A High-End Homebuilder Looks Ahead

[All the government subsidies in the world will not revive the construction industry – only demand from increasing wealth will.  The guest commentary below offers a vivid picture of the economic and regulatory factors weighing on homebuilders these days. The author is Wayne Siggard, who builds mansions for the super-rich.  A UCLA law graduate, Wayne worked for Bechtel Financing Services and was self-employed as an investment banker doing private placements in oil and gas and alternative energy project financing.  When oil hit $10/bbl in 1985, he went into the homebuilding business, turning an avocation into an occupation. His real estate operations, including land development, have primarily been in California and Utah.  Wayne lived for several years in Italy and Switzerland and speaks many languages. RA]

Large estates are what I build.  Nobody needs what I produce any more than they need a $70 million dollar Van Gogh painting.  You can spend over $1million just on a theater, or hardscape and landscape.  I spend more on appliances and lighting figures than the construction cost of a 2000-square-foot tract house.  To ask what a house costs to build is akin to asking how much a car costs. Are we talking Yugo, Kia, Chevy, Cadillac, BMW, Rolls Royce or Bugatti?

The bottom line is this: There has been a demand for mansions and palaces since the beginning of recorded history, and there always will be. In the Roaring 20’s and 1974-2005, people bought big mansions because they anticipated making a million dollar profit on a $1.5 million dollar investment.  Ego and prestige have always been factors for me, along with being a fanatic about architecture.  Despite going to a top law school and working for ten years as an investment banker, I was one of those fanatics and made my passion my business. But the market might be so decimated for the next ten years that it will appear virtually non-existent.  Even if the land were free, you could lose your shirt building a spec house today.

For the ten years between 1985 and 2002, the cost of copper varied between 70 cents and 95 cents per pound, as opposed to today’s price of around $3.50. When America was in recession, the cost of materials and labor fell.  If the economy was booming, it rose. Starting in 2002, the demand from China for construction materials increased geometrically such that China currently consumes over 50% of the world’s lumber, cement, copper, steel, drywall, and other building materials. Construction costs are divided approximately 50/50 between materials and labor. Much of what China imports comes from Canada, the U.S., along with South America, Australia and Africa.  China’s material costs are the same as what we pay in America plus the cost of transportation.  If Chinese labor were free, they would have about a 40% edge in construction costs. The material market is now international and dominated by China, not the U.S.; more on this later.

Ten Million Underwater

Single-family housing starts fell from 1,715,800 in 2005 to 108,900 in 2009, and rose to 430,000 in 2011. According to Forbes magazine, as of August of 2012 there were ten million homeowners underwater and 1.5 million in shadow inventory.  According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there are ten million empty houses, not including seasonal (vacation) homes.  Fannie and Freddie funneled large blocks of REO houses to insider investors.  Large blocks of REOs are mysteriously being sold to the same groups of investors by real estate brokers who handle REOs for the banks.  These houses are then flipped for a profit.  The current lack of inventory is causing s mini-frenzy among house buyers.  But these are lower end houses.  Anecdotally, there is one lot in Rancho Santa Fe which is for sale for $695,000 which was listed for sale at $2,500,000 in 2006.  Five-acre lots in La Cresta which sold for $650,000 in 2006 are selling for under $100,000. Houses in these areas are selling for 40% of their 2006 value.  If the land were free, a completed 5,000-square-foot house would cost twice what an REO is selling for.

There are several government programs which affect the affordability of constructing new houses.  The government decided to throw money at housing because you cannot export those jobs.  The Home Affordability Modification Program subsidizes banks for reducing the principal amount owed on houses.  This subsidizes those who were profligate in their purchases and made bad decisions.  So what is your neighbor who is upside down and making payments likely to do?  Quit paying the mortgage.  What is the responsible person who paid a large down payment or paid cash for a house going to do?  He’s going to subsidize the fool, but most of those fools have lost their houses even after a modification.

OSHA Obstacles

The Fed is giving the banks 0% money.  Mortgage rates are the lowest they have ever been. This encourages the purchase of existing houses and new construction, but it can’t continue.  The only reason large public home builders can take advantage of this is because they purchased developed lots at 20% of development costs (i.e., land was free) during the recession.  But the number of new house sales is still less than 25% of the peak.  They have gotten “cheap” down to a science and have enormous efficiencies, such as production line-type methods in labor and bulk material purchases.

After Arizona Gov. Janice Brewer wagged her finger at President Obama, hundreds of OSHA inspectors were sent from the Northeast to Arizona.  Builders now had to scaffold any wall over six feet high.  Every single-story building needed complete scaffolding for stucco.  The scaffold was actually in the way. Anyone ascending a ladder needed someone else to steady it. Labor costs rose 15%.  Beware the government.

FHA gives loans with minimal down payments.  This encourages home purchases, but increases the likelihood of foreclosure.  It subsidizes one industry at the expense of others.  It creates false demand, and yet new construction is still moribund. CEQA and NEPA create enormous costs and time delays (time is also money for) for environmental reports.  In the last six years, the federal government has paid environmental groups $4.6 billion in legal fees to sue ourselves.  When the existing completed lots are exhausted, the price of completed lots will quintuple, and there will be time frame when they will not be available.

