The Eve of Destruction

(Are stocks and Treasury bonds w-a-a-y too revved-up over the prospect of more quantitative easing?  Our good friend Doug B. thinks so, and he is predicting that it’s all about to end badly for the bulls. Americans are about to experience a collapse in the standard of living, says Doug, and there is nothing we can do about it. The good news is that the pain and sacrifice that lie ahead will allow us to rebuild a balance sheet that has left the nation asphyxiated by debt.  A financial advisor based in Boulder, Colorado, Doug is a disciple of the legendary Bob Farrell and an occasional contributor to Rick’s Picks. He is an outside-of-the-box thinker who has gotten the big trends right over the decade we have known him. In the essay below, he builds his argument one brick at a time with “gozinta” and “gozouta” — sophisticated accounting terms representing the generic sum of all inputs into an entity and the generic sum of all outputs from that same entity.  RA

I have two long held and very strong opinions — one about the stock market and the other about the Treasury bond market. I believe that, before the secular bear market in stocks that began in 2000 runs its course, we will be lucky if we do not achieve lower valuation levels than were typical of previous secular bear market lows. That implies a 6% dividend yield and a P/E multiple of eight on the S&P 500. (And I mean the index as a whole — more on that later.)  In addition, I believe that the Great Bull Market in bonds, which began in 1981, will end in parabolic fashion. The consensus will believe that inflation is off the table for at least a generation and deflation is a certainty. A 1.5% yield on a 10-year bond will be rationalized because, with 1% or 2% deflation, that’s 3% real! I believe the time is ripe for these two events to come together, providing us with a spectacular opportunity for a great gozouta and an even greater gozinta. 

 Since the S&P 500 completed its 80% “B Wave” bear-market rally in late April of this year at 1220, it has retreated 17% to the end of June (1010) and rallied back 15% (1160) to form the right shoulder, down 5% from the April peak (funny how the math works). The 10 year Treasury bond yield peaked in early April at 4% and yields have declined continually to 2.4% today with the bond price up over 10%. (In fact, the last time yields were 2.4% the S&P was at 800). What caught my eye was the fact that the S&P and bond yields have dramatically diverged since July 1, when the process of forming the right shoulder began. Normally, stock prices and bond yields move together, so it raises the question of which is accurately forecasting the future. Then again, what is the formation of a right shoulder other than an opportunity for the smart money to sell?

Wall Street ‘Wisdom’

Conventional Wall Street wisdom interprets the divergence as follows: Since the outlook for growth is challenged, the Fed will most likely engage in quantitative easing in the event that the economy falters. That will be good for stocks because some significant portion of the money they “print” (whatever that means) will find its way to buyers of stocks. It is assumed that the buyers of stocks are the proprietary trading desks of the primary dealers that the Fed injects with cash in exchange for the Treasury bonds they buy in the QE; and the hedge funds that those same banks supply leverage to in their role as prime brokers. Under normal circumstances, the public would be in there somewhere too, but they seem to have left the building. The Treasury bonds are rallying (yields falling) because investors are anticipating the Fed buying them when they embark on QEII. Of course, that is kind of circular, but let’s move on. In addition to stocks and bonds going up, so are gold and commodities because the dollar is becoming more of a fiat (or was that Alfa Romeo?) currency. One has to believe that dollars are somehow different from Treasury securities, but, once again, let’s move on. One also has to believe that Europe and Japan somehow have it more together than the good-old USA, which is ridiculous (it’s actually Brazil and China and India that are such garden spots).

Layered across the whole conventional wisdom (because we all need to invest for the long haul) is the idea that the Fed will succeed eventually in engineering a self-sustaining expansion and inflation (or hyperinflation if we’re really fortunate) will be the by-product. In this way, the long bond can be finally proven to be an irresponsible asset allocation choice and the Ibbotson Chart can return to its former glory. Asset appreciation will once again outperform compound interest!

