political metrics of those group decisions.]

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 3:59 pm

      As you say “Otherwise we should dissolve the USA and all become citizens of other countries.”

      This point has significant implications…we see America becoming a completely different place than it was with the bankers in charge so to speak, as Thomas Jefferson feared. So as the years roll on from this point, what kind or form of a “country” is America transforming into? It doesn’t look very good…

  • Dennis March 30, 2011, 8:10 am

    “Asian Money Will Eventually Revive the U.S.”

    And this is to make us feel better?

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 9:48 am

      Dear All,

      My huge thanks to each of you; with respect to the article and string of comments, what a great body of work as discussion, approach and argument; to make us think, make us know, to be aware of what is happening from all sides that may be meaningful, valuable, worth knowing; things we might otherwise not think of or realize.

      This is all part of Rick’s place…like a vibrant jazz bar gathering place in my imagination. In terms of my ability to think of, to layout and to express my own thoughts in such writings, it is accurate to say I have cut my teeth right here over this 2 1/2 years participating in Rick’s forum with all of you. Thank you Rick. Better than any MBA…

      I am fascinated to notice a repeat theme in the thread this time around; its really weird to me how the scenario I laid out has been referred to as gentle or rosy or pollyanna or will, infuse with new vitality. Heck, I also wrote that other substantial section about how there is a huge, ugly price to pay in what is happening; that that price is being paid dearly by one of the largest, most important and influential group of people in the world to now, the American lower and middle class. I did write that! Nothing rosy about it gents.

      Remember: Chinese conduct business quietly, the more under the radar and quieter the better. They are silently rich, have silently saved for a rainy day for years beyond belief and that rainy day is here right now, isn’t it? On any day anywhere in the world, the one with the money is the one with the upper hand, an easy reality to understand, as much as it’s implications create concern, doubt or even furor.

      I have decided this is the greatest lesson I could share if you would share a lesson:

      Chinese do business the way they drive cars. Pragmatic, unpredictable, emotionless. That is, many of them(90% the male drivers of course) drive like maniacs, cutting each other off, swerving lanes, not staying in the lanes yet none gets upset (because in this society there are side of the road vehicles all over the place; scooters, work-karts, bicycles, big busses) and so swerving out of the white line is necessary and so normal to THEM) It is pragmatic action. It is emotionless, they rarely get upset. It is patient. They virtually ignore each other’s crazy driving. There is almost zero politeness, the idea of courtesy is exception not rule, yet again, they don’t regard each other as rude at all. Simply that you and I are equal in our task to get from point A to point B, we are both concerned only with ourselves, trying to get where we need to get, so why should either of us be upset? At the grocery store, clerks don’t say hello or thank you to a customer. They just ring up the stuff, that’s their job. There is no expectation of anything else in terms of a social interaction. Incredibly pragmatic and process-oriented. So consider what all that might mean as the rise of Asia led by China impacts the rest of the world. It is quite a culture clash.

      By no means should anyone including myself imply that this part of the global economic picture is a broad-reaching panacea or solution to the many woes the world faces, Americas, Europe, Asia…all. It can be called a very meaningful part of what is happening in the current and coming state of world affairs and I believe we all should keep it in mind.

      Cheers and thanks again to everyone,

      Mario
      Shanghai

  • ricecake March 30, 2011, 12:57 am

    Latest news on the Dollar: People wait on long line on Belarusians bank to get the Dollars!

    No Eastern Europeans don’t trust their own currencies. They only trust either the Euros or the Dollars.

    • Steve March 30, 2011, 1:24 am

      trust in silver

  • JJ March 30, 2011, 12:41 am

    Mario, you are ignoring 2 huge facts…all industrial and manufacturing capacity has been/is moving to china so they will produce and consume whatever they want on their home soil. They won’t be coming here for it. The only thing they will be coming for offshore is what they can’t supply themselves and that’s food and raw commodities, like steel and such.

    The second thing is, china has only been a market based economy for a short period and have never seen a real bustup or recession but they will and that will alter the course in that country. It may not derail their rise to economic power, but they will certainly have some detours. One such bubble brewing is their ghost cities and malls which is basically the biggest bubble in the history of mankind.

    You need to look at facts on the ground before you come up with a rosy pie in the sky outlook.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 9:08 am

      Hi JJ,

      Thanks for jumping in! They’re coming for real estate and other kinds of business sectors, retail, services, trade, etc. Manufacturing definitely isn’t top of their list as mentioned elsewhere, not profitable unless a boatload of incentives and breaks are part of the deal.

      On the ghost towns subject, this is, in my view, pointless nonsense, misunderstood, blown far out of proportion and meaning and mostly importantly, level of impact. Two days earlier on the forum, I explained why when RWD asked for my comments on the subject. Suggest you will enjoy reading it…

      Other comments see my main comment below…

      Cheers, Mario

  • TinFoilHat Wearer March 29, 2011, 9:54 pm

    Ok it has to be said and no one has ventured down this rabbit hole so I will do so.

    Mario, your pollyanna perspective does not take into consideration what the “plans” are of the “masters of the universe” – the “elite”, rules, the bankers, the bilderbergers, those in charge of things. As Wilson (I think it was) said “if it happens in politics I was planned to happen” (or something along those lines). In other words everything that is happening today was intentionally planned to happen! Did you know that the plans to attack Libya were drawn up months ago? Do you honestly think that Greenspan did not know what he was doing when he dropped interest rates to zero and kept them there for years? Do you beleive that Goldman Sacks didn’t know that their CDOs were going to blow up (opps of course they knew as they bet on that happening).

    I argued for years that we would have a deflationary depression. We just “had” to because there was way too much debt in the system to escape such an outcome (similar to Ricks views). Then along comes Mr. “I have a printing press” and voila no deflation (except in housing) instead we get inflation out the ying-yang (and maybe some of the hyper style). My only problem with my prognostications (deflation) was that I did not know what “their” game plan was. I thought since the Fed engineered (Yes it was intentional) a deflationary depression 80 years ago a repeat was in the cards; I was wrong (well so far).

    George Soros has publicly stated that the dollar needs to be replaced as the reserve currency. Since he is one of the “masters of the universe” I believe that he and his buddies are working on doing just that. So I see a loss of reserve currency status for the USD as “in the cards”. Mario what happens to your views if (when) the dollar loses reserve currency status?

    Also why the heck would the Chinese want to leave their form of overt communism to come here for our more restrictive form of communism? While I can’t say if the Chinese still believe in the “land of the free and home of the brave” progoganda the “smart” ones must see that this country is going from facism to some other form of socialism/communism/more overt facism very quickly. Most “smart” Americans are leaving this country or working on doing so as they can see the writing on the walls.

    Our schools are (intentionally) failing our children. We rank close to the bottom in education amongst the first world nations. We poision our childrens’ and our peoples’ drinking water with industrial waste products (flourosilic acid – sodium fluoride) though most of the rest of the civilized world has ceased doing such nonsence. We force people (and farm stock) to consume genetically modified poisions when most of the rest of the world at least requires labeling of such poisons in their food stuffs. We sexually abuse our children and mothers in the airports if they refuse to undergo sexually explicit radiation treatment (opps I meant “screening”). We spy on our citizens through email, phone, cameras on the streets. Ok I could go on and on but I think you get the point.