China’s Bubble

China’s consumption has increased demand manyfold. It has built a system of bullet trains which don’t produce enough income to pay operating costs, let alone the billions of yuan interest on the bonds.  They have created cities with over a million residential units which are 10-15% occupied. Their buildings decay at incredible rates and collapse in earthquakes because of shoddy materials and building practices. There are enough see-through buildings to satisfy demand for 20 years.  Nobody and no country can expand at 11% compounded for twenty years without paying the price. Carlo Ponzi’s scheme lasted a year.  Madoff’s scheme lasted almost 30 years.  The USSR lasted almost 60 years.  When will China’s bubble burst?  Who knows?  When it does, materials should decrease about 50%.  Construction labor has decreased up to 50% in the last 3 years.  At that point, buyers will be paying about a 10-20% premium for a custom home as opposed to a tract house.  And I may be able to quit practicing law, which produces nothing, and drains productive capital from the system, and go back to my passion.  I’m sure you all need a house like the ones I design and build – if the feds and California Prop. 30 don’t suck you dry.

***

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  • John Jay December 7, 2012, 3:31 am

    Gary,
    ” If so than President Bush did a great job reading to those kindergarten kids and pretend not to know what to do, or what was going on.”

    Gary, that is a perfect description of W’s Presidency!
    If there were any evil goings on it was Darth Cheney calling the shots.

    As far as who or what brought down those towers, I feel that issue will lead you down the wrong path, just like arguing over who had JFK liquidated.
    The important issue is, what were the results that followed 9/11?
    Congress passed the Patriot Act in a heartbeat without reading it and trashed the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And that Patriot Act was ready and waiting for the main chance to ram it through.
    Just like the Enabling Acts after the Reichstag fire.
    Exactly like the Enabling Acts.
    And you have all read Goering’s remarks to Gustave Gilbert at Nuremberg:
    “Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denouce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

    “That is easy”
    Looks like the Reichsmarschall wasn’t kidding.
    And if you google “images for Reichsmarschall” the first image you see is Dick Cheney’s head photoshopped
    onto H G’s uniformed torso!

  • DK December 6, 2012, 9:21 pm

    Gary (and any other doubters) please view the following 5 minutes of hilarity/brilliance – it doesn’t go into the causes, just the outrageous theories we’ve been given:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

    Please watch more than once, and LISTEN.

    Perhaps that will assist you in pulling your head out of your a__ (don’t forget to shake the corn out).

    Rick, apologies for being off topic and the vulgarities.

    &&&&&

    Brilliant, no question. But does it mean we have to credit the amazing success of 9/11
    to those world-class bunglers at the CIA? Being Jewish, I am not too keen on the Mossad story.
    RA

    • redwilldanaher December 7, 2012, 12:13 am

      It doesn’t surprise me at all that Gary types swallow it all right down the line. They are either afraid to face the truth, fully zombified or collaborators.

  • Robert December 6, 2012, 7:13 pm

    Only one comment about houses in general, and mansions in particular.

    As forms of Prestige, status, and envy-generation among friends/neighbors/strangers, they are as ideal as a trophy wife (or a boy toy) with 0% body fat (or carrying around 10 extra pounds of silicone).

    As wealth, houses/mansions have two VERY crucial failing: portability, and cost of maintenance.

    As Will demonstrates in his commentary- the fancier the house, the more likely it is to wilt to the forces of entropy.

    Perhaps the vaulting costs of physical Gold are not so pale in comparison…? You tell me.

    If being “wealthy” and exercising your penchant for “prestige”, and being able to impress your friends and neighbors comes at the cost of having to wall yourself in, and wave to a geriatric security guard every day as you wait for him to open and close the gate every time you come and go, then are you really FREE?

    I know many people who intentionally build, and then willfully choose to reside in, some of the biggest, fanciest, most utterly absurd prisons I have ever seen; and once a week, they take their daily furlough, get in their cars, and meet me at the same fancy golf club where we agree to the friendly wager that will anchor our personal desire to compete at our level best on that particular day, and you know what…?

    I am regularly amazed/amused that the amount of the wager typically tends to create more stress on THEM than it does on me, and it usually comes down to:

    “Well, I need to fix a hole in the stucco in the prison wall this month”, or, “I blew my cash this week installing some new security system that uses a satellite uplink to tell the cops to come running if my alarm goes off”… etc.

    I just KNOW that one day, one of them is going to hit me with ” I can only play for a buck a hole this week, because I’m having an alligator-filled moat installed around the property- complete with a drawbridge and a flaming oil pot on the roof….”

    Ahhhhh- To live like a King…. No friggin thanks. I’d rather they each had more cash to surrender to me following the 18th hole on the golf course each week 🙂

    I revel in the absurdity of it, and yet- in their minds, it is I who is the weird one; due to the fact that prison life (home, guard shack, work, gym, dinner, guard shack, home, rinse, repeat) has absolutely no appeal to me.

    Insanity, it seems, carries an attribute of clique-ishness to it. I feel blessed (or lucky) that I chose to leave those attitudes behind after High School…

  • DK December 6, 2012, 6:55 am

    Look into Judy Wood’s explanation involving directed energy. Check out the “Hutchinson Effect.”

    http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/jj/JJ4.html

    Tesla’s creativity unleashed, just like HAARP.

    Building 7, was controlled demolition. Larry Silverstein, WTC complex owner, admitted so much in a 2002 PBS interview.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jPzAakHPpk

    That implies that it was rigged for demo, PERIOD. Hmmm, what were the contents of that building??