Where We Are 

OK, so here is my alternative interpretation of where we are: The decline in Treasury bond rates since early April is similar to the decline that began in June of 2007. The rate on the 10-year dropped from 5.3% to 3.5% between June 2007 and March 2008 (just before they taped the $2 bill to the revolving door at Bear Stearns headquarters). You can remind me why everyone thought the rally in bonds then didn’t mean anything. But it presaged the Financial Crisis. Back then, after the decline in rates (that was not accompanied by a drop in the S&P 500), the Treasury Department and the Fed came to the rescue and bailed out Br’er Stearns. (I mean Bear Stearns. Br’er Stearns was in the Uncle Remus stories). This time around, after the decline in rates (that has not been accompanied by a drop in the S&P 500); we will get the Economic Crisis. This time, the Fed and the Treasury Department are out of bullets. They do not have the tools to coax a return to private sector borrowing this early in a secular credit collapse. There is no one left to bail out.

QEII will replace Treasury bonds with free reserves at the really big banks. The really big banks already have zillions of free reserves and they are finding it challenging to find a suitable investment for them. Very Japanese. Adding another trillion will not make more money available to prop desks and hedge funds. So maybe we should just take the collapse in Treasury bond rates at face value. It has presaged the next contraction that has now begun without an intervening recovery to allow the economy to catch its breath. That, of course is a dire outlook and one fraught with deflation.

As for the stock market, it is priced at a 2% dividend yield and 18X trailing 12 months reported earnings. That 2% dividend yield includes 0% for Apple and 4.25% for Pfizer. In 1979 when “The Death of Equities” graced the cover of Business Week, the drugs were the growth stocks and sported 2% yields. The boring blue chips like GE paid 8% and the deep cyclicals like Ford paid 10%. Public Service of Colorado did a secondary offering at 11 1/8 with a 16% yield. Those were the days! The S&P in aggregate yielded 7.7%. The P/E was 7.2. Lots of smarter, younger guys and gals than me who can work a computer will explain why it’s different this time. The favorite reason is that, back then, Treasury bond rates were much higher. They were, and a bull market soon began for both stocks and bonds. Rather tortured, trying to equate the two, don’t you think? Rather like alchemy-or apples and oranges. Suffice it to say however, low Treasury rates as a rationale for expensive stock valuations doesn’t hold water. Crazy low P/E ratios were present in the 1940s and 1950s when Treasury rates were lower than today. Stocks get really cheap because the public gets really pessimistic about the outlook and they are afraid of losing money, because that has been their experience for years and years. Then you have more sellers than buyers persistently and usually an alternative asset class that seems so much more sensible and with a better track record too. Sound familiar?

Different, But Not Better 

Today, we have some things that are different, but not for the better. The entire post-WWII period was a credit expansion until three years ago and it ended with a bang. Nobody wants to use the 19th Century as a template for the future. However, we did blow the pages out of the history books with our Real Estate Bubble. This was much bigger and broader than Tulips and all the rest of the manias. In addition we started this credit collapse with a bloated, underfunded bunch of entitlements and safety nets. The next Roosevelt has more fiscal constraints than the last one. And don’t even talk about demographics. Mother Nature appears to have really hit a home run this time.

So it looks like we are entering into the “war to end all wars,” but this time it is not against some foreign power. “We have met the enemy and he is us” (to quote Pogo). It is a battle to rebuild the national balance sheet and we certainly will win, but the national dialogue is still mired in the old paradigm. How can we resurrect demand? This is not a time to be investing for growth. Very soon, it will become clear to the nation that we need shared sacrifice to pay off the debt and that will involve an enormous hit to consumption. Capacity will continue to be eliminated and asset values will suffer. Revenues and household income will remain under pressure for quite a while and profit margins will revert to the mean (and not too far below, if we’re lucky). Sentiment toward risk in the stock market will continue to change as it has in the real estate market.

Hence the gozinta. How tough will it be to buy Wal-Mart when it trades at a 6% dividend yield? Won’t we be afraid that it is headed for 8% like GE in 1979? I think the answer lies in the idea that first, you have to have a gozouta. If the 2039 Treasury Strip goes to 2.5%, that’s up 40% from here. Maybe it’s going to 2.25%, but so what? We will need to remember what Baron Rothschild’s answer was when he was asked how he became the richest man in the world: “I never buy at the bottom and I always sell too early.” Gozinta!

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  • Doug Behnfield October 22, 2010, 3:31 am

    I noticed that the responses are dominated by very emotional, dogmatic people. I thought my essay was really fun and inviting. In the meantime, we all need to allocate our assets and modify our behavior to prosper (in relative terms) to the secular credit collapse. My next essay will be titled “Thoughts on Jubilee” because we are staring it in the face with the latest developments in foreclosure. Also, the Fed is just now signaling that they don’t have the balls for QEII. What an exciting world we live in. Don’t just envy the long Strip, buy it!

