Negative Yields Tighten Deflation’s Grip

Savers and retirees aren’t the only ones getting screwed by interest rates that have been artificially suppressed by central banks around the world.  These days, banks themselves are finding it increasingly difficult to earn even a nominal return on instruments they consider safe. Just last week, Denmark’s Nationalbanken set its deposit rate below zero for the first time, effectively charging commercial banks and others a fee for parking their surpluses in krones. There are numerous reasons why the krone would be a magnet for idle money. For one, Denmark’s economy is among the strongest in Europe. Also, because Danes rejected euro-zone membership in 2000, they enjoy a degree of political and economic autonomy that their neighbors do not have. This will presumably make Denmark less susceptible to the shock waves that follow the inevitable implosion of Greece, Spain, Italy et al. Small wonder, then, that the global stewards of OPM would consider the krone a safe haven even though it now guarantees them at least a small loss on their money. From Denmark’s standpoint, the decision to follow the European Central Bank’s latest rate cut was unavoidable. The alternative would have been to sit idly by as the krone appreciated, hobbling the country’s exports and destabilizing its balance sheet.

Meanwhile, those who have been predicting hyperinflation should have noticed by now that the trillions of euros that have been injected into the banking system are having the opposite effect. For in fact, all those euros have merely weighed down the return on capital with a mountain of liquidity for which there has been no market demand. Moreover, as benchmark rates around the world sink below zero, the U.S. Fed’s vital objective of managing (i.e., promoting)  inflationary expectations lies nakedly exposed as a failure. Under the circumstances, the odds of inducing inflation — other than a few days’ worth, perhaps, on the world’s bourses — seem to be growing increasingly remote. At the very least, negative rates do not bode well for the central banks’ efforts to keep a nearly quadrillion-dollar ($1,000,000,000,000,000) derivatives bubble from mutating into a deflationary black hole. It could do so simply because the income side of the  bubble cannot indefinitely resist the gravitational pull of negative yields on risk-frees.

The Real Burden of Debt

Although we have been in the hard-core deflationist camp since the early 1990s and have written on the topic for publications including Barron’s and the San Francisco Examiner, we were persuaded more recently by the excellent arguments at FOFOA blogspot that hyperinflation was indeed possible if not inevitable. But for now the argument is moot, since it is clear that  deflation is overwhelming the central banks’ collective efforts to keep the economies of the world from collapsing. As this drama unfolds, perhaps the best way to understand the hyperinflation/deflation conundrum is to think of the latter not as a decrease in the money supply as most economists do, but as an increase in the real burden of debt. In this respect, debt deflation is close to suffocating Europe’s economy and seems well capable of doing the same to America’s if the Fed should even hint that it might back off the credit throttle.

Flatlining on Barter

Inflationists would argue that the Fed simply won’t do that — that the central bank will supply whatever quantity of money is needed to keep the financial system liquid. Those who would rely on this outcome should keep in mind that nothing could conceivably be more deflationary than the prolonged bank holiday that might follow a global flash crash.  Anyone who says this cannot happen is not someone whose investment advice you should rely on.  Think it through yourself:  Does it seem at all illogical that on the morning after a worldwide crash, our credit cards having ceased to work in a banking system suddenly bereft of trust, the economy would be running on a cash/bullion-or-barter basis?  At that point Helicopter Ben would have the option of living up to his nickname. And although having the Fed add zeroes to our bank accounts, dispense crates of $100 bills to beleaguered households, and buy up all bonds in all markets might give rise to a fleeting hyperinflationary spike, it could be over so quickly that it would have little impact on an economy already flatlining on barter.

***

Making money in such treacherous markets is going to call for great patience and skill. Click here if you’d like to see how Rick’s Picks approaches this challenge.

  • redwilldanaher July 11, 2012, 4:28 am

    Just wanted to add in my appreciation for Rich and many others that contribute to Rick’s forum, and you too Vlad. There are quite a few longtime regulars like fallingman, Steve, JohnJay, to name a few, that make this a place I visit daily and with an intention to read beyond Rick’s essay.

    I suppose we should enjoy this while it lasts since it is likely on a closure list given the intensity of libertarian thought expressed here.

    I am amazed by the way people still find ways to put their trust in the illusions, yes here too and yes, compensated or uncompensated…

  • Rich July 10, 2012, 11:41 pm
  • gary leibowitz July 10, 2012, 10:19 pm

    Give me a call when you can show me you got it right. 4 years and counting……

    BTW, the latest ARTICLES suggest that next month there will be a big increase in employment. I am sure that will not be the case since you already know what will happen. I will not bother you with details nor will site every artricle I review. It is always from reputable sources, not some blog.

    Imagine I have to defend my bullish call 4 years after a market has doubled. I also have to try and disprove your phantom conspiracy theories. Thats like trying to prove there are no space monsters upon us. I suppose I can start counting each individual on this planet and have them medically examined. Hmmm. Yeah thats the ticket.

  • Rich July 10, 2012, 8:33 pm

    Just bot SPY Jul 134 calls…

    • gary leibowitz July 10, 2012, 8:36 pm

      Nice action. Hope it works out. I see gold is down with the market and Europe is up. Looks like a temporary down move but…

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 10:22 pm

      Thanks Gary and Impaler.
      Bot a few more at better prices before the close.
      We shall see mo’ beta in the fullness of time…

  • Rich July 10, 2012, 8:27 pm

    Just took +28% profits on SPY Jul 136 puts.
    May reload toward close…

  • Rich July 10, 2012, 7:47 pm

    OT? You decide.