    People who doubt the alternative explanations should take it up with William Rodriguez, a maintenance worker of building 2 and last man out , as well as the 1,750+ professional engineers and architects that dispute the commissions findings as BMac mentioned above. Also, Professor Stephen Jones, Physicist, formerly of BYU.

    • gary leibowitz December 6, 2012, 7:05 pm

      Building 7 does not make a conspiracy. It was the headquarters of all government activities. It had very sensitive information in it. To evacuate the building first, not causing any deaths, and demolish it is not so far fetched. In fact it might even seem logical.

      That does not mean the whole attack was a scam. If so than President Bush did a great job reading to those kindergarten kids and pretend not to know what to do, or what was going on.

    • DK December 6, 2012, 7:57 pm

      Gary,
      I am guessing you looked RIGHT PAST the part where I pointed out “it was RIGGED for DEMO, PERIOD.”
      You were saying?

    • DK December 6, 2012, 8:00 pm

      Gary,
      Just stop. You have gone above and beyond proving how naive, ignorant, beguiled, gullible, and foolish you can be.
      I’m done, this is useless.

    • Rick Ackerman December 6, 2012, 10:43 pm

      Hmmm. Maybe I’ll ring up Mark or Doug Loizeaux and have them debunk this entire, misbegotten (by Gary) thread. Their father (Jack, who died in 2000) virtually invented “controlled demolition.” As a reporter working for the Atlantic City Press in the early 1970s, I got to know the family when their demolition firm, CDI, brought down the Traymore Hotel. That is still one of the largest controlled demolition job ever undertaken.

      &&&&&&&

      I called CDI — still a family-run firm — and, understandably, they long ago tired of fielding calls from reporters and responding to myriad technical questions pushed by 9/11 conspiracists. Suffice it to say, it takes weeks of intensive, hands-on preparation by dozens of workers merely to demolish a 10-story Holiday Inn, never mind the Trade Towers and Building 7. RA

  • KS December 6, 2012, 5:08 am

    And I stick to my opinion that Gary is a troll on pay or without. No sane person keeps coming back, without an agenda, to a place where he is unwelcomed mostly, just to agitate and stir things up some more. Either he gets paid or gets a perverse enjoyment out of the whole thing. Conveniently ignoring direct questions and avoiding others, talking up his line of reasoning. Dates and prices Gary!!!..Rick – set up a tracking position please for Gary’s trade in touts…maybe we will learn something new.

    • gary leibowitz December 6, 2012, 7:01 pm

      KS,
      You already ignored my specific calls of enrty and exits since the summer.

      Just for you I will give you specific dates/prices/bets one day after it occurs for the next 3 bets. Hows that!

      I am expecting my next bet will happen within one months time. Hope you can wait that long.

      Just 3 though. I will not be the cause of anyone wishing to follow me, win or lose.

      &&&&&

      Now wait. I thought that you were already long 3x ETFs up the wazoo? RA

    • gary leibowitz December 7, 2012, 9:34 am

      Now wait, I already said I “ONLY” bet 50 percent of my limit. Are you trying to catch me with a lie?

      It would be easy for me to “fake” the past, so I have decided to give the exact date/time/price as it occurs (within 24 hours).

  • KS December 6, 2012, 5:01 am

    And another problem I have with so called ownership of real estate…Why do I have to ask anyone what I want to do with my house or property that I bought. Talking about permits/approvals/inspectors and this other BS, which I have to pay for too. Don’t owners realize they don’t really own their house, if they can’t do what they want with it? Perhaps I am biased, but I truly don’t get what the big deal is about owning a house in USA, considering all of the above.

    • Robert December 6, 2012, 9:00 pm

      Fee Simple Tenant Title means just that.

      You are allowed to be a tenant, just as long as you pay your fees.

      You own NOTHING of your land.

      However- you do reserve the right (via the 2nd and 4th amendments) to defend your “tenancy” if it happens to be within the same structure you call “home” … right?

  • Cam Fitzgerald December 6, 2012, 12:04 am

    Let me just try to slip this one past the moderator….off topic naturally but an important subject nonetheless.

    It is about food.

    Some of you here may already know that I do not believe the US dollar is truly at risk and part of that reasoning is because of the tremendous food resources this country supplies the world.

    The dollars position is guaranteed on the basis of agricultural resources and output that is no less important than Gold itself. Corn, wheat and Soy are the cornerstones.

    So this short article from 3 months back is reposted from one of my favourite sites called Vreaa (a Canadian real estate blog).
    ———————–
    As many of you are already aware there has been substantial social upheaval in Egypt and elsewhere in North Africa on the tail of steep commodity price increases since the global financial crisis.

    I think there is little doubt that much of the turmoil was driven by rising food costs in otherwise stable nations where a majority of the income of the average person is already consumed by food.

    Sharp price hikes for bread, grains, meat and other staples have hurt the poor who were in many cases already struggling to make ends meet. The backlash in Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Syria and elsewhere has been self evident and as an outcome some governments were overturned while others continue in a state of ongoing criisis.

    While some of the difficulties have abated during the past year we are again seeing soft commodity prices on the rise. Soft commodities (for those who are unfamiliar with the topic) refer to those products like Rice, Oats, Soybean, Sugar, Wheat and Corn that are traded on the large public international exchanges. The prices for these products and others are set and reset continually and are currently being bid up steeply on the basis of poor agricultural data from the United States.