  • FranSix October 19, 2010, 12:49 am

    One thing most people miss entirely are where rates are in the repo and short term treasuries. At least you have negative yields in the 10-year TIPS, more reflective of where short term yields should be.

    Preventing negative yields from occurring in every economy by liquifying money markets is driving up prices.

    This is where the ‘money-printing’ is occurring on the most frequent schedule possible, literally propping up only the shortest term interests from being caught with failures to deliver in every aspect of every market, including sovereigns.

  • Imran Razi October 18, 2010, 10:37 pm

    Doug,
    Thank you for writing; very interesting.

    The sentence that stood out for me is the following:

    “Adding another trillion will not make more money available to prop desks and hedge funds”.

    Why not, exactly? Won’t they and don’t they have to do something with the money/reserves/balance-sheet assets? Isn’t it just this that’s been propping up the recent (probably bear-market) rally?

    Thanks, love the forum, welcome all replies

    – Imran

  • Tony October 18, 2010, 8:16 pm

    When this game of musical chairs ends we will head into DEFLATION. I think we could very well see STOCKS and BONDS go down i.e. interest rates go up. Why? because it will become a liquidity crisis and the holders of debt will recognize that they won’t get paid and will liquidate their bonds for cash. So higher rates will actually drive the dollar higher. The volume of debt is far too high for the Fed to simply inflate it away. And hyperinflation actually does far more destruction because Debtors and Creditors get burned as the medium of exchange is destroyed. In a deflation, those who made bad money management decisions get a haircut.

    Anyone who really believes that printing money creates wealth is a certifiable nut. No country has EVER printed its way to prosperity.

  • andequip October 18, 2010, 7:28 pm

    Rick,

    This Foreclosure Scandal thing can go in so many directions, with regard to whom is hurt/not hurt. Ultimately, do you see the “nationalization” of home mortgages, with homeowners making payment to the USG?

    The “fix” to this problems, is for Congress to pass a law stating that the illegal, unethical and perhaps immoral behavior exibited by Wall Street and Big Banks, is forgiven. But, do you see this legislation “getting legs”? I mean, voting for this in the House or Senate, is going to be considered more “big bank bailout” stuff and perhaps the constituency having a BIG problem with another round.

    And, if it is not fixed with legislation, then how long till we see a “big hit” to MBS, which are USG backed? I mean, this could be cause for a lot of investors to “bail” on these securities and seek remuneration through the courts, or perhaps some other method of more immediate relief.

    This thing is a mess on steroids, and I am trying not to get panicked. However, this thing is huge and it is moving quickly.

    What concerns me MOST is the fact that this scenario may manifest itself into vehicles that lead to “elite vs The People” and further proliferation of the Facist Business model, complete with uprisings and civil disobedience!

    • Robert October 18, 2010, 8:19 pm

      “This thing is a mess on steroids, and I am trying not to get panicked. However, this thing is huge and it is moving quickly.”

      It has been a “mess on steroids” for nearly a decade.

      Intersting that the market is ignoring all of it in its blissful march northward, eh?

      Hmmm… millions of American’s screwed by their lenders- solution: give the lenders more easy money
      to lend.

      Hmmm… millions of mortgages underwater- Solution: backstop the holders of the note against the default of the debtor.

      Hmmm… US dollar markets need roughly a Trillion per year in new debasement on order to remain liquid.

      And the real kicker:

      “We need consumer borrowing to kick start consumer spending so that inflation can reach targetted levels” is being spoken by the Fed and Treasury at the exact same time that they are stating: “We see considerable pressure on per capita income growth for the foreseeable future”

      – ummmmm… what? Flat to declining income that needs to result in increased borrowing and spending in the private sector?

      THAT will be a magic trick worthy of David Copperfield’s envy-

      ABBRA CADRABBA! – you may now borrow without collateral, and spend without income… Now get out there and save the economy, you cretins!

      🙂

  • andequip October 18, 2010, 6:21 pm

    Forget the corporate bonds, pension fund in equities, quantitative easing 2, etc. It is the MBSs and their related US Gov’t bonds, which deserve your attention NOW!

    The Mortgage Foreclosure Scandal is very capable of derailing further, an already precarious UST/ US$.