    The ONLY freedom this country has that MOST others don’t have is the “freedom” to open a new business. However once that is done then the entrepenuer can look forward to paying outrageous fees, taxes, and death care costs (opps I meant health care). Then they are forced to “obey” tons of onerous regulations.

    Why would anyone want to come here?

    • Robert March 29, 2011, 10:32 pm

      Oh my God, that was awesome…..

      5 stars.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:02 am

      You are being outrageously extreme in your views and my view is not pollyanna, its what is real.

      I’ll say no more.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:57 am

      Ok, now to respond to specifics:

      1. Mario what happens to your views if (when) the dollar loses reserve currency status?

      Answer: Well, that would certainly change everything for everyone and we all know that. Right now 80% of international transactions take place in USD. (source, Ty Andros interview I just heard)

      2. …why the heck would the Chinese want to leave their form of overt communism to come here for our more restrictive form of communism?

      Answer: That question assumes so much! The simplest answer I can give you is famous “The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.” You are so damn blinded by the miserable, annoying stuff going on in America that you are not capable of seeing how anyone else anywhere else on the planet can find opportunity or benefit in what is happening.

      Let me tell you very clearly what I see and what Chinese see, from here in Shanghai. We see two countries, both will lots of pluses and lots of minuses, and both being completely different sets of pluses and minuses! So, let me have access to both, that’s reasonable, and let me decide how to live my life in either place. We want options. Especially Chinese, more free and capable than ever to gallivant around the globe with their cash.

      “We spy on our citizens through email, phone, cameras on the streets.”

      Oh come on, stop whining. I heard that in Scottsdale, the citizens pissed and moaned so much that the city actually removed the speeding ticket cameras from the 101 freeway! I can’t believe it. Here, cameras are built into the system on every single block of road, snapping photos of the cars as they drive along. I gave up on the idea of the supposed privacy and freedom American’s idealistically hold up. It hardly exists anywhere on earth, not there and certainly not here, so move on. You can still probably have a nice life where no one will come knocking on your door if you’re not doing anything nefarious. Yes, I KNOW that its not fair that they screwed everyone and took away your ability to do anything about it. I know. I know. It sucks. We can go on and on about it. I am not ignoring it nor saying it isn’t a big deal, or isn’t very important or aggravating. It is all of those things….yea, so now what? Only do what and how you can realistically notice and respond.

      Cheers, Mario

    • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 6:37 pm

      > Why would anyone want to come here?

      Largely because things are still comparatively even worse in most other countries – even northern Europe.

      If Mario is simply suggesting that further immigration of “PHD” people will fuel the bulk of our group innovation, that’s something that most honest people would have to admit. The only question is whether we still have enough to welcome poor, hungry desperate immigrants.

      Personally, I’d trade ’em straight up for most of our lazy, born-with-a-silver-spoon-up-their-butt rentier class. The USA works best when the majority are PHDs. It’s the growing malaise of RLRs that produce Luddite aversion to thinking & aggressive risk/uncertainty management.

      RLR = rich, lazy rentier

  • Robert March 29, 2011, 9:46 pm

    Mario-

    Gary North just happened to post an interesting counter to the premise of your argument:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north961.html

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 6:28 pm

      Thanks,its a good read.

  • Jim N March 29, 2011, 9:21 pm

    Finally got to read this. What a great discussion piece Mario. I trully applaud you for being a positive person. I have been in the trenches for the last few years and have been witnessing the reality of the negative issues our country is facing and thus have lost a signficant amount of my “positive can do ” attitude.

    Your scenario is one that i would love to see but just don’t see it. Who woudn’t. New investors. As i live in Washington State, i have witnessed many Chinese that have come to his country with the attitudes you mention. Some are some good friends of mine. There are those in this country that will resist this kind of immigration, and they can get pretty ugly.

    Mario, i hope you are right in your predictions, but fear that you have not considered global events that will indeed impact a normal immigration to this country and the nice and orderly scenario you envision.

    One of the issues is the anger and violence in the people who have “been had” that has been penned up over the years and will, imo, start showing itself. We are already seeing the government controlling movement and access in this regard, all with the excuse to “protect” people. In many ways America is NOT the land of the free. Just try getting on an airplane.

    These 100 million, formerly middle class will not just go away. Something will happen. I don’t know what, but there is something amiss now, and it is growing. By the time the public and private debt load is finally defaulted on (no way around this) it won’t be 100 Million people … It will be far more. And unlike, Asia, and much of eastern Europe, Russia, etc, these people do NOT have a peasant mentality. They have a middle class history. There is a huge difference between the two mindsets and the middle class will not just go away. After travelling extensively where the peasant mindset rules, i see the peasants just bowing over to events beyond their control. It’s an attitude and mindset and that mindset doesn’t broadly exist in America. I’m only saying this as i believe that there may come a time where enough becomes enough with these people. You are just starting to see that now, i hope it is orderly. I fear that it won’t and that it won’t be rational.

    My question to you Mario about your scenario: isn’t there some outward global issue that will occur based on collapse of the current global system (which is what would happen is the $ index hits 60 or so) ? Your end game scenario seems to be to be such a gentle landing for such signficant events.

    Mentioning that the EUR will be just fine? Really? So everything will be just fine? How do you justify this statement? You seem to FULLY DISMISS the US debt issue here or assume it can just be written down? I am not convinced you have an accurate understanding of the overall MACRO issues in the US. Debt. Home Ownership. State/Federal power struggles. Rule of law issues. These all add up to be very signficiant negative reasons to invest in america and the short term.

    There are too many other global issues other than the economic ones that you suggest that will allow things to continue as they are, albeit on a lower level. Too many interactions between so many global agendas to even think that in 5 years and all will be neat and tidy. It is a nice vision though.

    I hope i am wrong and you are right though!

    My best….!jim

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:00 am

      Hi Jim,

      You add wonderful points and very glad you enjoy the piece. I realize by your comment that this treatment of the subject should show that in my viw it is a slice of the overall economic picture which is and will have a substantial impact , but not such a broad panacea by any means. I don’t believe I’m suggesting so neat and tidy but that the types of situations and activities occurring I’ve focused are part of the picture, are already happening and will happen more and more in the coming years.

      On the currency items you mention, I can’t suggest I’m deeply knowledgeable nor qualified to make any detailed comments. I don’t have that depth of knowledge & experience on the subject. With that said, I just don’t see that USD or EURO will have a doomsday, its such an off the charts scenario. Now I DO suggest with clarity that there are plenty of very big, very powerful parties out there across the world with very big vested interests in that not happening! It is a prayer as much as an opinion. Thanks again Jim!

      Cheers, Mario

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:38 am

      You think if the dollar “gently” gradually falls to a new 60-70 range over the next five years, that will lead to various collapses?…won’t it create various opportunities, too? It would take deep, long thoughtline to be able to paint a realistic, broad sense of that what if scenario…like I said, a 600 page book…

      Cheers, Mario

  • VegasBob March 29, 2011, 8:08 pm

    My view for the past decade has consistently been that at some point between 2030 and 2050, the Spanish-speaking President of the United States will be reporting to the Premier of China. Perhaps the United States of America will become a Chinese territory.