    In addition, in the past months we have seen announcements of Quantitative Easing or other Central Bank and Government stimulus coming from all parts of the world including the European Union, the US, Japan and China.

    These are significant and broad based and give us an early warning indicator into further rounds of food price hikes across the globe as excess capital finds its way into the speculative grain markets.

    A quick look at the price charts for Wheat or Corn tell us unequivocally that the Third World and developing nations are about to face another round of “food shocks”.

    How do I know that?….Futures markets of course. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that inflationary pressures are on the rise for the most essential of our daily needs. In Africa it is a daily reality already although little press exists on that subject.

    Food prices are again marching higher.

    Why I am concerned is that the “Easing” we are seeing now is coming on the heels of a devastating drought in the US that saw much of the Corn crop fail. The US is currently the worlds largest exporter of corn and a lack therein means that prices for alternative grains will spike in concert with the rising costs of corn as supply diminishes or local demand further reduces stocks.

    Some of you may already appreciate that commodity prices are set globally and thus what happens in the US with a Corn failure immediately leaks through to the developing world. Those countries like Egypt who depend upon imported grains to feed their people will feel these changes most accutely.

    A shortage of Corn thus immediately translates into price increases for Rice, Wheat and cooking oil. Some time later we also see a proportional uptick in the cost of beef, pork and chicken. Indeed, most of the worlds commercial meat stock is also grain fed and so as input costs rise the end product (meat) comes at a steeper price.

    It is bad enough that some people will have difficulty buying basic grains in the coming months. Even worse when they can no longer afford even one chicken. A lot of people are going to be very, very angry as this reality sets in.

    No country meanwhile has any immunity to the sharp price changes we have recently seen on the various commodity exchanges. Corn and Wheat have both spiked significantly within the past months. Between mid June and mid July both of these essential crops shot up by over 50%.

    Those hikes have not yet been felt in the supermarket though due to the nature of the commodity buying and selling and the time lag between commodity contract purchases, expiration and the flow through to the retail level.

    But it is coming and it is coming very, very soon.

    So with these two ideas in mind (the US corn crop failure and current Easing policies) designed to reflate the global economy, we are now seeing significant headwinds develop where food is concerned that will negatively impact poorer countries.

    We should therefore be prepared for disruptions, protests and political instability in poorer countries as the reality of these changes flow through to all levels of the supply chain and eventually hit the retail level.

    Indeed, we will soon see serious price hikes in meat and cooking oil as a direct outcome of the Corn disaster and so this is one other event that should be on your radar.

    Furthermore, this is just the first year of a poor crop cycle in the US and it is not inconceivable that the coming season will be equally dismal thus putting significant upward pressures on global grain stocks which are already far too low.

    I believe these events have the potential to induce considerable inflationary pressures both in North America and abroad at all levels of the marketplace.

    Apologies for being off the real estate subject but this is just too important a topic and I think it needs commenting on. I will again add that the impending risk of war in the Mid East with its potential to disrupt energy flows is a compounding factor that in concert with “Easing” and a growing food shortage problem could have significant inflationary impacts on the whole globe in the near future.

    We will know where we stand by mid summer if US crops are stable.

    • Oregon December 6, 2012, 12:35 am

      Come on Cam, you are a smart guy. Surely you know everything is interconnected. Can’t you at least get a little creative and relate it to construction and real estate? I think Rick should should remove your post just for lack of creativity; make you write some stuff on the chalkboard or something.

  • wayne siggard December 5, 2012, 10:06 pm

    Erin and Oregon – Oregon is right, except that I buy factory direct out of Europe at an 80-85% discount. You can’t build 20,000 s.f doing the labor yourself. The bigger the crew, the bigger the overhead. The more skilled, the higher the hourly rate. The bigger the job, the more likely you will be subject to additional government oversight. Instead of romex and switches and plugs, we use conduit and computer controlled Lutron systems. Doors run $800-2500 apiece instead of a $36 hollow core slab door.
    Regarding age in housing valuations. In most houses older than 40 years, electrical and plumbing systems need to be torn out and redone. Brownstones are masonry structures. Unreinforced masonry is no longer allowed in earthquake country. Masonry does not have the termite problem that stick framed construction does.
    Three examples:
    Castle Drogo in England was the “last” castle built in England, from 1911-1931. It was built of local granite. Unfortunately, the porosity of the local granite was poor. The waterproofing was not done properly. The National Trust recently spent $6 million to re-waterproof the building.
    Steve Jobs bought a house in Woodside, CA, designed by one of the great 1930 architects, George Washington Smith in 1984. It was 14,540 s.f. It was dilapidated. He sought to tear it down and build a new house, but he didn’t get approval to do so until 2010. If you don’t constantly keep the property up, in 50 year, the property can be a tear down, even if it is constructed of granite.
    I did a remodel for a well-known Hollywood celebrity. The house was built in the 1930s. We were going to add 450 s.f. and redo the interior. There was a balcony built between two wing of the house. When we opened the wall, we discovered the posts supporting the beam holding up the balcony had been eaten away by termites. The only thing holding up the balcony was stucco. We had to tear down the house to its foundation and rebuild it.
    On an 8400 s.f. house on five acres, between taxes (3,000), maintenance, utilities, and gardeners, the monthly costs were $8,000 per month; and that doesn’t include any mortgage costs.