    I have been following this for the last year or so, and I cannot beleive what I am reading today. I just read Jim Willie’s October “Hat Trick Letter” and his report “Firestorm Foreclosure Scandal”, which is contained in his “Crises Coverage Report”. All I can say is WOW!!

    I think there is a little rift between Jim Willie and RA, over the deflation/inflation debate, but that aside you MUST get your hands on this report. He describes the situation that exists today, complete with a description of the players and the dire ramifications for our economy.

    This just may be the catalyst for an upcoming downturn in the financial instruments, such as stocks, bonds, US$.

    Please let me know what you think of the current MBS market, this Foreclosure Scandal and let’s discuss that.

    • Rick Ackerman October 18, 2010, 6:47 pm

      I have no problem with your posting Jim Willie links here. Concerning the inflation/deflation “debate,” I’m wide open to any discussion about how individual mortgage debts are likely to settle, since, with perhaps 60 million homeowners underwater, that’s where the rubber will meet the road.

  • JohnJay October 18, 2010, 6:20 pm

    The set up is right there in plain view.
    Tiny bond yields in a rigged treasury market.
    About 40,000 factories shut down since 2001.
    850 billion dollars in student loans that won’t be paid back and can’t be discharged in bankruptcy.
    Grossly overvalued real estate in California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, etc., on the books of god knows who at make believe values, with 50 States suing over foreclosure conspiracy and cloudy titles.
    China telling us to drop dead now that they have achieved 50 years of industrialization in 10 years at our expense.
    A bloated military that exports death, destruction, and ill will, and sends back dead, mutilated and crazed soldiers at a cost of untold billions.
    A national debt building like an avalanche and a Congress that thinks we are the red hot financial superpower of yesteryear.
    On and on and on.
    You all know the drill even better than I do.
    When push comes to shove, will they cut like mad, ala Great Britain, or print like mad and take all the bad debt off the hands of their corporate friends and screw the rest of us?
    See if you can guess which will happen!

    • Robert October 18, 2010, 8:05 pm

      Reality is scary… but it is also refreshing.

      Nice post JohnJay.

    • SDavid October 19, 2010, 3:31 am

      Exceptional.

    • G.V. October 19, 2010, 4:42 am

      This is what I don’t get. When they print like mad aren’t they taking my 95K mortgage off my hands too? What’s worse, the loss of purchasing power induced by inflation, or me being stuck with a big debt in a currency that has been supported by ‘cutting like mad’? Probably the former, since it effects all my money, and the latter only effects 95K of it, but then the ‘corporate friends’ you’re talking about wouldn’t include the banks, would it? The banks would see the value of their producing loans inflated away.

  • C.C. October 18, 2010, 6:00 pm

    If another repeat of 2008 is in the offing, it will be interesting to see if the world again revolves around the $U.S. or, if that rotation has been altered and if so, to what extent and what effect it might have on commodity prices and for how long.

    I’m not so worried about what will happen here financially – that fate is already sealed for at least the next 5 years, other than the likely domestic outcome will have economics taking a back seat to an Authoritarian boot on the neck of those who might possess the ability to weather such a storm.

  • jagno October 18, 2010, 5:01 pm

    Benjamin,
    I think the reason you didn’t get three quarters of what he wrote is because he’s hard to read.

    • Mac G. October 20, 2010, 6:02 am

      I enjoyed the article. Refreshing.

  • Rich October 18, 2010, 3:11 pm

    Always interesting to see a fellow Merrill alum who may have also read Farrell daily for decades. What caught my eye here was Barry McGuire title, The Eve of Destruction.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwYNWYaS3bI 3:39
    Just posted on JubileeProsperity ‘Imperfect Storm’ after weekend M Class Solar Flares and Friday 275% ISEE C/P opening ratio suggested we could lose 1000 Dow points relatively quickly with pop, snap and crackle.
    Here’s the link to the Death of Equities cover article to compare differences and similarities as Don Regan used to say:
    http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/mar2009/pi20090310_263462.htm
    Quite clear that since the 1981 Merrill Dawn of a New Bull Market in Bonds campaign, Bonds sucked the juice out of most everything else. People expecting $5000 gold may wake up to debt default deflation and a stronger dollar one of these dayz, Japan suggests.
    The fraud failure of QEII may become apparent as elections come and go, speaking of market Michelangelo…

    • Benjamin October 18, 2010, 6:16 pm

      “People expecting $5000 gold may wake up to debt default deflation and a stronger dollar one of these dayz, Japan suggests.”