    The only certainty in my mind is that, taken as a whole, the native-born population of the USA no longer has the drive and the willingness to work that is needed to succeed in a competitive world. While there are individual exceptions in any population, the fact is that 2 generations of Americans have been completely stultified and dumbed-down by ever-increasing government ‘entitlements.’ As long as average Americans believe they can have wealth without work, they will not produce at a level necessary to remain an economic powerhouse.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 7:48 am

      …Much like provincial Europe too? In fact, I don’t have a couple million dollars, and if I did, I wonder if in fact I wouldn’t become far lazier? I think I know but in fact one never truly knows one’s reaction until it actually happens and the circumstances under which it happens.

      No matter what as you say, someway, somehow America getting more productive is a critical part to the puzzle, and a bigtime solution supporting that is to bigtime focus on building up exports. That CAN more easily than ever before be done by the little in todays web connected world. Many Americans need to become global traders of their goods AND services just as the big corporations have done.

  • Robert March 29, 2011, 7:10 pm

    Mario-

    Excellent piece.

    “Rome will not burn while Nero fiddles.”

    – I agree for the most part. Benjamin did a good job with the history lesson so I won’t re-touch on that. I’ll only point out that Rome eroded from within- the Visigoths did not “conquer” anything. They marched right past the Roman farmers, and, rather than ransacking and burning as they went, they simply left the farmers be.

    Why? because the farmers had all but abandoned their national loyalty to the Emperor, and the Goths knew it.

    Plus, the Goth’s knew that the majority of the farmers were former Roman Military officers- better to just slide past them than to force your shoulder into their chest, possibly awakening some slumbering tendency toward retaliation in the process.

    Coming from a military family, I find it increasingly telling how many veterans I know who, when asked if they would sign up today if asked to, say “absolutely not”

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 7:40 am

      This really brings up the point of the social/values divides that are emerging within the states…the newest version of civil war so to speak. We suppose there are countless number of citizens in America who are the “farmers” the “sheep” who want nothing at all to with the political system, the shenanigans, all the craziness going on with the runnings of the country. So who are the “Americans” in America? Its interesting listening to my mom the last few years, her and my dad comfortably retired in North Scottsdale, Arizona…she says she just doesn’t get involved, tells me keep quiet, minds her own business, doesn’t want to get anyone’s attention. I think its easy to understand her feelings…on a certain level, she knows she is like everyone else, as powerless as ever to do anything about it anyway, so you sort of localize your values and priorities. Her way of stepping out of the matrix as RWD says…

    • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 6:28 pm

      > Coming from a military family, I find it increasingly
      > telling how many veterans I know who, when asked if
      > they would sign up today if asked to, say “absolutely not”

      Agreed. Have heard the same thing myself. Yet the reality remains that there is always another way, further migration upstairs – from commodities to tactics to strategies to coherent operations. Mil ops guys I’ve talked to are frustrated not with the DoD’s acceptance of that rule in the War Colleges, but only with their methods for ensuring that winning doctrine survives bulk transfer to the battlefield.

      That’s exactly the same problem we have in the population at large. It’s a problem of mobilizing to scale. Both flexibility & kinetics sum to produce demanded agility. We know how, but are simply failing to insist on adequate execution, by not altering our own methods fast enough, … ultimately by being complacent and lazy about the need. Same thing that happened to the Romans.
      We can go the way Rome did, or we can insist that we WILL explore the better ways we already know about, as well as some we probably don’t. This is NOT an argument about what can and can’t be. It’s choice time, about what we all insist will or won’t be pursued.

  • John Jay March 29, 2011, 6:41 pm

    I agree with Mario about Chinese investment.
    China is more likely to build some state of the art manufacturing facilities in the USA than any American corporation is.
    They can pick up where the Japanese and Koreans have left off with new auto plants.
    The American corporations were very happy with the steel mills and auto plants that Andrew Carnegie and Henry Ford left behind, no need to invest in plant and equipment, right?

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 7:32 am

      John Jay, they are aggressively seeking to do it, but they are the shrewdest negotiators and so if its not a good deal for them, they’ll walk away without blinking. As I recently read the head of Dell said, much more expensive and pain in the butt to start a new business in the U.S. compared to many other locations on the planet. That’s why incentives need to be on the table, for example, the EB-5 investment visa is definitely an add-on incentive for the incoming Chinese…so many of them will gladly tolerate a business that only breaks even, they’ve gotten their entire family permanent residence visas, that opens up alot of doors and options for them in the present and future.

      Comparatively, my wife is pregnant, and we are seriously considering the long term incentives available by arranging to have the birth in HK, big advantages for mainland Chinese to the hassle of doing so starting with HK permanent residence, so being able to freely go back and forth between HK and mainland. While it may sound ridiculous and unreasonable that it is still quite restrictive for a mainland citizen to go to HK (part of the “same” country), it is, and so scores of mainland women go to HK to give birth, its become an industry unto itself in the healthcare services field. And so, we find ourselves weighing our options in terms of where to give birth, what residence card, what passport, for the child, etc.

      Cheers, Mario

  • ricecake March 29, 2011, 6:29 pm

    Don’t forget America is the country found by the immigrants. All Americans have their family history of immigration. Including (If I’m not mistaken} the ancient American Indians who were all from the region now called Asia.

    So much of the “Foreigners” and “Foreign ownership”…… you forget that they are the new immigrants with the money. They aren’t foreign for long. America is a powerful melting pot. Their kids are going to be highly educated in the best American schools. They will adopt to the American values which is what attracts them to come to the U.S.A at the first place! There will be many new generation Gary Locke like to serve the U.S interests.

    All things have ups and downs. The falling out-of-date American middle class will be built again, replaced by the raising new up-to-the-tasks new middle class.

    • Steve March 29, 2011, 7:04 pm

      American Schools, the worst product at the highest cost. Doesn’t seem like something a foreign parent would want. (ya, there are a few exceptions all teaching marxism at a high level) As to Gary Loche, he is a liberal liberal who wishes to control every citizen and reform him into Loche’s image. The ‘valley’ of the West is as corrupt and marxist as it comes. But, maybe that is the American lot – to become enfranchised to the old that failed, under new frosting.

    • Steve March 29, 2011, 7:20 pm

      The point is that in Oregon and Washington there is a narrow valley between the Coast and Cascade ranges. The marxists (Called the Oregon System, or U’Ren Progressive Movement) of that small piece of land force their will upon the rest of the state’s people and lands. Look at a Blue and Red map of Oregon and Washington and it will become very clear very fast. Most people outside Eugene, Salem, Portland, Vancouver, Tacoma, Seattle, do not like, or understand the abuses of the ‘valley’ people like Loche. If the political views of Gary Loche are the future, then there will never be anything gained by moving, or investing in the U.S.

  • rmsimc March 29, 2011, 6:09 pm

    Mario…

    Once again I find myself in agreement with your perspective. Namely:
    1. The USD will not implode anytime soon (if ever)
    2. Same for the Euro
    3. The “inter-connections” require a functioning western finacial system.
    4. Food and Oil inflation “can’t” maintain the current trajectory (…or all bets are off).