    • Oregon December 6, 2012, 12:27 am

      Wayne,
      Thanks for sharing your experience(s). Your piece has stirred up a lot of thoughts for me; almost too many and I am having a hard time focusing.

      I think in some ways we are cut from similar cloth. I have been in construction my entire life, both landscape and home construction and have always appreciated how architectural elements flow outside to in and inside to out. l dream the whole picture and strive to exercise my vision as much as I’m allowed. I would say I was just starting to hit my stride when the economy collapsed. Luckily I don’t have a law degree to fall back on (no disrespect), so I plug along on whatever comes up.

      I have always been real conservative with my own finances so I didn’t get caught off guard and I have to say that I am happier now than ever. I spend more time with my wife and kids, the projects I take on are smaller and less stressful and the people are much more appreciative than the ‘million dollar babies’. The bigger the budgets the crazier it is. The amount of waste is sickening. And to be honest the lifestyle of the big spenders is sickening. I appreciate being able to hone my craft and watching other craftsmen do the same, but what a soulless existence many of these ‘wealthy’ people live. I wonder how you feel about that aspect; about being around that much decadence and waste.

      Your last paragraph is profound. Many clients who had just come into money and wanted to enter the pissing contest had no idea what kind of money it takes to maintain that lifestyle. That is one of the first things I address with people is how much effort is involved in keeping up a large custom house and landscape, not to mention lighting, heating, and water bills. Most don’t hear it, but at least I said it.

      By the way that same 8400 s.f. house on five acres in Oregon would cost at least double that in taxes, depending on the county.

      Up here we call them McMansions. These are the 5000- 8000 s.f. houses that people dreamed of building and now have the reality of owning. They are expensive to heat and maintain, they are in the suburbs far from services, and they are zoned for one family. They are dinosaurs that are only five years old, and are the future of contracting in my opinion. Remodels.

      Thanks again Wayne, enjoyed your article.

  • Carl December 5, 2012, 8:51 pm
  • ter December 5, 2012, 7:58 pm

    Conspiracies are real, not theoretical. Read history. Most national governments are conspiracies of the rulers against the ruled, in general, and, specifically, factions among the rulers competing for preeminence. A man acting alone cannot attain control; he must have allies, co-conspirators, as well as those following orders, and ignorant dupes acceding to his rule, often from fear, ignorance, or a sense of impotence. Brutus and his colleagues didn’t all bring daggers to the Senate on the Ides of March because they felt cool against their flesh.

  • Benjamin December 5, 2012, 6:40 pm

    To second Buster, this is a pretty fascinating article. Well, roughly half of it is anyway (see below). And the pictures of Mr. Siggard’s completed works are something to see. Very nice work. A “tad” out of my range, though!

    But I was so upset with the entire “OSHA Obstacles” section. Nothing new, and that’s the problem…It’s all designed to work against the real economy, for which the “only” answer seems to be more, more, more spending and calls to soak “the rich”. The nerve of our [long string of explitives] government. Sad and angering, but very true.

    Anyway, thank you for the inside look.

    9/11 and bets (i.e. Gary): It figures you would come back TODAY, after having had two days with the previous commentary to speak your peice. How friggin’ rude to dance off-topic like that, and in such a way as to get under enough peoples skins to provoke their responses. You remind me of a cat that I used to have…

    • gary leibowitz December 5, 2012, 6:55 pm

      I am busy with my 90 year old father in the hospital. Sorry I couldn’t accommodate you. As for the constant reliance on conspiracies to prove your points it gets tiring rather quickly.

      Can you recount all the conspiracies that have been proposed here? In every single article presented the explaination has always been the same.

      You seem to live in a world where every aspect of your lives is concealed. Everything? What would you call such a person?

      Ahh, but wait. If a statistic or data point falls your way you grab it!

    • Benjamin December 5, 2012, 8:07 pm

      Gary,

      Mean as this will sound, I don’t care what your excuse is for waiting until now to say something. What bothers me is that you choose to be an inflammatory motormouth, when it would’ve been _very easy_ to have said your piece in the relevant, recent topic and posted the link to it here, today…

      …instead of setting off a 9/11 discussion over a topic that someone was kind enough to take the time to write and share (as if the people you don’t like are so awful as to warrant that!).

      I’m talking basic freakin’ manners here. And because any sensible person surely knows those things, I dare say that you did what you did simply to be an @ss.

      As for “my world” and “concealed lives” and “data points”… I neither know nor care what you’re rambling/baiting me about. I’m done with ya. I give my apologies to the forum and Mr. Siggard for taking the space to address a douche…I mean, dude. No, the former term was right!

    • gary leibowitz December 6, 2012, 6:54 pm

      Ben,
      What you really mean is that I attack the brotherhood you have on this site. You can just ask Rick to take the offensive people off.

      BTW, do you actually hear what is being said on this site? Off topic? Just look at the regulars here and tell me they are on track.

  • ter December 5, 2012, 6:24 pm

    Fine commentary Buster. “Let them eat cake”, supposed the naive Marie Antoinette. Today, it’s let them eat grass. Remember also Shylock’s “pound of flesh” was to be taken from above the heart, to kill the Christian merchant debtor. The law, as explained by Portia in disguise, saved Antonio, and ruined Shylock. Contemporary law, thus far, has sided with Shylock..