    Re:
    “Is it because of the reinforced Constitutional mandate that now allows anyone to own a gun?”

    Huh?

    Gun ownership was legal since before our Bill of Rights were ratified by the states in 1791.

    The history of Totalitarian States is attempting to curtail the right of self defense from law-abiding citizens to convicted felons to parolees to automatic weapons to ammunition, to Nazi collaborator Soros funding UN gun grabs.

    DHS, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin and TSA goons and thugs could not conquer peaceful citizens with an armed populace.

    Government gun grabs ignored ample FBI, 9 states and John Lott U Chicago evidence that crime rates went down when citizens legally armed and protected themselves against armed thugs.

    This included government agents with predator drones killing unarmed civilians, BATF DOJ Federal Marshall Murrah Ruby Ridge Waco Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious false flag gun running grabs with cops put on paid administrative leave after killing unarmed civilians.

    In one case a cop convicted of his second assault was sentenced to ten years in prison, sentence suspended by a fellow government employee Judge and remanded to an all-police panel re keeping his guns, job, badge, benefits, pay and pension:

    http://www.pixiq.com/article/rhode-island-cop-still-employed#comment-63045

    If that doesn’t get through, google/youtube John Adams, Rev Jonathan Ayers, Xavier Bennett, Jose Guerena, Kenneth Harding, Kelly Thomas and 29 others on DrugWarRant and HipHopandPolitics for a sickening reality check on the side effect of the war on drugs and Fed fusion centers arming police with military weapons in violation of posse comitatus.

    Gary, do you think it ok for 0 to have an American citizen kill list?

    So much for Constitutional public servants.

    Gary, with respect for your intelligence, you appear to be living in some dream world of denial, since this market declined since 1422.38 SPX around April Fool’s Day, in real terms since 2000.

    Talk about giving up.

    Your premises are not simply correct, neither supported by evidence or logic.

    I defend your right to post…

    • gary leibowitz July 10, 2012, 8:28 pm

      Police actions were overturned over the many recent years because the Supreme Court declared them unconstitutional. there goes your theory on government control. Police have been trying to restrict gun use and instead we have a wild west mentality toward them. A gun can be purchased and concealed now. Check out Florida. A trend that is sweeping the country. Do you know how many residence of Florida have guns? Check it out.

      You call that progressive. Please check your facts on how many deaths are caused by accidents due to guns. Please check out violent crime stats with nations that do not allow gun ownership. I suppose you will say tat is “rigged” also.

    • Larry D July 10, 2012, 9:59 pm

      gary, you might want to examine your statistics to see how many of those accidents were actually suicides. If you got your information from Michael Moore, he didn’t trouble himself making any distinction.

      Aside from terrorist actions, what is the violent crime rate in Israel? What about Switzerland, or Finland? You would probably be the first to call those gun-owning nations progressive.

      btw- Steven Spielberg has one of the finest gun collections in the country, and he ain’t no Tom Selleck.

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 10:17 pm

      South Africa, Colombia, El Salvador, Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Swaziland, Brazil, Estonia, Panama, Mexico all have higher firearm death rates than USA, and guess which countries restrict gun ownership the most?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

      District of Columbia, where guns are outlawed, has the highest firearms death rate in the USA, 21.7 per 100,000 population. Florida is #21 with 12.2 per 100,000. Hawaii, which does not even license gun owners, is lowest with 2.6%.

      As guns are outlawed, only criminals and government will have guns…

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 10:26 pm

      Correction:
      HI with 2.6 firearm deaths per 100,000 and no licenses required for guns:

      http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/florida-firearms-death-rate

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 11:10 pm

      From the Encyclopedia of Chicago:

      “Gun Control
      Since the early 1970s, Chicago and its suburban municipalities have taken a national lead in enacting firearms control legislation. Citizens’ groups such as the Committee for Handgun Control, formed in 1973 and renamed Illinois Citizens for Handgun Control in 1982, have worked together with city politicians and police to pass some of the nation’s toughest gun control laws. Mayor Richard J. Daley was outspoken in his stand against gun rights activists, testifying before U.S. House subcommittees on gun violence in 1972 and creating a special court to process gun crimes. In response to rising gun violence by the end of the 1970s, several Chicago aldermen began exploring the idea of a freeze on handgun registration.

      In 1981 the suburb of Morton Grove became the first municipality in the United States to ban the sale, transportation, and ownership of handguns. When a federal judge upheld the ban, the village attracted national attention. The National Rifle Association began a campaign in many states to push for legislation that would preempt gun regulations by municipal governments. The campaign was unsuccessful in Illinois. In 1982, Mayor Jane Byrne and the city council began to hold hearings on an ordinance proposed by alderman Ed Burke banning the further sale and registration of handguns in Chicago. Receiving strong support from Byrne and her allies, and coming in the wake of the assassination attempts on President Reagan and Pope John Paul II, the ordinance passed. All residents who purchased and registered their handguns prior to January 1982 were allowed to keep their weapons. Chicago became the first major city to enact a handgun freeze in United States history.”