    But I would say that a better solution…allbeit, less likely by a million times… would be for the US to undertake a STRONG dollar policy and to develop our natural resources that the govt has confiscated (either through regulation or through land-grab). I think we’d better jump onto this emerging market bandwagon (resource demand) or we’ll get run over by it…as you suggest.

    The govt MUST get out of the way and let us drill…let us mine…let us farm…let us produce… This is the only chance we have to pull ourselves out of this mess

    • redwilldanaher March 30, 2011, 2:59 am

      The USD has already imploded to the tune of 95%, give or take a percent.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 3:23 am

      Hi Guys,

      Yea as RWD point out taking the long view, how the USD has bought less and less over the past 3 decades is is root to the outrageous reality we live. There is another side to this fence too. The asian mercantile strategy keeps the USD up. They use their received USD to buy treasuries, propping up the dollar and holding down interest rates, this keeps their own exported products cheap, Americans keep buying them. This game has been going on a long, long time. The higher up they are in biz and govt, the more they don’t want to see a falling dollar for that reason, it will put quite the sting in their exports. But the non-exporting sectors, the littler guys, the individual and small company millionaires and billionaires, the private companies, the publicly traded companies, they are the ones who will be more attracted to the U.S. as the dollar gets cheaper.

      Cheers, Mario

  • CC March 29, 2011, 5:45 pm

    “They see it and they will buy America piece by piece, ranging from macro banks to local houses and stores. They will own more and more of it. ”

    This is possible. And it would fit quite nicely into the mold of Professor Igor Panarin’s remarks about the ‘breaking up’ of the U.S., into regional/ethnic chunks, or some such.

    For $buying America ‘piece by piece’ does not mean becoming an American, it simply means you are purchasing $Assets at a fire sale from a hollowed-out whore who has lost her dignity.

    Indeed, if persistent (and rising) unemployment becomes the norm here, food on the table for malnourished American children would likely trump xenophobia – at least for a time.

    I think however, it would be limited to the coastal States and/or, inland States that are more amenable to a burgeoning Neo-Communal atmosphere and soft-Marxism, tempered only by what remains of the individualism that was once woven into our societal fabric – that is, until we all became ‘global citizens’.

    For better or worse, I would suggest that nationalism, protectionism and finally, War (of the naval variety, in the South East Pacific somewhere), will be the likely outcome before any sort of peaceful takeover by those with the Long View –

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 3:16 am

      Hi CC, I’d love to believe that Panarin first read the idea of America breaking up into regional and ethnic pieces in one of my previous writings, its something I see happening.. today its just not at all what it was nor will be and indeed, this situation of incoming Asians is a far cry from the Europeans who steamed in with heartfelt admiration of the Statue Of Liberty as they sailed into New York harbor.

      As I mentioned the risen Chinese arrogance elsewhere, it is rooted in nationalism and protectionism.

      Cheers, Mario

  • Jack C. March 29, 2011, 5:14 pm

    All empires have their time…Quietly moving to Canada or another viable destination is a more safe and less complicated and costly option.If and when the “conditions” are right for new investments they can be made from outside the Feds total control.Those who are left behind will pay for the excesses of the credit orgy of the last 40 years.Somebody has too pay the piper.The America of the past will not be the America of the future.IMO.

    • warren March 29, 2011, 6:57 pm

      Economic mayhem can cross borders easier than you can.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 3:08 am

      Hi Jack, Thanks for chiming in, surely we are reminded that Canada is and has been a prime destination for Asians….Vancouver a powerful Asian hub…

      And on your point that America is no longer nor will be what it was, you’ll find few detractors here.

      Cheers, Mario

  • Benjamin March 29, 2011, 3:20 pm

    Mario,

    You’re probably not going to like this, but it has be said. Rather than pick things apart point by point, though, I’ve made one this the focus of my “attack”…

    “They see it and they will buy America piece by piece, ranging from macro banks to local houses and stores. They will own more and more of it. ”

    They want to buy mirages that are becoming increasingly devalued and oppressed? Some or many of them probably will fall for it, but the dumb money (no offense) will be those who come here to look for Liberty and prosperity. The smart Chinese money will be those who stay put with their heads down, as the plan of tyrannts ultimately requires. I’ll clarify that in a moment. For now, let’s get back to Rome…

    At a time, the Visigoths wanted Rome so badly that they were willing to lay seige to her, plunder, then… Now, I’m of course not suggesting that 100,000,000 Chinese billionaires are frothing-at-the-mouth Genghis Khans. They sort of are, but in a different guise, one they themselves probably don’t recognize.

    The very fact that they are increasingly in a position to have their cake and eat it too means that, as China rises, the U.S. by necessity must become the America they DON’T want. A falling dollar is accomplished by sustained sales of U.S. debt. The plan is to suppress the U.S. from the great competition. As industry continues to leave or shut down, it is replaced with government employment. BUT…

    As we can see, the shrinking pie is already largely acknowleged; ending public sector collective bargaining (as well as exemptions from Obamacare), while otherwise beneficial, has come too little, too late. Already those who stand to benefit most see the limitations, hence they kicked the afore mentioned off the lifeboat. How many teacher unions were ever in China? Or Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc?

    I used to think that once all/almost all industry left, the Chinese would stop buying our debt. What else could we have to surrendur in trade? This is probably not going to be the case, though; there’s plenty of value to them in keeping up the suppressing fire. If the U.S. is allowed to be the envy of the world, then that means the overwhelming majority cannot have it. So, while China has backed off on U.S. Treasury purchases, they will not drop it entirely. To do so would in effect mean allowing us to default on that debt, which in turn would set us free to compete as the America they WANT but cannot have.

    This is precisely what we’ve done to the world over the decades. By installing dictators favorable to a U.S.-centric plan, we repressed competition for resource in those countries. So this is no idle speculation on my part; I’m only reading from the playbook. Ergo, the slice of the Roman pie that the Goths wish to have and eat too is simply not going to be there for long.
    And come to think of it, things weren’t so great for the Goths after the sacking of Rome, either. Which brings me to…

    You’re right to say that inflation is not a problem. It is not. What is a problem is who has monopoly over it. And that is never going to be a _growing_ base of billionaires. Not for long, anyway. Just as teachers were (rightly) thrown off the boats, I suspect all these “Chinese” (are they?) billionaires are going to have to be brought to heel as well. If you’re not
    the parasite of the greatest need and hence motivation (read: THE lazy, unproductive, supervisory scum of the earth), then there is no room at the top for you.

    And of course, therein lies the value of hard money. It’s not a hedge vs the tyrannt monopolists. It’s impossible to protect let alone win in their game. No, the value of gold and silver is to give absolute control of currency inflation/deflfation to the largely more productive and far less harmful class. That is what intelligent human life must assert themselves for. All else is smoke and vanishing dreams, just like it always has been.