  • DG December 5, 2012, 5:43 pm

    It will be another 20 years before anyone “knows” what happened on 9/11. I do like J Ventura’s comment though, when jabbed about being a conspiracy nut: (I paraphrase) “So you are telling me that the US govt’s explanation is not also a conspiracy theory? 19 guys, who couldn’t pass basic piloting skill tests, flew these planes some in patterns that real pilots say were “impossibly difficult”, conspired with the help of a leader from a cave in Afghanistan to breach the security of the most advanced, secure Country in the world, with the largest and strongest military. THAT isn’t a bizarre conspiracy theory?”
    Truedat.
    THAT is logic. I have no idea what the truth is, but my BS meter has been fried long ago, and I believe their rendition of the “investigation” about as much as I believe every piece of economic data they spoon feed us.
    BTW, the government didn’t volunteer any investigation. They had the usual suspects rounded up before you could say, “what, who or why”. The “Jersey Girls” widows forced Congress to put it together. Evidence from the crime scene was immediately removed…including key witnesses.
    But hey, it was all worth it. We were able to invade the Middle East, kill who knows how many people, creating massive economic and social instability… for what? oil? Now we are stating that US energy independence is right around the corner…
    I know 6 Iraq and Afghanistan vets personally. They all have their stories. Good men, one and all. And they universally agree that the whole shebang was well-steeped in BS….from 9-11 on. And all of them joined because they felt patriotic duty….I just listen. I tell them to focus on the fact that they did good, based on the info they had.

    There is somewhere north of 500,000 vets with PTSD. Unless you have spent time with them, you cannot appreciate how real it is. And there’s us. I encourage everyone to reach out to these guys and help them. If you can get them to talk, listen to their stories of combat and I doubt you will go away unsympathetic. What we asked these guys to do was not cool, in my opinion. Multiple tours, with anti-depressants and sleep meds, in a combat zone with sketchy rules of engagement is not the way to treat your soldiers. So treat em right, now. rant off…

  • BMac December 5, 2012, 10:10 am

    Hi,
    Gary the constant wrangler, claiming “logic” as his guide. Ok Gary, you the man…just google ae911truth.org , there is alot to appeal to logic there, as it is mainly professional engineers explaining just what DID NOT happen. Ok, good luck.
    http://ae911truth.org/

    And , oh, there were NO planes on 911, it was bombs. Google that too, old boy.

  • KS December 5, 2012, 7:04 am

    If I may ask a relevant question…
    Why do house valuations not reflect the age? I understand some basic differences in asset classes and that real estate certainly has a different set of rules that any other commodity out there. However I still cannot grasp, why a 50-70 year old house/building should be valued anywhere close to a fresh modern home less than 5 years old. I know they aren’t, but the difference is not that great. A car after 20 years looses 90%+ of its value, yet it still can be a functioning unit. The wear level of a 50 yr old house and risks associated aren’t that much different in my opinion.
    And I do take the factor of land cost out of the equation, as in a regular person looking to buy a place to live and not just for the underlying land.

    Living in NYC, it is especially annoying looking at all this drag around me and wonder where the common sense is. I see absolutely no benefit of ownership, except for moral satisfaction, especially since you never truly own it without obligations to anyone(taxes come to mind).

    Funny as it is, but in Russia, ownership of property is very important, mostly because the taxes on property are quite negligible and one can actually pay in full and just pay the utility bills with barely any other financial burden….ironically unlike the USA, where it is always an “asset” that requires monetary infusion and participation in all levels of the tax game, as to not loose in a blink of an eye, that which you paid cold hard cash for.

    • gary leibowitz December 5, 2012, 7:29 am

      So far NYC did not experience any deep drop in prices. I do expect it will happen, perhaps in one or two years time. In my area it is mainly brownstone construction built over 100 years ago by italian immigrants. Ironically it was built for lower-middle income families at the time. I bought in 1987 right before the crash, and after a housing bubble. It lost 20 percent and stayed there for 5 years. After that it took off. Today the prices are absurdly out of control. Young married couples that can’t afford living here do so with the help of their parents. The one family browstone has been quickly replaced by 8 subdivided units. A 700 square foot, one bedroom apartment (coop) is asking over 450K.

    • Oregon December 5, 2012, 6:28 pm

      KS,
      If you throw out location, (which you really can’t), one of the main reasons an old house holds its value is because of inflation. To build a house in NYC or just about anywhere else I suppose, now costs 10 times more than it did 50 years ago.

      The other big reason I would give more value to older houses is that in many cases they were built better than new ones and with higher quality materials, excepting insulation.

      Someone the other day compared new tract housing to stage sets, and it’s hard to disagree.

  • gary leibowitz December 5, 2012, 6:51 am

    Rick, I was asked repeatedly to give you the bets I made and I have repeatedly mentioned them. The SPXL ETF (3x SP500 long) and a short spell with the UGL (2x gold long). I recently got back into both. I believe this makes 4 or 5 reentry points this year. I expect this last one to take off with some volatility in Decemeber. I only committed 50 percent right now. If the trend hold till end of month I will place rest in. Will say again, I am the most optimistic at this point that we see the possible blow-off top. It should last longer than most expect, perhaps to June.