      Since the dual Israeli/US citizen 0 chief of staff became Mayor of Chicago, gun homicides are up 38%, averaging about 450 a year, blamed on gangs.

      http://news.yahoo.com/homicides-spike-chicago-mayor-defends-tactics-004217621.html

      So basically, Gary, corporate government laws and wars on citizens, drugs and guns keep criminality, homicides and prices up, one reason Ron Paul could still be nominated and elected President despite the big chill from Corporate MSM…

    • redwilldanaher July 11, 2012, 12:13 am

      It’s great to read that you are consistently wrong across the board Gary. Amazing how you have had your head handed to you in this thread as well.

    • mario July 11, 2012, 5:53 am

      Too simple Rich…no guns in China…one ofvthe safest places in the world to live and I love that aspect of being here as do all the expats I know… Guns do absolutely nothing to make a society a better place, nothing! Right to defend oneself against tyrannical govt leaders is a joke, as they have the firepower and manpower to crush you if they wish…Cheers, Mario

  • redwilldanaher July 10, 2012, 7:04 pm

    To borrow a cliche, Gary’s silence on LIEbor is deafening.

    Gary, your comments above with regard to data points is laughable for obvious reasons.

    If the markets are always right then what say you with respect to the US equity markets in the Fall of 2007?

    If the markets aren’t rigged then explain to us why the President’s Working group was established.

    You are either naive beyond comprehension or a shill.

    Conspiracy>Propaganda>Hyper-Manipulation>OPM Alpha Monkey “followers”>Higher Equity Prices

    Maybe you should spend some time reading at DeepCapture, which btw, only scratches the surface of small timers….

    • redwilldanaher July 10, 2012, 7:24 pm

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nWvs8l7fkFE

      Biderman sees your glorious bull run as rigged, is he crazy too Gary?

    • gary leibowitz July 10, 2012, 8:53 pm

      Biderman did exactly what you do, twist facts to meet your expectations. He never mentioned the QE1 and 2 followed by spectacular earnings. Just like you he NOW says, with saliva drooling from his mouth, that the time is HERE. Yes it is obvious that this time around the QE xxx will not work. Clearly this recent move down proves it. Just like every single drop for the past 4 years. Hey, eventually your timing will be in sync.

      Yes rigged. Like lowering fed funds rates, like politicians awarded their pork project, like bailing out the autos, like bailing out banks in the 90’s, and now in 2008. Like TLCapital in 2000, like …

      It goes on and on. Hint: Governments will take any and all action they deem necessary to stabilize the economy. Its the nature of the beast. Has been for eternity. You must accept this as fact and invest with this knowledge, not rail against it and hope they fail.

    • redwilldanaher July 10, 2012, 10:23 pm

      “It goes on and on. Hint: Governments will take any and all action they deem necessary to stabilize the economy. Its the nature of the beast. Has been for eternity. You must accept this as fact and invest with this knowledge, not rail against it and hope they fail.”

      Thanks for filling me in Gary. Where did you get that idea, from my essay that Rick published a few years back?

      I’m glad you exposed yourself with that final line too. I sensed the entire time I’ve read your “contributions” that you were secretly cheering on your captors. You’ve now confirmed it for all to see.

      ADDRESS LIEBOR GARY!!!!!!!!!!

    • redwilldanaher July 11, 2012, 12:28 am
    • redwilldanaher July 11, 2012, 12:32 am
  • gary leibowitz July 10, 2012, 4:48 pm

    We already had a Great Depression yet most people think the next debacle will result in riots, food shortages, and a bunker style mentality.

    Why would it be so different? Is it because of the reinforced Constitutional mandate that now allows anyone to own a gun? Is it the prolific availability of guns? Do you expect a run on banks and loss of money, and FDIC Insurance?

    Are we going to be worse off than Greece? Have they disbanded their government and running lawless?

    I think the imagination has gone way beyond a realistic scenario.

    Case in point, AAPL. If you make a premise as an absolute condition, the result should always follow that premise. Premise with AAPL: Assume the meteoric rise in this environment must mean it is in a bubble. Result: Bursting of bubble. If it didn’t burst it must mean it will soon.

    Why is there no adaptation to a premise that has already failed. Why is it so rigid. Clearly the last 4 years have proven otherwise. I can understand people extrapolating where we are heeaded based on the past. I can even understand a dire outcome. I can’t understand why people will ignore the last 4 years as if a grand conspiracy has brainwashed the masses and it is only a select few that are immune.

    So I guess we wait till the final outcome reaches that economic and emotional abyss to satisfy your premise. In the meantime it must be frustrating to keep making excuses as to why the world doesn’t quite “get it”.

    Here is my final premise: We will all die. Solution: Give up already, there is no point to existance. Surely my premise is correct, and therefore my solution.

  • Richard Graham July 10, 2012, 3:14 pm

    Rick, I think you are on the right track when you write about the enormous derivative bubble beginning to burst and probably overwhelming central banks ability to create more credit. No one seems to focus seriously on the deflation risk except for the great economists Van Hoisington,Lacy Hunt, David Rosenberg, and Gary Shilling. It would be helpful if you could shed more light on this “Black Hole” theory. Regards, Richard

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 4:13 pm

      Check out also Austrian Business Credit Cycle, Irving Fisher, Steve Keen, Hyman Minsky, Vern Myers, James Tobin:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_deflation

      Also, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel and Leviticus re Seventh Sabbatical Jubilee…

  • Andrew Gutterman July 10, 2012, 2:07 pm

    Vlad,

    http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_98/vronsky060698.html

    Scroll down to the chart of Homestake Mines. I use this a lot to point out when someone tells me gold stocks don’t do well in depressions.