    For example, if I were a rich Chinese, I wouldn’t want to own any kind of store here. Did you hear about the lawsuit Walmart now faces? Millions of “women” (read: a few lawyers) are suing Walmart for billions, on the grounds of discrimination. That’s only thousands per plaintiff, to the great loss of Walmart. I wouldn’t want to own a store here in the “land of the free”. In fact, the reason why Walmart is so prominent in the first place is because the rules here drove the small retailers out of business. And now that the giant has the spoils… kill the giant, of course, because they’re “an evil corporation”. Soon enough, even the flea markets will have to pay protection money.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 3:02 am

      Morning Gents,

      Great points Benjamin on both sides of this scenario. For the rich Chinese who are expanding their assets elsewhere, some of them are doing so very giddy with rose-colored glasses from their new riches, others are older and wiser, the rose-colored glasses are off. They are simply giving themselves some options and flexibility to be able to live in the place which offers them the least troubles and most reasonable opportunities. The paradise always gets spoiled when everyone finds out about it, eh? Meanwhile, the internal China scenario has improved to an unprecedented degree. While that is irrefutably true, it is for many still not a scenario to be trusted and they don’t want to be stuck there if and when things turn a way they don’t want.

      Cheers, Mario

    • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 6:19 pm

      > we repressed competition for resource in those countries

      Yet the greatest resource is the ability to think, it’s personal intelligence, trumped only by group intelligence.

      Given we’ve set sights low and sequestered more than our share of low-hanging resources. As is often said, there’s always room to go after the top resources, because the return-on-coordination is infinite.

      Why sweat the low-hanging resources? They’re never the restraint.

  • roger erickson March 29, 2011, 2:25 pm

    trying to be more clear: “What’s the point in trying to obtain some of the coincidental indicators of public initiative that are thrown off by another population?” [i.e., some of THEIR fiat currency]

    And please, don’t go back down the rabbit hole of saying they’re loaning us THEIR fiat currency by sending us real stuff in return for OUR fiat currency, and then buying our fiat currency bonds, which we’ll have to “pay back” with OUR fiat currency? The fire you fear at the end of that rabbit hole is that we will run out of fiat? That would simply require running out of public initiative (by 1001 alternative methods).
    Whatever stuff you’re drinking, please send a case of it to every one of our enemies, ‘cuz it’s working.

  • roger erickson March 29, 2011, 1:17 pm

    Look, any group can lose focus & initiative at any time, for 1001 reasons. The tip of the hierarchy is for us to regain some public initiative, by setting some worthwhile group goals. What’s the point in trying to get some of the coincidental indicators of public initiative thrown off by another population?

    May as well resort to sorting through discarded clothing. They do that in various 3rd countries. It’s not good advice to divert US citizens into any analogous form of that pursuit.

    • Robert March 29, 2011, 9:56 pm

      “The tip of the hierarchy is for us to regain some public initiative, by setting some worthwhile group goals.”

      Like what? Going to the moon? I think JFK covered that one…

      Maybe more wars? Haven’t the lessons of FDR, LBJ, GHWB and GWB and now BHO been taught adequately well that war is NOT economically productive in real terms, only in nominal terms?

      How about World Peace? That’s always a stellar goal that people always seem to think requires a centralized planning authority, rather than a set of simple commerce laws that enforce the integrity of contract and settlement.

      Oooooh I know- maybe we should colonize Mars, just for kicks.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 7:17 am

      …seems clear to all of us that the idea of worthwhile societal goals, a lovely, impossible idea with the current broken govt system, has been usurped & blindsided by a completely different set of values & policies.

  • roger erickson March 29, 2011, 1:11 pm

    > “Asian Money Will Eventually Revive the U.S.”

    but .. fiat “money” is created at will by populations with initiative …. so ???

    so you’re saying that Asian public initiative will revitalize the USA?
    but we’re now officially against immigrants too! 🙂

    how do you spell “oxymoron” in Mandarin?

    • Robert March 29, 2011, 6:02 pm

      “fiat “money” is created at will by populations with initiative …. so ???

      so you’re saying that Asian public initiative will revitalize the USA?”

      Roger-

      When… WHEN will you get it? I’m like a broken record, so here goes again:

      Fiat currency is NOT money.

      Mario (accurately) stated:

      “Asian Money Will Eventually Revive the U.S.”

      The Asians have capital that is in increasing demand globally. The US has capital that is in declining demand. What is so hard to understand about that? Currency is irrelevant to Mario’s point.

      The US only has two global cards left- the one we have been playing in Libya the past two weeks, and the ability to destroy the purchasing power of the world’s reserve currency.

      We have, officially, become the 100 pound 4th grade bully with the 80 level IQ that pushes the other 4th graders around on the playground everyday.

      America still leads the world in innovation, and we still have a stellar minority of outstanding scientific minds; but as a collective, America has become stone- stupid.

      To use your own thesis- how could a great, national “coordination” of stupid people yield genius results?

    • Steve March 29, 2011, 6:55 pm

      Bravo Robert !

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:25 am

      FYI…Rick gets credit for the title…:) I was thinking along the lines of Asia Rising Meets Dollar Falling which sounds like a bad date…

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:33 am

      “The US only has two global cards left- the one we have been playing in Libya the past two weeks, and the ability to destroy the purchasing power of the world’s reserve currency.”

      A great statement. They do have other cards to play, other things they absolutely can do that will greatly benefit the society, they “the system” as it is now, simply won’t. And then, certain parts of the system are simply too far gone to reverse. Its like the previous argument we had about guns. It may be perceived as great for citizens here in China that we don’t have guns but that’s the way it has been from the beginning and so it works real well. But once a society, such as America starts off with guns, to then try and make it become a genuine, no guns society is simply impossible because it involves not only the logistic, but the emotional and value issues related, the will to do so could never evolve. Integrating one society’s values into another is such messy stuff…

      Cheers, Mario

    • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 1:32 pm

      > fiat currency is NOT money

      Exactly what I’ve been trying to tell YOU. Odd how long it takes for two discussants to grasp the depth of the semantic gulf separating their own words. Know your audience – the old lesson that’s so hard to pin down, no matter how hard we try 🙂

      Let’s go the next step and say that you prefer “money” = tangible commodity. Fine. (I presume.)

      Given that you separate the meaning of commodity and currency, the next logical step is this.

      Capital – the ability to exert leverage on human affairs, also comes in infinite forms, the chief of which is always discernment – the ability to recognize patterns before others and then point emerging options worth exploring. Capital is always the available route or path to surf through a battlefield of transiently useful commodities. The pen is mightier than the sword, and the ability to think creatively mightier still. That’s why operations outweigh strategies and strategies outweigh tactics.

      Social aggregates have never, in all of history, been more constrained by commodities than by return-on-coordination, i.e. public initiative. With wits, we always go places that yesterday’s Luddites thought impossible “by previous methods alone.” That’s a given.

      What we both now call currency is the fluid bookkeeping that denominates the infinite options open to groups willing to use their collective wits and pursue return-on-coordination. You’re saying the collective wit of Asians will save us?

      So we’re still back to the same issue. We do NOT need Asian currency, or ANY Asian commodities. What’s always more valuable is our own wits, one trivial coincidence of which is our ability to generate as many bookkeeping numbers as we need to denominate all the distributed transactions we can invent – the optional permutations are infinite. In the end, the “capital” value of design trumps all commodities.