    Regarding WTC, I too have doubts, but I have also heard that a building will implode inward once the super heated fuel melted the structure. Since I have little knowledge of engineering and explosives I can only speculate. I was working a few blocks away at the time it occured. Was it intentional, and set to explode using dynamite? Possible, but why? If it was set before the airplane impact that would imply the administration was involved. If after, that would imply preventing the structure from doing more harm, even with the people trapped.

    People are no more evil or good than say LBJ. Vietnam against the social programs inacted.

    &&&&&&

    50% of what — your net worth? Your liquid assets? Did you buy the indexes, or call options on them? On what date(s)? At precisely what price(s)? RA

    • gary leibowitz December 5, 2012, 7:04 am

      If you were specifically talking about building 7 perhaps you should see this:

      http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

      It has convinced me, and I was there. Some people want to believe in conspiracies even though the point by point arguments get debunked. I deal in logic. To believe such a plot can be orchestrated to perfection is so far off the odds scale that winning the lottery seems a better bet.

    • KS December 5, 2012, 7:18 am

      Just the fact that you touch these 2x-3x ETFs for any longer than a day trade, makes me think you haven’t read the fine print or carefully looked how well(not) they track the underlying and the cost/risk factors involved. Why not make a straight futures bet then? Why even consider these ugly things. But if you are so sure, then buy the options call on the 3x ETF for the real mostrocity 🙂

      As far as 9-11, you certainly gathered your info from the MSM, it seems, and never really questioned anything. Plain school physics, shows that there is no “super heated fuel”…it either burns or it doesn’t…and when it does, it does so at its chemical burning temperature at atmospheric pressure.
      “~825ºC (1517ºF) – maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air – blue flame) ”
      “~1510ºC (2750ºF) – melting point of typical structural steel ”

      You are a smart guy. Think for yourself and don’t let them think for you.

    • KS December 5, 2012, 7:24 am

      As to your debunking911.com site, you have convinced me you are hopeless of critical thinking. As always the paradigm of a lie so big, that one cannot fathom its existence, holds true.
      I knew a couple of people with your mindset, and you wouldn’t believe it until Obama himself would come to your house and say “we did it”. Or it might not be enough still.

    • Chuck December 5, 2012, 6:20 pm

      Gary, if you were near the 911 incident, I would be concerned about my health….all those chemicals in the air after that ‘incident’ were bad for humans to be breathing. ugh. BTW, my very limited understanding of physics from college has always caused me to doubt the MSM’s account of this incident. Who would design a building of that stature without ensuring it would stand up to any situation. My understanding was that it WAS designed in this fashion.

    • gary leibowitz December 5, 2012, 7:04 pm

      Chuck, I worked next to the Nasdaq building, at the end of broadway. During the incident I was in an office that faces broadway. I saw a 200 foot billow of gray smoke slowly engulf people running down the street. It looked like a badly written “C” movie. The builing management was smart to shut the outside vents before it took over our building. I was in that building for many hours, and the sky was totally obscured. I left in the early afternoon walking over the Brooklyn bridge, in a beautiful clear blue sky. Talk about surreal. Someone mentioned there was no planes?

    • redwilldanaher December 5, 2012, 8:07 pm

      Gary, sorry to hear that you have a loved on in the hospital right now.

      Just wanted to let you know that the massive markup from the recent low that was propelled by nothing was obviously linked to 1/4 and year end for many funds and thus their performances and bonuses, same thing in Dec but for fewer firms. Anyone that has been around knows how they treat OPM at all times but especially near quarter and year ends.

    • gary leibowitz December 6, 2012, 6:27 pm

      The index. 50 percent of my current investment exposure, which is 100K. I will not start giving specific dates and prices since you don’t believe me anyway. I had given specific dates of entry and exit in the past but I guess you glanced over them. I know the risks and also know the dangers of holding them for months instead of days. I am aware that prices do not always reflect the true moves over these long periods. Whether I got lucky or not, time will tell. As for my overly optimistic expectation these last 12 months, so far it has been the right call. In fact since the EU/China problem is yesterday’s news, the driving force going forward will be on the domestic front. There is where I think the surprises will come. That and the long standing notion that a 3rd leg of a new high should be seen before the real devastation comes.

      &&&&&&

      Why be coy about it? Just say what price you paid and at what price you intend to stop yourself out. RA

  • Buster December 5, 2012, 6:46 am

    Fascinating, Wayne!
    I’ve spent many years working on some of the UK’s own luxury homes, having some particular talents in a number of construction skills which put me in demand in times gone by, so I found the info particularly interesting. I love houses, & particularly appreciate the higher quality homes & workmanship. I think there are some similarities between the US & Spain’s property market today, though incredibly the UK’s seems to be almost unaware that there’s even been a global financial problem.