    Andy

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 4:05 pm

      AG, Dome and Homestake did well during the last great depression because their mining costs fell, while the US G guaranteed the price of gold at $20.67 and $35, an immediate unconstitutional theft of -$14.33 (Masonic #), and defacto dollar devaluation of 69% (35/20.67):

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

      That is not the situation now, where big subprime money checked into bank/broker roach motels, but did not check out.

      As Rick, RP, Vern Myers, Vlad et al documented, fiat money is a changing illusion.

      And now Merrill is telling people to take their money overseas into corporate or foreign bonds…

    • cam fitzgerald July 10, 2012, 10:36 pm

      Corporate bonds may be one of the safest strategies in the end. At least you have a piece of something that might theoretically contain wealth in a relative form and the bond is with a true revenue generator.

  • Andrew Gutterman July 10, 2012, 2:01 pm

    Vlad,

    Yes, I’m aware that the FED is a creation of private banks, and thus is supposed to be looking out for them. It hasn’t always done a very good job. How many private banks got wiped out in the great depression?

    What about Lehman Brothers in the current depression?

    I also know about Prechter. You have to be careful with him, as he tends to predict what doesn’t happen almost as often as he predicts what does happen. I remember how bearish he was on gold as it went from $500 to almost $2000.

    I’ve learned that you cannot depend on any one advisor to be correct all the time. You have to sort of meld them all together. This idea here, that idea there, etc.

    I read a lot of dirverse opinions, from the far left all the way to the far right, and everything in between.

    The one that has had the most impact on me is the Austrian School of Economics. We are playing that out as I write, slowly.

    Andy

  • Mark Uzick July 10, 2012, 8:07 am

    VLAD: but this is my favorite comment you write, and to RA:

    ““Your money is 100% safe.”
    (in current u.s.a. bank deposits).

    great comment.

    Rick wanted to know what tellers would say to desperate depositors during a bank run. Those are the fictional teller’s words – not mine. How can I say that worthless fiat money is safe? That seems to be your belief – not mine.

  • gary leibowitz July 9, 2012, 11:36 pm

    Consumer credit surged by 17 billion last month, and we had 9 billion right before that. Not a good sign for consumer debt, but certainly a good sign for taking up the slack for low wage and employment growth. It also indicates that the pre-housing-debacle period is back. Banks are lending!

    A clear indication that people and institutions are starting to roll back the bad years. Here we go again, more consumer debt. I suspect the mortgage front is not where the problem will lie in the future. Those strict home mortgage rules haven’t changed.

    • VLAD July 10, 2012, 4:35 am

      blah blah blah, blah blah.
      you are so full of crap, gary, a bigger crap barrel is required for you, alone.
      it’s amazing to me, you keep coming back here, a deflationary site, to write your crap.
      unless you are paid to do it, of course. but if not, do find a bull site, kid, to write your crap in.
      got to tell you what I see, when I read your no-matter-what bull comments. feel sorry for you, kid.

    • gary leibowitz July 10, 2012, 4:17 pm

      VLAD,
      The Blah.. blah data points are what drives the markets. You can blah all you want but facts are facts. Consumer borrowing is SURGING once again. Looks like the banks have opened up their credit.

      Your insistance that we are already in a black hole is counter to reality. Gee, looks like the market, which contains trillions of dollars of money from all over the world disagrees with YOU.

      I know, the data is a trick to fool us into complacency.
      I find it amusing that I am being attacked for agreeing with reality while you keep insisting the markets have been wrong for 3 years and will wake up to that fact immediately.

    • mario cavolo July 10, 2012, 5:17 pm

      China….
      BMW sales up 31% 1st six months 2012
      Ford up 18% 2nd quarter
      Kia building new factory – 200,000 cars per year, that’s just Kia…and all the related growing business that goes with new car owners…
      RCCL cruise line China/Asia market – 100% growth, cabins booked out months in advance, bringing in 2nd megaship…
      Starbucks quadrupling # of China outlets
      Telecom/mobile/tablets industry…continues exploding…300,000,000 million more Chinese will buy tablets/smart phones and all that is related to them in the next few years

      Of Note: 50% of S&P500 earnings are international/Asia

      ….no magic, no answers, just points to ponder across the global economy…

      Cheers, Mario

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 5:42 pm

      Re “consumer credit surged”:

      http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/REVOLNS

  • Rusty July 9, 2012, 11:20 pm

    Please provide chart to prove gold ” totally collapsed like everything else” in the depression.

    http://www.chartsrus.com/chart.php?image=http://www.sharelynx.com/chartsfixed/GC1900.gif my chart says gold most certainly did not crash.

    • VLAD July 9, 2012, 11:55 pm

      rusty, I’ll try to find that historical ewi goldprice chart, that I have seen several times over the years, but didn’t save.

      and something else, another pertinent historical chart I saw prechter also trot out once again, about 1 year ago (around when when silver took it’s deep nosedive, off it’s $49USD manic top).

      because according to prechter, very longterm historically, silver has proven to be an even more reliable directional indicator, than that metal with a phd in economy, copper, about soon forthcoming deflationary (or inflationary) extreme conditions.

      and silver is right now at around 27 bucks, and already recently broke it’s prior 2011-2012 low, so that’s not good news, for hyper-inflationary theorists).