      No specific commodity (even your “money”) was necessary to write the Constitution, free ourselves from whale oil, split the atom, invent light bulbs, generators, highways, libraries or the internet – yada, yada. Human group intelligence allows us to surf any/all commodities. To every sovereign nation, all other nations ARE commodities – and we do allow leakage between them even as we use one another.

      Everything is money, and thinking is our fiat currency. If you can think, you can never be limited by or dependent upon any form of commodity, including money. A foolish population and their supposedly valuable money are soon parted, by a clever population and their fiat wits. Been that way forever.

      What’s next on the menu? You’re going to say that group hoarding is NOT group intelligence? I’ll take the latter, please. “N” servings, if you don’t mind, and hold the commodity baggage. I prefer my future cafe au fait.

    • roger erickson March 30, 2011, 1:47 pm

      In an adaptive, group race, a nested sequence is always observed.

      a) observers bet on those that hoard commodities (first pass indicator; most lose their shirt, as huns/vikings/bankers separate fools from money; shit!)

      b) observers bet on those that have “capital” [banking leverage; most STILL lose their shirt, as “Da Boyz” surf the same leverage game, just always a bit faster; double shit!]

      c) surviving observers bet on those able to “capitalize” any/all things faster [group methodology spawning “capital” at will; from Alexander/Caesar on to Hoover & FDR; after conquering the world, capitalist backers are horrified to see their own charges capitalize their supposed owners! triple shit!]

      d) enraged citizen stockholders insist on “Automatic Stabilizers” to keep “capitalists” muzzled; works for a while, but gets outdated; grandkids again lose their shirts;

      e) now what? some grandkids say “Say, they’re still generating shirts in Asia!”
      Rags to rags in 3 “capital” generations? Is that the next plan?

      As the campaign strategists say, “there is a better way.”

      What’s next, after past “capital” formation concepts no longer scale? There are completely alternative options that will blow current entrants in adaptive race completely off the course. As long as we’re going to be thinking at all, why not set the bar far higher, and escalate, not just think sideways to Asia? We all came to this country to pursue a better way. If others have caught up, the challenge is to either accept it, or create a yet better way.

      That’s my beyond-capital story, and I’m sticking to it. 🙂

    • Robert March 30, 2011, 8:18 pm

      “No specific commodity (even your “money”) was necessary to write the Constitution, free ourselves from whale oil, split the atom, invent light bulbs, generators, highways, libraries or the internet – yada, yada. Human group intelligence allows us to surf any/all commodities. To every sovereign nation, all other nations ARE commodities – and we do allow leakage between them even as we use one another.”

      We agree on this point to an extant-

      I believe that the Constitution WAS about money (or more accurately about free trade, which can not occur without free money)

      So the question becomes whether money should only be measured in weight (which rewards those who hoard) or measured on the whims of collaborative (and therefore corrupt-able) central bankers who are not elected by governments of the people, by the people, and for the people…?

      I would have no issue with money by fiat continuing as the preferred global medium of exchange- what I find reprehensible is that the “issuers” are globally independent of governance by the global population they are (supposedly) chartered to serve- this fact underpins the very basis and essence of what the 10th amendment was supposed to protect us from, yes?

  • ChingChowMyAss March 29, 2011, 1:00 pm

    Either you were wasted drunk when you wrote this or your optimism about China buying the US is hyperventilated, wishful thinking.

    There will be violent revolution prior to this wishful Chinese ownership event. Once a few Indian and Chinese business owners are rightfully hung from a few trees…this will discourage the Chinese ownership you wish for..you see foreign business interests here pay no taxes, sell the businesses within the family to keep from paying gains, etc.) that the next target of broke desperate Americans will be the monied foreigners buying real estate and businesses.

    If you ask me its long over due. It was overdue for the Patels that own the seedy gas stations and hotels along I-95, 20 years ago. But there was little kindling since most poorer people were employed. Now thats not the case, and as it gets worse, the mindset on foreign ownership will change, for the mega worse.

    Wait until the welfare state gets rolled back…the wild animals we call ‘Americans’ will make the Chinese tourist/owners wish they never got off the plane.

    • mario cavolo March 29, 2011, 1:52 pm

      …sorry to upset you, you do point up an ugly side of the scenario; its not wishful or forward thinking or wanting on my part in anyway; distasteful or not to someone, its already happening to a substantial degree and will accelerate in step with any further USD value declines. You suggest Americans will resent their “saviors” with the cash, yes as anyone might, but they’ll still make the deal when their dead assets are sitting on the table with nowhere to go…the U.S. already sold out the manufacturing industry, right or wrong? You suggest the mindset against foreign ownership will get worse, that patriotic protectionism will kick in, interesting point but not likely at all. When you’re broke you give in to the guy that comes along to make the deal so you can move on, and its a guess as to how much new vitality, as Rick put it, may result in the end.

      Cute name there…

    • Benjamin March 29, 2011, 3:39 pm

      ChingChow, eh? Hmm. Can’t we all just be part of the same deceived and oppressed humanity, for once? We’d make tons more progress that way, and much faster. Which brings me to…

      “Wait until the welfare state gets rolled back…the wild animals we call ‘Americans’ will make the Chinese tourist/owners wish they never got off the plane.”

      Even when the welfare was not as bad (just before the Rodney King/L.A. riots) there was tremendous bigotry against Asian store owners in L.A. (and elsewhere). This is I saw on Geraldo, iirc, in which several black racists justified their own bigotry on the basis of those who were “bigotted” against them. They were especially vicious on the Asian store owners, which struck me as odd since they’re not exactly white… which was the supposed focus of all that hatred.

      It’s not new and it will get more pronounced. Virtually everyone will become a victim of such horrid magnitude that the only “fix” will be lawsuits and regulation up the wazoo…. whether Chinese, American, or Antarctican bought and owned.

      There is no such thing as private property rights, in this system. That is why Chinese money perceives a much-desired bargain in the first place. We’ve also seen this in reverse. Why does so much business leave here? They say, correctly, that because taxes and laws are more lax elsewhere. BUT… in those places, they have had far less to tax and regulate in the first place, so of course such laws and taxes were missing.

      The very best that can be accomplished in any of this is more tyranny and poverty and rising forced “investment” from elsewhere to elsewhere. This is called “trade balance”, but really is just a “gentlemans agreement” among a handful of parasites… who only plan to at some point stab each other in the back. No room on the lifeboat for everyone, you know.

      But this beyond five years. For now, I think Mario will be proven more correct than not.

    • Martin C March 29, 2011, 3:58 pm

      yep, you’re right, there are a lot of redneck racists about

    • Robert March 29, 2011, 6:27 pm

      There are a lot more than just Redneck racists about.

      As Benjamin accurately points out- Urban black people are as racist as any back-country Georgian or Alabaman, as are Californian hispanics.

      Everybody hates everybody.

      Racism (and all forms of bigotry really) is simply the process of imposing your hatred of something you don’t understand onto someone who is arbitrarily different than you-

      Would a racial civil war stem the tide of incoming international capital to the US? Hardly.

      Would such a racial civil war be won by white people? again, the population demographics say that hispanics would be overwhelmingly victorious if such a violent civil confrontation should come to pass.