      Rich, with all due respect, I don’t see that there could possibly be any future hope for the FRN gaining that kind of worth. Whether or not we see 5k gold…

      I can argue either way, but I strongly doubt it will, Not initially, at least. As C.C. pointed out, they’ll have the boots on, looking for anything to stomp. My version is that they’ll be out to save their behinds hitting the ground head on (because their heads are up there. Ha!), thus would likely forbid any investment , without extreme penalty, that doesn’t fit their idea of a good time.

      Maybe they forbid gold investment, but then again…
      How else would they secure any more much needed resources into the coutry, if FRN can’t depreciate vs gold?

      Of course, they could save us all a heap of trouble if they just call it a day and go back to gold ASAP. They won’t, so we’ll probably see strange happenings in gold over the next x years. That’s my prediction. But the FRN is toast no matter what.

    • Steve October 18, 2010, 7:00 pm

      Restate from above:

      Legal Tender silver Specie Coin money is waiting for the People to USE. Why cry foul, when one will not use specie ?

      Perhaps one will not be able to “TRADE”, and gain illegitimately from the labor of others in ‘futures’, options, and other fiat banker dreams.

      Maybe one will not be able to “use” the benefits of the congress’s fraud of the Banking Act of 1913.

      Maybe it would be HARD to do what is right, and use the Real Money that just waits for the People.

      Ask the Mint about your 50 silver Dollar Coin “Double Eagle”; is it Legal Tender ? A 50 Dollar Specie Coin is not Bullion, it is Legal Tender as Coin, unlike a Maple Leaf which is 99.999 fine bullion. (OK congress lies to the people – what’s new)

      Face “Value” ‘Double Eagle’ is 50 silver Specie Coin Dollars – Legal Tender at FACE, Article I, sec. 8, cls. 5.

      Prosecute the governor of your state under Article I, sec. 1o, cls. 1; No State Shall. . .make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts. Oh, your governor will cry about “discharge”, and “legal tender”, but; discharge of what, and legal tender for what corporate body territory ? Refuse to support the political body that will not prosecute the governor of your state – they disenfranchise everyone – why become corporate because it is easy?

      My question; why complain when one will not make use of the Coin / Legal Tender that is available at the Mint ? Doing is hard, and fixing what is wrong with US is hard. The problem is US, not THEM.

    • Benjamin October 19, 2010, 1:18 am

      I didn’t see this post before, Steve. Wasn’t ignoring.

      I know where the responsibility lies. BUT, I’m using psychology. Tell people the Fed has a vault full of gold that is, when all is said and done, theirs, this “might” overcome their resistence to the idea of gold and silver money.

      The biggest problem is that they either can’t afford it or they’re nervous about the price changing. They won’t/can’t divorce from the idea that FRN is devaluing and that gold is… gold. They’ve been too long under the influence.

      So they’ll need that shove such what I and, now, Gary North apparently, are providing. THAT will get them thinking about it. Meanwhile, we can still demand of our reps in government to end the Fed.

      Burn the candle at both ends, and we’ll get there all the faster, yes?

    • Mac G. October 20, 2010, 6:00 am

      ‘Burn the candle at both ends, and we’ll get there all the faster, yes?’

      Benjamin, are you at least carrying us mint eagles?
      For me, I always carry the silver eagles. An example of how many I carry and SPEND – today the dryer was clanging quite loudly. At the end of the cycle there was a silver eagle. Apparently from a pant pocket. Silver eagles are just pocket change to me. When will they be pocket change to you? When will you take action?

  • Ashet Kikani October 18, 2010, 12:13 pm

    In the last 18-20 months i have heard these kind of doomsday scenario emanting from US based “experts” and guess what? The markets are way up and those who follow such advice are left holding an empty bag.

    In life and in stock markets, it is alright to say “I am sorry, I was wrong” and move on. But these experts have failed to do so. Remember even if a sotck market does come about, say 10-15% , it is fairly normal after such a huge upmove. Also even a broken is right two times a day!!

    Let me ask a simple question: Are these experts short in the market since March 2009? If not, then they’d better put their money where their mouth is and if they do not want to then this is all really a hocus-pocus.