    • VLAD July 10, 2012, 12:12 am

      rusty, 3 things, after looking at your provided chart.

      1. gold value did crash in 1933, about 60% approx, when fdr confiscated it all overnight from u.s.a. citizens, at 20.67 USD an ounce; and then, once he had it all, he arbitrarily revalued it worldwide, to $35 an ounce, so he devalued the gold-back dollar, in one swoop, 60% approx.

      2. but gold continued to be pegged to the dollar back then, 100%. so that 60% was all it fell, until nixon closed gold window in 1971, and ford made possible for gold to be bought once again by u.s.a. citizens, in 1974.

      3. I meant gold-mining stocks, not gold itself, when I wrote earlier of prechter’s longterm gold charts, during deflationary depression periods. prechter has kept track of gold-mining stocks, vs. regular stocks, and he says, gold-mining stocks, also fall (or rise) in similar synch, with regular stocks. simple deduction from this is this: gold price is tied to equities market, and they (more or less) almost always go up and down together.

      but if you want to look at silver chart, longterm, as I suggested above, silver was not confiscated in 1930’s, so it operated in the free market, and you’ll see then, that silver ounce price dropped like a rock, back in the depression, and preceeded all large deflationary time periods, by approx. 1/2 year ahead. and same for inflationary periods, just look how silver led inflation up, in the early 80’s.

    • Rusty July 10, 2012, 12:18 am

      VLAD-

      Thank you I need to study it, as I am trying to figure this thing out like everybody else. I’m just talking about gold, I agree silver will go to hell in a depression.

      I searched the net for an old article by Melody Cedarstrom titled “What Can’t Be Paid Won’t Be Paid.” She speaks to Prechters studies much better than I can. I can’t find it.

      In the mean time you might like this link in which gold didn’t crash in 1932 because the Government set the value (double eagles, eagles already in circulation) http://goldsilverprice.net/2011/04/21/gold-and-silver-in-a-depression/

      I have tried to hedge both ways in my small way, most notably hundreds of pounds of nickles. I got that idea from Warren Pollack. Personally I think gold might hit $100, but it will be last man standing.

    • VLAD July 10, 2012, 3:19 am

      rusty, your collection of hundreds of pounds of nickels is interesting; but, well, unless they are visibly dated in ww2 years, they are possibly, not that great to own.

      I saw this now online now, and I cannot confirm, but read it, and research:

      “The dimes, quarters and half-dollars made before 1965 have 90% silver in them. The only nickles with silver were made 1942-1945 and are designated with a large P, D, or S above the capital dome on the back and are 35% silver. The half-dollars made from 1965 to 1970 have 40% silver content. All other nickles are made from nickle.”

      I hav no idea what the metal nickle is worth, today, in the open market. but, I bet, that, if a true deflationary depression does occur, as I expect, barter value will be whatever barter value, and u.s.a. sentimentality, back to a time past, where things were more “american normal”, will have value to some older u.s.a. people; thus, they may yearn to hold your old nickels, in exchange for their farm carrots, beets, vegetables, maybe potatoes. but don’t expect fresh cow or pig meat for them, IMO, sentimental value only get you so far. lol.

      ps: I dont think gold will ever again hit 100usd, even in the worst depression, but, 300usd gold ounce, at the worst low, would not surprise me. but then again, it’s got to be truly proved carat gold, and not fool’s gold, as many tricksters will try to pander, at barter level daily, IMO. lol.

    • VLAD July 10, 2012, 4:11 am

      rusty, I looked quickly over your goldsilverprice.net link.
      they sound like glib gold/silver salesmen to me. they take a few facts, and turn them into whatever, what they sell, IMO.

      “…the government pegged the price of Gold for that (1930’s) time period. The price was a governmental decree – not a market representation of value. This obviously taints the true nature of physical Gold and Silver performance.”

      IMO, this statement is above is utter bullshhttt. market value? there was no market value. 1 ounce of gold was fixed to the dollar paper-note, at 20.67usd, and redeemable at any bank, at any time, by law, and for u.s.a. decades. and then, in ’33, due to huge national depression, the govt took all its citizens gold, by force of jail-law, “in order to save the depressed nation”. and once they had it, they converted it all, to payable 35usd, overnight. and all they skrewed, were all non-citizens worldwide, that held usa dollar redeemable gold notes, and to the tune of 60% instant depreciation, imagine it. that’s how u.s.a. govt skrewed the rest of the world then, and as they always do, and that is why they are so hated, behind their back mostly, and worldwide. because most of the world hates the u.s.a., or don’t you know that? but beig a u.s.a. person, you probably were raised to feel, that the world ends, at u.s.a. borders. well, it aint so. and many worldwide are waiting, for a big u.s.a. payback, for all u.s.a. scamming cheating bullshhttt, for last 100 years.

      and as to your linked website’s commentary, on 400% appreciation over depressionary years, on 2 mining companies, it’s simple: the u.s.a. dollar still wealthy people, that were robbed of their gold eagle coins in ’33 by their govt, felt,that hey, if they can do it once, they can do it twice, thrice, whatever, and since we not allowed to own real gold coins, then, let’s buy solely homeland gold-mining stock shares (like “homestake mining”, and I cant recall what the other u.s.a. one was, maybe hecla), and in order to balance our wealthy portfolio, in case of more arbitrary govt gold price dilutions, do occur, to our gold-backed paper notes.