      If Americans don’t want “foreigners” and their capital coming here, then Americans need to get the right people in Washington DC, because it is US monetary policy that is rolling out the red carpet…

    • Steve March 29, 2011, 6:54 pm

      Robert, a subjective question. Who is more likely to fight for something, the foreigner who ran from his own nation and would not fight, or the people who have put their blood in the ground for 230 years ?

    • Robert March 29, 2011, 10:25 pm

      Steve- there is no objective answer to your subjective question. 🙂

      There are two equally valid reasons that people choose to fight-

      1) You have something I want badly enough that I will fight you for it

      2) I have something you want and I will fight to defend it rather than surrender it to you

      Now, there are a myriad of other esoteric reasons that people also use as a pretense to fight- some people are just violent, which is why people are sometimes murdered for no reason.

      I personally believe that people are most easily motivated to fight in the spirit of defense (which I think is the subjective basis of your question?), but that is just an opinion… and it could be logically countered by the fact that there are extremely violent LA and Midwest gangs that are of Asian (and hispanic) descent… these people left their homeland, and came here to be violent. Who knows why…

      In fact- I would dare say that the Crips and the Bloods, which were the personified image of the evil, violent street thug in the 90’s, are now considered tame and trivial compared to the modern flavor of hardened Norteno or Wah Ching… these guys are truly ruthless and live without fear of dying themselves.

      Think about the New York race riots during the civil war… The great American melting pot does not always liquify smoothly over low heat- sometimes the heat builds to the point that there are splatters and boil overs.

    • Steve March 30, 2011, 1:21 am

      Robert, thanks for the excellent commentary. I worked the street in the time of the Bloods, Crips, and few others as they began movement into the Northwest for land to grow Tiller Killer. They were not flying colors at the time, but; we knew who they were. The gang member is a rouge whether they live in Mexico, Detroit, or the district of Columbia. I believe the average immigrant coming illegally will leave if life is easier in Mexico – we are seeing that just based upon economic issues. In a time of strife birds of a feather flock together. I agree that nothing is melted in the great melting pot when it comes to actual strife like a civil war, or even worse when all order breaks down. It kinda comes down to this; I will save/feed/shelter my children, my wife, my family. Mario’s writing is excellent above, and it is premised upon the Asian model of individual freedom, or lack thereof. Dharma in times of plenty, tyranny in times of need.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 7:14 am

      Absolutely Robert, policy from up on high is driving the direction of the society and economy; the nefarious and not so well intentioned blend of govt leaders, corporations, pharma/oil/healthcare/campaign/special interest lobbies and the media ad nauseum which has made a mockery of the way America was supposed to be governed and guided…um, well, of the people, by the people, for the people…that long forgotten core value.

    • Robert March 30, 2011, 8:06 pm

      Steve, Mario-

      Spot on.

      I always asserted that the best way to eliminate the dangerous influence of street gangs is to simply end the “war on drugs” and make them legal and regulated, and let Big Pharma annex the illicit market with their typical efficiency…

      In other words, let the FDA do it’s thing (what the DEA, ATF, FBI, and Homeland Security have proven completely inept at) and the illegal drug markets will go the same way Las Vegas did in the 1990’s when the Mafia was reduced to a caricature of its former self as the corporations turned Vegas into Disneyland for grownups.

      Hah, look at me- I’m actually stating a position in SUPPORT of corporations for a change… lol

  • watcher7 March 29, 2011, 9:59 am

    I am still looking for a post-recession high in the Dow; inflation and interest rate increases in response that will burst the Government-Bailout- Bubble sending the world into another great depression.

    In the coming greater depression China will most likely descend into anarchy and or civil war leading to balkanization; with America also balkanizing and Europe leading the world out of the Great Depression – a revival of religion in Europe will assist in this transformation.

    “The first Consul was determined to make use of the Catholic church. It was in complete disarray, Catholicism appearing to be in greater danger than during the Reformation…He recognized that the vast majority of the French were Catholics, and saw religion as a stabilizing force which could be useful to him” (Seward, “Napoleon and Hitler – A Comparative Biography,” p.94).

    One never hears much about the role of religion/churchgoing in the rise, and fall, of hegemonic powers – Great Britain, in the 19th century, and America, in the 20th century economic peaks, relative to the rest of the world, roughly coincided with a high in church-going). Decline in church-going, and the quality of worship, is a good indicator of hegemonic decline. Kicking God out of the schools, courts and the public square are recipes for disaster – you get what you deserve.

    “Every modern transition of world power supremacy has involved an ally or former colony of the previous hegemonic power” (Davidson & Rees-Mogg, “The Great Reckoning”, p.137).

    United Provinces of the Netherlands (Protestant) then United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (Protestant) now United States of America (Protestant) next United States of Europe (Catholic).

    The UP, the UK, and the USA have all ‘owned’ Manhattan; history suggests that USE will follow the script.

    “History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen” – Enoch Powell

    Pre-WW1 plans will become pre-WW3 plans:

    “”Wilhelm II wanted colonies and military bases around the world,” author Henning Sietz wrote in Die Zeit. “The United States was increasingly getting in the Kaiser’s way.””

    “Beginning in 1897, a German navy lieutenant named Eberhard von Mantey was assigned the task of preparing an invasion of the United States after German and American interests had collided in the Pacific.

    “Von Mantey’s aim was to find a way to force the United States to sign a treaty giving Germany free reign in the Pacific and Atlantic. He rejected ideas of a naval blockade or a naval battle and made plans for an invasion of the northeast instead” (Kaiser Wilhelm’s Germany Had Plan to Take New York, reuters.com, May 8, 2002).

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:22 am

      Catholic and Protestant Christianity are growing by leaps and bounds these years in China including the gov’t making effort to relax about it, open up dialogue. I attend Sacred Heart Church here in Pudong, in the JinQiao area, large building packed every Sunday with 75% foreigners at the English speaking Mass, full-blown typical church community activities, boring hymnals 🙂 , encouragement of family, etc. just like back in the states. With caritas-shanghai.org being the Diocesan international outreach charity of the Diocese. And when we get out of churc, there’s the local vendors with their carts selling bootleg bestseller book titles, dvd’s and original cd’s for $1.50 a pop. Such extremes here…

      Cheers, Mario

  • Loeffler March 29, 2011, 5:58 am

    You’re assuming of course that the US will not defult before 2016 which I belive it will. I don’t agree with any of it.

    • mario cavolo March 29, 2011, 7:01 am

      Hi Loeffler,

      Rick well noticed my meaning in use of the word “can’t” in the last paragraph.

      Food, oil, interest rates CAN”T go up, meaning that if those items do go up, we are indeed far more likely to have that disaster you suggest…in that regard, my last paragraph is more of a prayer than anything else.

      Lastly, there is the idea of Asia’s “merchant”strategy. They use the USD they receive to buy treasuries/debt, propping up the dollar and also keeping interest rates down so that people can keep buying their exported goods. Now we know who does pay the price for this ongoing arrangement but it points up the fact there are huge worldwide interests/needs which will go far to prevent a USD collapse, again, a wild, wild extreme idealistic notion most bears toss around far too easily.