    I am still waiting for the financial world to end since March 2009.

    • Rick Ackerman October 18, 2010, 5:02 pm

      Thank you, Ashet, for succinctly restating the most tiresome, wrong-headed post that surfaces in this forum now and then. Permabulls are s-o-o-o boring. And wrong. You should try observing the real world now and then, because you may be, um, misled if all you are watching is the stockmarket.

    • Benjamin October 18, 2010, 6:26 pm

      “Also, even a broken clock is right two times a day!!”

      But are you sure what we’re seeing now isn’t one of those broken-down, correct times?

      “Let me ask a simple question: Are these experts short in the market since March 2009?”

      There is no one consensus plan among experts. Most non-mainstream ones I’ve come across expect everything to go “bonanza” due to HI. Many suggest 20-30% gold in portfolio, minimum (or they were saying, last I checked).

      What it all boils down to is this, my man: They can do as they like and/or do as they must. And you do as you like and/or must. I do what I must. If there’s a better plan than that…

    • redwilldanaher October 18, 2010, 7:34 pm

      I’m glad to see that Rick responded to this commentary. It is very tiresome to read this time and time again. Please don’t assume that because someone can see through the smoke and mirrors they are necessarily short and fighting the market. People that have been around this stuff for a while understand that markets can move contra to their long term macro take on things and they trade them accordingly. Maybe there should be a sign up sheet around here somewhere for those that would prefer to be reinserted back into the matrix should it ever temporarily fail and undesired reality recognition were to set in. Take your pick of countless analogies. It’s football season so how about North Dallas Forty?

  • Benjamin October 18, 2010, 10:58 am

    You’ve obviously a much wider grasp on these matters than I do, so I didn’t even get three quarters of what you wrote. But these stood out…

    1) “…low Treasury rates as a rationale for expensive stock valuations doesn’t hold water.”

    2) “The next Roosevelt has more fiscal constraints than the last one.”

    1) All the more true IF the Fed is/going to be the only buyer/holder of them. But on those pathetic yields, I don’t see how a non-Fed holder has the cash to do anything but stand by and watch yields continue to plummet.

    Perhaps those low yeilds have trickled into stocks, among all bondholders or maybe just the suckers that fall for every rally headline. I mean, with all the QE that has taken place… Shouldn’t stocks be much higher if the low interest buoyancy theory is correct?

    2) Only the guvamint, only the guvamint, only the guvamint… Well, now government is standing on leg, and its only move now is to shoot itself in the foot (right at the time when the ass-kicking contest is full-swing!)

    Even dumping all the govt jobs and other welfare now is not going to change the outcome. Shovel-ready programs? Not that they have such a plan at hand, but even if they did, with global markets rejecting the FRN and domestic markets unable to meet demand?

    Chants of “down with Big Government!” will soon enough be replaced by “Big Government went down”.

    Not to detract from the topic, but over the weekend, Gary North posted something that I just plain didn’t expect…

    http://news.goldseek.com/LewRockwell/1287324000.php

    There’s the answer. Here’s where it’s at…

    http://www.321gold.com/fed/fedgold.html

    Forget about buying gold. For those having trouble convincing friends and family, tell them to DEMAND it, as the sole heirs of what government stole and gave away all those years ago. It’s our only hope.

    • Steve October 18, 2010, 6:38 pm

      Ben, Legal Tender specie money is there, ask the Mint, ask Treasury. Read the congressional record, especially the Senate from the 1985 Bill to return specie money to the People (Oh – they shot Reagan, and then changed the title to The Gold Bullion Act of 1985)

      WHY DON’T THE PEOPLE “USE” the specie Coin that is Legal Tender – Propaganda Works, and the People do not what change, most persons just want easy.

    • Benjamin October 18, 2010, 8:26 pm

      Steve,

      I’ve been looking over a lot of things, but in regards to use of gold/silver coins…

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/

      § 5103. Legal tender

      “United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts. ”

      Until they remove FRN. Until then, I don’t trust government near enough to pay anything in gold or silver coin.

    • Mac G. October 20, 2010, 5:53 am

      Benjamin, you can easily set up private contracts to pay with US Mint gold/silver. I regularly do this with my plumber, tree care, yard care, etc. These folks gladly accept Silver Eagles because the face value (for them to declare as business income) is $1. Yet they get $23+ of value.