    • Cam Fitzgerald July 10, 2012, 6:54 am

      Just for the record Vlad, I love the US and I am not an American. Lots of us up here in the cold white North adore your country even with all its warts and blemishes. There is just no other place like it. I used to holiday down Seattle way and the Oregon coast. Have not been there in years but I have plenty of fond memories.

  • Sam July 9, 2012, 9:39 pm

    Again VLAD, I appreciate your viewpoints. Also interesting to note Prechters work on the gold-deflation myth. I have to admit, certain historical data is very hard to come by when searching for it. The long running data on gold from 1920 for example. I tried figuring out how you could deduce the actions of gold and the dollar through the great depression. The dollar was tied to the gold price so some understanding beyond my level of expertise is required to apply those factors to conditions today. Some people are going to come out in good shape and some guys are going to get taken to the cleaners on this one. I’m probably gonna need a drink, It’s going to be ugly. Let’s see how it plays out.

    Peace & long Impaling!

  • bc July 9, 2012, 9:02 pm

    The big trick to being a central banker these days is how to destroy both your balance sheet and investor trust while claiming you aren’t. The ECB is lowering collateral standards for assets purchased, while simultaneously taking retroactive senior positions over private investors in those same assets. This is a classic example of having your cake and eating it too. Both will blow up on them, proving once again CB’s have less power over both asset prices and markets than they think in the long run. Short term they can both wreck their balance sheets, and drive investors from markets, but they pay a terrible price eventually. I think right now is eventually. Gary thinks soon is eventually.

  • ter July 9, 2012, 8:54 pm

    Another thoughtful essay; a pleasure to read.

  • C.C. July 9, 2012, 8:13 pm

    @gary: What are the specific sectors of the economy that are/will lead the charge? Technology is doing well in my area – and I’m sure other areas of the country as well. I’m a bit insulated however, so outside of the wireless/bandwidth/storage/phone-PDA hardware/social-networking and attendant trickle-down micro-economies of the aforementioned industries, what in your view, is excelling in our economy that underpins long term growth or a fundamental bullish trend?

    • Rick Ackerman July 9, 2012, 8:38 pm

      A recent WSJ article listed nanotechnology, fracking, cloud crowding, online healthcare, distance learning and a couple of others. We can only pray that Government doesn’t outgrow them all if Obama gets a second term.

    • gary leibowitz July 9, 2012, 8:48 pm

      Not going against most leading indicators, which means tech first followed by consumer staples. I need to see the tech sector lead the parade.

      I look at many articles and some of them seem to go against the government data points. For instance I read how the auto industry is witnessing a big drop in sales by some anecdotal evidence from some dealers, while the latest government data showed big gains across the board. I also know that the newsletter was from a permabear that has tunnel vision when it comes to the economy.

      I usually play the Q’s or SPX unless I have a good hunch on a specific stock. While AAPL was the darling for shorting recently, given it meteoric rise, the valuations and future expectations was moderate. This looks like it could break out from her but I don’t have the guts to participate.

      As for timing this thing, who knows. I don’t expect a big rally till middle of this month, the 17th, at the earliest.

    • gary leibowitz July 9, 2012, 8:57 pm

      Rick,
      Not sure about nanotechnology since its promise still seems to lie ahead of us. Healthcare seems to always do well, and if we do rally that should do even better.

      As for Obama, if I was you I wouldn’t expect a change in office. Odds are he stays, barring any major event before then. His proposed tax relief, keeping the Bush tax cut, for the middle class will go over big. If he starts explaining the Obamacare, or is that Romneycare program, to the middle class that fear loss of jobs, he will only gain votes.

  • gary leibowitz July 9, 2012, 5:26 pm

    My obsessive notion since the start of the mortgage debacle was that we would fall into the abyss immediately. How or why I broke out of my fixation I can’t really pinpoint. Perhaps it was the reading of Warren Buffett’s biography. In any event I have placed my emotional bias aside when making investment decisions. That is not to say I don’t still have the overwhelming negative emotional baggage. It just means I disregard it when making financial decisions. Not an easy thing to do.

    I mention all this becuase I believe there is a really good investment and trading opportunity right around the corner. I would focus on the upside potential of all asset classes exclusively for the next 6 to 9 months. That should allow you to take advantage of any bullish trend.
    I come to this conclusion based on a few known facts. The current earnings season has an expectation of a slight earnings decline, not seen since 2009. The same securities analysts that warned of the decline in first quarter earnings are now extremely bullish. Going back to the 1950’s the current stock market valuation is 16 percent below the average. That’s a huge potential for major upside moves.

    Just one man’s opinion on taking advantage of market abnormalities. The current earnings season begins. If the market holds above 1310 on the SP500 within the next 10 trading days I would view that as extremely bullish.

    • redwilldanaher July 9, 2012, 6:53 pm

      Why not just say that you expect the current group of puppets to mark things up into the Election and then hold it for the year for one final round of OPM infused bonuses?