      Cheers, Mario

  • mario cavolo March 29, 2011, 5:31 am

    Thanks RWD! By the way, on the empty China apt piece a couple of days earlier, I actually put together a response and wrote in to Dateline and Mr. Tulloch letting them know I was pursuing a counterpoint piece…haven’t heard from them and may not…

    Cheers, Mario

    • redwilldanaher March 29, 2011, 3:39 pm

      Thx for mentioning it. I did read your entire response in the forum and I appreciate the time and effort that you put into it.

    • mario cavolo March 30, 2011, 8:12 am

      Interesting news on this. I did hear back from Dateline. They sent me an email to inform me that they decided to forward my response to the producer and journalist of the story. We’ll see…hey, I’m no dummy, I may get skewered but I think the main point is to stay focused on having intelligent argument…not just the absolutes of right/wrong/know/don’t know…

    • redwilldanaher March 30, 2011, 4:03 pm

      Agreed Mario and thanks the updates. I will be interested to hear what develops if anything. I can see that getting “skewered” isn’t much of a concern of yours and I commend you for that. My view is that your views tend to be far too optimistic and I’ve often wondered if you’re intentionally “over the top” with them at times, for impact, but I still welcome them and those of the other folks in Rick’s forum. This is a great way to test and learn if nothing else. Think about it, if “what should have happened”, had happened, we wouldn’t be “here” right now? Do you follow?

    • mario cavolo March 31, 2011, 5:03 am

      To clarify 🙂 Putting it that way, I would not say I am intentionally over the top at times. I would say I make a strong effort to use contrast for impact, and that I do give more weight in this series of articles on the “bright side” or “other side” of the troubling scenarios which are typically focused on here at Rick’s. Also, I really believe I make a supreme effort to call a duck a duck, to call it as I see it, being an observer of reality, being more careful in the commentary about reality. But wow, there’s that idea that we can be so objective about our own selves. I regard myself very much a person who covers both sides…the light and dark, but yes yes, I do notice how much I am accused of being so rosy. I noted this ina nother comment in this column…Talking about it further, we would get into the so many parts; the layers, the context, the ideals vs the actual factual, etc. Its a challenge for all of us to dare wade these waters, disconcerting, stimulating for certain.

      Cheers, Mario

    • mario cavolo March 31, 2011, 5:15 am

      On this, “what should have happened”, had happened, we wouldn’t be “here” right now? Do you follow?

      Yes its so damned obvious and infuriating. “They” didn’t & aren’t doing the right thing. They are not doing “of the people, by the people, for the people.” or anything close to it…its become an elite/bureacrat’s game and nightmare at their corrupt whim, they destroyed the idea of capitalism and “America”, at the expense of the middle class of America…the body of work explaining it all is right here at Rick’s. We know…

  • redwilldanaher March 29, 2011, 5:07 am

    Hi Mario, nicely written piece friend.

  • Martin Snell March 29, 2011, 5:06 am

    Great read Mario. I think the key point is that the stabilization mechanisms need to allowed to work. Getting a lower dollar will help the US regain competitiveness, but it will kill the middle and lower classes (in terms of purchasing power). Of course getting the dollar to fall (I mean really fall to where it can have an impact) has been the problem.

    Where I live in Canada we have been inundated with Chinese, many bringing a lot of money, but also many being highly skilled young families intent on bringing up their children in the fresher air and cleaner environment. There are of course also the ones that come to get the extra passport, just in case.

    I am less optimistic about China. Any company, organization, or country that grows very fast is likely to be building on very shaky foundations. I don’t think we can really tell how firm China is until the first real recession comes (I’m thinking about the old Buffet line, it’s only when the tide goes out that you see who has been swimming naked). The rash of US listed Chinese firms that have turned out to be frauds (about one or two a week of late) is but one small example.

    I learned Chinese and have a fascination with the countries (Taiwan is a country) and the culture, so if worst comes to worst here I guess I can always head over there again.

    • mario cavolo March 29, 2011, 5:27 am

      Thank you Martin.

      Indeed, Taiwan and Hong Kong could easily be regarded as far more civilized and ordered and transparent compared to the mainland, where its still way too much like the wild wild west…and again let’s remember, China’s current biz/policy environment is not warm ‘n fuzzy welcoming, their current risen level of arrogance toward foreign countries and foreign investment needs to moderate, they need to show themselves as leaders at the world’s table. It is good to see their very high level of support toward Japan’s current crisis but it is their predominant manner to maintain very high levels of control and advantage. We’ll see how it plays out…

      Cheers, Mario

  • Steve March 29, 2011, 4:22 am

    Someone said that when 96% are betting on a down federal reserve note – only 4% are on the right side of the trade. Current economic theory is based in fraud, lies, fraud, and more lies. If fraud wins in the end, it will be the first time. If outlawry is the course of action with the president today in his justification, eventually only outlawry will exist. Not a neat map to success in the long haul.

  • Don March 29, 2011, 3:36 am

    Mario,
    Well stated from a socialist view, with the eroding US mentality toward peasantville which is reinforced from the top I do not see how this can materialize.
    Why are we trading at Rick’s if only to be
    taxed more and redistributed; I think not.
    The following link says it better than I.
    Prosperous trading to all.
    Don
    http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/09/23/u-s–returning-to-peasant-mentality.html?sid=101

    • mario cavolo March 29, 2011, 4:21 am

      Hi Don!

      Yes I just read that article you sent…shifting viewpoints as people are forced into situations they didn’t ever expect.

      Cheers, Mario

  • Michael Schurr March 29, 2011, 3:30 am

    Mario, You are the eternal optimist and I applaud you. For seeing things that those of us who live in the US cannot see as easily as you do. I can only hpe you are correct. The irony of your commentary is that I recently experienced exactly what you described. I am a real estate developer and one of my companies is currently involved in Neighborhood Stabilization Program. This TARP funded program uses private firms to acquire, vacant, foreclosed properties. It then funds the rehabilitation and marketing of those single family homes. We are currently acting on behalf of the City of Philadelphia to acquire these assets and as of late the majority of our buyers have in fact been Chinese. As a matter of fact, just this past Friday we closed on the sale of a $240,000 home that we recently completed and you guessed it, the buyer was Chinese and had a newly minted greencard. Not only that he paid CASH! It took us 3 weeks to convince the City that the buyer was receiving the money from relatives in China and it was all legitimate.

    Here’s to your positive perspective.

    • mario cavolo March 29, 2011, 4:39 am

      Hello Michael, I am so pleased you wrote to tell us this story as a meaningful indicator we should all be aware of. The last part you mentioned about disbelief on the Chinese buyer paying cash really tells the story and I suggest that in the coming years, administrators and bureaucrats in America will calm down as they realize that 100% cash is going to be a normal and expected part of the transaction.

      On a related story from this side of the Pacific, my wife has a close friend, typical mid level Chinese employee earning a salary around 3000rmb (US $470 per month) for many years. This year she bought herself an apt with a down payment of $200,000 (US $31,000) she had saved with little help from anyone else…pretty incredible, isn’t it? BUT, here in China that scenario, that ability for the average wager earners to save is changing fast with rampant inflation all around…disconcerting.

      Cheers, Mario