    Speaking with estate agents about the general state of the market here in Spain is enlightening.
    While the UK housing market hasn’t really seen much of a sell off, due probably to the yet inflated letting market backed by ‘Buy to let Mortgage’ inequality & government subsidising of rents, the latter only now being partially addressed in the push for austerity cutbacks, the housing market in Spain has been decimated by 50% & more. As an indicator, a luxury home which was 700,000 Euros some years ago has just been sold for an incredible 165,000 Euros! That’s a millionaires home for the price of a 2 bed semi in the UK. This is on the back of a reported 1 million homes seized by the banks & currently being fed into the market now & over the next year…these million properties, seized whilst the banks were getting their bailouts, I might add. So much for the said purpose being to stabilize things, heh?? Only the financial world is of importance, that is apparent, as what can be more destabilizing to an economy than families being made homeless & indebted for life, since the money owed on a mortgage in Spain is never written off, even with the seizure & sale of the property in question. The debt stays with the borrower unless a petition now being raised to bring a change in this law gets enough signatures to bring it before parliament. The extreme despair of the situation can partially be seen in the long list of suicides, including one that hit the news recently of a woman jumping to her death which led the government to call for an end to evictions when families have nowhere to go. Still yet to be enacted, this was more a political gesture to quell the growing sense of disgust than one of compassion, undoubtedly, since on hearing of the large numbers of people gathering food to eat from waste bins, a government minister claimed this was undignified for people to be doing. His empathy extended as far as declaring that all bins must now be locked, apparently to save the hungry from such an indignity!….Spain’s own ‘Let them eat cake’ moment.

    I saw a new homeless guy in the neighbourhood just this week, with two bags half filled with the remains of his life’s work. No bail out for him by the looks of it, & like a sick joke he’s homeless in a sea of empty houses, coupled with people losing all they’ve ever worked for due to a lack of money in a world awash with it. It’s all just a game of margin call, but on peoples very lives. A game played over the centuries to keep all in their ‘rightful place’. The young may be loudly protesting in the city centres with a growing awareness of the con game that is the global debt based monetary system, but there are many who suffer in silence, quietly fading away out of sight & mind. Along with Greece, this country is certainly suffering a martyrdom, a crucifixion on the cross of debt based money on a national scale not seen since Germany prior to WW2…which could be ominous?? The 25% unemployment figure is just a cold statistic. The despair of many is very real indeed.

    However, there are yet some relative winners alive & kicking. The spoils of Spain’s debt war, on the Sheeple level at least, are going to the Scandinavians, Russians & some Chinese who are snapping up as many homes as the auctioneers get handed to sell, apparently in similar numbers to those sold during the boom years, albeit at much lower prices. Insiders believe that prices have about bottomed off, though they may dip a little more over the next year due to the sheer volume of these forced bank sales. With increased legal protection for property owners, easing of residency restrictions for non-European buyers & good letting yields, the time to buy may well be now if you can hang on till the Banksters have had their ‘pound of flesh’. I suspect that such gains will be more inflation based than supported by a sound economy however, since we seem to be fast approaching the end of trend that is, fundamentally, simply fraud & lawlessness on a global scale, as enacted by the two big fish in the pond, Government & the Global Corporatists, which includes the Banksters, in cahoots & otherwise known as ‘Corporate Fascism’. I question what ‘real’ progress can be made in a world of corruption. The inflation based gains will be taxed, the debts will keep sucking currency out of the hands of the Sheeple as a whole & the homeless will continue no matter how many homes get built.

    • Erin December 5, 2012, 9:40 am

      Wayne,
      Interesting article…I also have been directly involved in many types of residential construction from building/gutting houses to just small remodeling and doing everything including plumbing/electrical for the last 25 years with myself doing all types of work except for one or two things to save time. Where do you come up with this 50/50 split on construction costs and labor? Am I understanding you right that materials and labor to the finished price is split 50/50?

      I understand all real estate is local BUT, who could make a dime with that ratio ESPECIALLY on custom homes? I must be misunderstanding something. Just a couple of examples… Roof materials run $2,000.00 and you are saying that it would cost $2,000.00 for labor to put that roof on for a total cost of $4,000.00. Wiring materials cost $2000.00 for the house and the labor is $2000.00?

    • Cam Fitzgerald December 5, 2012, 4:08 pm

      Buster, I don’t want to diminish the value of any individuals life but the whole media spectacle around suicide rates in Spain is just wasted words. It is little more than a manipulative diversion from the problems at hand and serves no better purpose than grandstanding the death of others for another more purposeful and political agenda. Those peoples deaths have been misappropriated into the circus of political debate and anyone who uses their names as fodder to get a few cheap points should be ashamed.

    • Buster December 5, 2012, 5:07 pm

      Yes Cam, I agree, but I think these ‘events’ are very unwelcome for the politicians, who are themselves trapped by the market. They really just want to keep a lid on the situation.
      The suicides in question are apparently directly related to the evictions, as in a similar incident of a 70 year old who tried to set fire to his home when the banks were set to take it. I believe he’s now serving a long prison sentence. When you consider the resulting life sentence of debt still owing that often goes with becoming homeless you can begin to understand the desperation being felt. People are very angry at what they see happening, with the growing belief that it is all just theft by numbers which, as history shows, it truly is.
      There is a sea change in thinking happening as regard the monetary system & those that run it, make no doubt about it.

    • Oregon December 5, 2012, 6:04 pm

      Erin,
      In what you and I might consider a typical project I tend to figure 2 to 1, labor to materials. But in Wayne’s World we are talking about $10,000.00 light fixtures; that’s per light fixture.

    • Cam Fitzgerald December 5, 2012, 11:49 pm

      Thanks Buster. I know you understand.

      There are good reasons that I don’t watch the nightly news though. So much of what is reported is conjured from thin air to support a predefined position and convince all of us that it is correct and right.

      In the case of using the dead, I find it despicable.

      They are not here to speak for themselves nor argue the finer points. Any commentary on behalf of the deceased either for or against is just bullshit in my opinion (no offense directed to you, by the way…I am a fan).