    • gary leibowitz July 9, 2012, 7:10 pm

      I try not to extrapolate the reasons behind the situation. Not political anyway since it is a losing proposition. I keep it simple, being a simple minded individual, and that means disregard the noise and concentrate on trends.

    • redwilldanaher July 9, 2012, 7:30 pm

      Quarter’s End after Quarter’s End and at the EOY there are nearly always mark up attempts. Window dressing. It’s hardly noise, it’s actually manipulation. Many manipulate together, hence conspiracy.

      Why is the FED not investigating primary dealers? Where is FINRA, the SEC, etc.? You won’t see or hear about them because we never do until well after the fact when the poster boy has been fingered.

      This is what a lawless dystopia looks like: capricious application of law and standards. Anyone that’s ever even perused History’s Cliff’s Notes should know how it all ends…

    • VLAD July 9, 2012, 11:40 pm

      gary, you quote a “yahoo finance” article from this morning, nearly verbatim, yet you give them no credit:

      gary says:
      “I come to this conclusion based on a few known facts. The current earnings season has an expectation of a slight earnings decline, not seen since 2009. The same securities analysts that warned of the decline in first quarter earnings are now extremely bullish. Going back to the 1950’s the current stock market valuation is 16 percent below the average. That’s a huge potential for major upside moves.”

      what’s humorous, though, is that I came to a totally opposite diametric conclusion from you, after reading this same article; because, historically, great bullishness from large quantity of “expert analysts”, has been repeatedly statistically proven, that it is the prelude to a major top, in the u.s.a. equities markets. and so, goood luuck, as to you betting on their “cumulative pack wisdom”… lol. so buy buy, bull gary.

    • redwilldanaher July 10, 2012, 1:07 am
  • fallingman July 9, 2012, 4:49 pm

    “Think it through yourself: Does it seem at all illogical that on the morning after a worldwide crash, our credit cards having ceased to work in a banking system suddenly bereft of trust, the economy would be running on a cash/bullion-or-barter basis? ”

    No.

    • Mark Uzick July 9, 2012, 6:11 pm

      The banks would be seized and the liquidity of customers’ accounts guaranteed by state fiat.

      I think that Rick is an irrepressible optimist. If only there will be a deflationary outcome, there could still be hope for a return to prosperity after the liquidation of bad investments. That hope died when Ron Paul declared that he could not win. (Let’s hope he’s wrong.)

      I don’t see the will in our “leaders” or in most of our society to allow a cleansing deflation to run its course. The price we’ll pay for high inflation will be far more costly.

      &&&&&&

      Mark, you should try re-reading my commentaries closely before you respond, since you seem to miss or ignore the point of nearly everything I say. Putting that problem aside, our philosophical differences are summed up by your assertion that the coming financial catastrophe will play out according to some set of rules determined by what “society” will “allow”. And you think I’M the optimist.
      RA

    • Mark Uzick July 9, 2012, 9:42 pm

      Rick, your argument appears to me to hinge upon the very thing that I addressed in my preceding comment – that money will become inaccessible during a banking collapse. If you have some other point crucial to your premise, it must be very subtle, for I rechecked and I still don’t see it.

      The banking infrastructure; the banks’ employees will still be there when the banks are seized; and there will be as much liquidity as needed to keep things working as money can be brought into existence by the fiat of the state. There would be some awful, but temporary bottlenecks, and some annoying, but longer lasting or even permanent inconvenience, but the barter economy will have to wait until inflation gets too out of hand.

      If a sufficient portion of society was inclined to allow deflation to run its course, then yes – there will be a needed deflation, but too few in society seem so inclined.

      Once inflation does its part in causing economic and financial ruin, the question still remains whether we will permit a new fiat money system to replace the old one, thereby sowing the seeds of a future of exploitative financial manipulation and collapse, or if we’ll allow a free market of competitive forms of money; if not that, then at the very least, money printed by the treasury that’s backed by something real.

      &&&&&

      You obviously haven’t thought ANY of this through, Mark. For starters, the branches only keep enough currency on hand to cash out one or two depositors among those who will be rioting outside their doors. Will banks all over the country get Brinks shipments of paper money the Day After? The Week After? The Month After?

      Do you actually believe the credit card system will function when the clearing chain and the entire universe of virtual collateral are in smoking ruins? What will YOUR credit limit be now that you and everyone else are out of work?

      And what will the bank “infrastructure” you speak of be worth? How does a bank differ from an empty warehouse if its computers are unable to dispense “money” of some sort. And what, pray tell, will the tellers be doing to assuage the endless lines of angry, confused customers?

      And for the love of Mike, please tell me again how much “choice” people will have about how deflation plays out when a quadrillion-dollar Ponzi game implodes in the space of perhaps two or three days, if not in three hours? Etcetera.