  • Steve October 18, 2010, 8:43 am

    QEII = gross manipulation, and hot air to hold a lead bubble in the stratosphere. (propaganda, or fact) What do traders expect, and what does the fed expect to happen within the Laws of Nature? Bernanke and crew have slowed the inevitable, and at the same time made the consequences worse, and longer term. Fewer and fewer bankers, and corporate hotshots are reaping the cream, and certainly the average american worker is seeing no gain, even in the world of enfranchisee benefits and government handouts.

    Interest rates are being suppressed as never before in history as an inverse to the attempt to inflate. Can the artificial ‘never before’ inverse ‘bubble’ interest rates created by Bernanke and crew continue infinitum ? Doug has done a great job of saying NO, and why NO!

    Everyone thinks gold is going up, and up. Everyone thinks hyperinflation is the sure bet. Someone thinks that ‘powers’ can force people to borrow, take out loans voluntarily (not working – yes !). The only thing happening today is ‘forced loans’ by princes inquiring of how much a person might possess so that a ‘sum’ may be taken to the prince’s use, and coin imbased so as change its value. (Bernanke QEII / devaluation frn) Historically all time low interest rates, and fewer/fewer workers working in productive jobs is reality fact. Of the jobs available the ‘corporation’ demands the individual take on the work of 3 for fear productivity might fall. The news says there are jobs, only a person cannot sell their home to relocate, or the person is now not skilled enough to perform the work of 3 people. Productivity accounting has reached a point of no return. One can only create productivity by outsourcing, laying off employes, demanding a worker do three 2008 jobs, to that certain point of no return.

    Bubbles, bubbles, bubbles, bugger ; is there such a thing as an inverse bubble. Bernanke is a student of history specializing in the Great Depression. He is an academic theory maker who has done what, except to wait until he had the chance to prove his doctorate theory. ( I would like to know if Bernanke is now fudging his theory of the Great Depression to save face; it is called the theory of “Looking Good”)(I’m now reading about Japan’s mistakes more than I am reading about
    Bernanke’s doctorate theory) There is always danger when science skews fact to prove a theory. Stock markets always top slowly, crash in waterfalls, and recover in V’s, and gold always rockets up, and crashes back in inverted V’s with wide valleys. (this time is different) We will all get to see the “truth”, and what Doug said seems like the best advice – never buy at the bottom, always sell before the top. For anyone in inverse funds, or short; what broker, or bank will have anything to pay with at the bottom ? Are we holding “Shares of Stock”, ie; Certificates, or promises of some broker ? Are we holding PM, or promises of some broker?

    I guarantee the banker, and CEO will get his before I get mine.

  • Daman Prakash October 18, 2010, 5:15 am

    During late eighties and early nineties when I was studying economics after a career of researcher in Chemistry, my guide used to decry US capital system in the same vein and he would declare collapse of flat money and will spend hours to explain faults in monetary policies pursued by US.

    I grew up seeing Y2K based boom in US economics during late nineties. Nasdaq doom, collapse of dotcom, Afghan, Iraq war seem to revive the doom theory in later half of first decade of 21 st century.

    May be real doom could happen one day but in a life of a trader the moments of opportunity are lost for ever by such scathing phrases.

    In my opinion, in a mutually dependent world, all countries need survival of US greenback, BRICS included.

    Corporate that work and provide employment to millions are better than commodities that are increasingly hoarded for fear of catastrophe.

    • Tom Paine October 18, 2010, 4:19 pm

      What are the corporations going to make without commodites? By bidding up commodities now, speculators are supporting higher prices for producers, which in turn should lead to the higher production that will be necessary if global growth is to continue.

    • Steve October 18, 2010, 6:33 pm

      What of WAGES – they are going backwards in real terms. What about employment – it is falling back every month. Who is going to buy, with what ?

    • Robert October 18, 2010, 7:52 pm

      “Corporate that work and provide employment to millions are better than commodities that are increasingly hoarded for fear of catastrophe.”

      I disagree- it is BUSINESS , not corporations, that provides the benefits you mention (employment and work). There is a clear distiction that you must keep in mind:

      Business is rooted in economic activity- ie: commerce and trade.

      Corporations are rooted in LAW, not in business- and we all know that laws are economically DESTRUCTIVE, not constructive.

      90% of corporations today exist to justify legal action- they do not exist to enable commerce in the free market.