      10-4, over and out…

      RA

    • VLAD July 10, 2012, 1:02 am

      mark, I am fascinated by lies; specially longterm, well-planned, lies. (and also I disagree with “honest” abe; for I think you can fool all of the people all of the time: yet, he was a politician, so as my proof, he has fooled for 150 years, all those that still believe to this day, that his most famous, yet full-of-baloney self-serving “honesty”, is true).

      so, in that disbelief vein of banking “trust” you have still, I will add a few additional points, to what RA already told you above, re the soon forthcoming “day the world(banks) stood still”.

      one.
      99% of u.s.a. people d not know, that FIDC is designed solely for yearly small isolated bank default situations, since it is only an emergency bank fund, and not a catch-all one, as they want you all to believe; and does not, at all, have even remotely, the charter capability, to deal with a massive bank default u.s.a.-wide event. because, as far as I have read, by charter, FIDC cannot get from treasury, more than approx. 50 billion a year, to deal with bank closures. and 50 billion is a drop, of u.s.a. depositors money, which is in the many trillions. so, forget FDIC, it’s just a joke, on you all. and as far as I know, there is no other u.s.a. agency, that can, by current law, dispense money to depositors, to replace what they lost, in their own bank’s closure. but hell, maybe the FED make a new law that day. (btw, I read the guy that was appointed to replace bair, has a long voting history of being a tough guy on fiscally-imprudent banksters, so he sounds all set to allow, even the “too-big-to-fail”, do fail. (and I am thinking primarily citigroup and bofa. so imagine bankruns on those 2, nationwide, and with near-zero govt. help).

      two.
      it is in every private u.s.a. bank’s tiny print (as permitted and encouraged by law, maybe 20 years old law at least), the tiny print in the doc they make you sign, when you are depositing, that long tiny print 99% never read (since all u-s-a- people feel so protected, by FDIC, and having “money in the bank” ingrained indoctrinated philosophy, since birth), I saw 2 very important things:

      2a.
      the bank can totally close legally, for an entire week, 7 days (“bank holiday”), and on their own sole volition, if they consider the bank to be in danger, of lack of enough liquidity, to function properly. and by totally close I mean no open doors, no atms, no credit or debit cards, no transfers, etc.
      c l o s e d. for 7 days. at any time.

      2b.
      also in this long tiny print, is the fact they tell you (paraphrasing), is that the money you deposit, is no longer yours (basically), but an investment in their bank; and as such, you share in their profits and-or liabilities; and also (unsaid, obviously), and also their defaults. so, they make it clear to you, right from the start, that you may not be getting back, 100 cents on your deposited dollar, in the case that they experience some “unknown” future financial “trouble.”

      if anyone here disagrees on the 3 important u.s.a. bank-depositor points above I wrote, I want to read them.

    • Mark Uzick July 10, 2012, 1:35 am

      Rick: For starters, the branches only keep enough currency on hand to cash out one or two depositors among those who will be rioting outside their doors. Will banks all over the country get Brinks shipments of paper money the Day After? The Week After? The Month After?

      Checks and debit cards will still work; if they need cash immediately, they’ll have to take cashier’s checks. They will be reassured that their deposits are safe; (even though the fiat they’re so concerned about has no real value) and if they still wish to withdraw their money in the form of bank notes that they just have to be patient. Once they see that their accounts still function, the demand for bank notes will dwindle.

      Do you actually believe the credit card system will function when the clearing chain and the entire universe of virtual collateral are in smoking ruins? What will YOUR credit limit be now that you and everyone else are out of work?

      Credit card limits may have to be curtailed if there was sudden mass job losses until credit profiles were updated, but that would only happen if a financial crash was first caused by massive business failures – a much more serious problem than even worldwide bank failures.

      And what will the bank “infrastructure” you speak of be worth? How does a bank differ from an empty warehouse if its computers are unable to dispense “money” of some sort.

      Liquidity will be created by the same fiat that’s used to create “money” to “paper over deficits” now. Book keeping entries will be made to these computers and they will function as ever. Within nation states, banks won’t have to trust each others’ ability to pay, for there will only be one big state owned bank.

      And what, pray tell, will the tellers be doing to assuage the endless lines of angry, confused customers?

      “Your money is 100% safe. Because of an over-reaction to the financial emergency, it will be some time before we receive enough banknotes to meet demand. Your checks and debit card will still clear; and if you need cash for a large retail purchase, like a car, home repair or medical procedure, I can issue you a cashier’s check against your account.”

      And for the love of Mike, please tell me again how much “choice” people will have about how deflation plays out when a quadrillion-dollar Ponzi game implodes in the space of perhaps two or three days, if not in three hours? Etcetera.

      A society must make that call before such an event occurs. I think that it’s clear that most people would rather paper over deflation with inflation by guaranteeing their deposits. Deflation, as terrible as it is, is a preferable future to a high inflation one, but I find your fears (which ought to be hopes) to be improbable.
      Who can foretell the future? For all I know, right in the middle of a banking implosion Yellowstone explodes and no one will care about anything so trivial as most of us will be dead; but barring the unexpected, something like what I just outlined is probable; and that it hardly took any effort to think of these answers only shows that even the state could probably handle this crisis without too much of the idiotic bungling that it’s prone to committing.

    • Mark Uzick July 10, 2012, 1:57 am

      VLAD: All of your arguments are based on the premise that the state plays by some fixed set of rules. My answer to you is that you don’t understand what the state is or how it operates: a national emergency will be declared and the FDIC; bank holidays; and personal responsibility for where you deposit your money all go out the window.

    • VLAD July 10, 2012, 2:47 am

      mark, I find hardhead stubborn people, interesting.
      so I find you and gary, interesting,
      and most of all, since you don’t belong here,
      on this RA site, where he has repeatedly stated,
      that he has a decades-long, major deflationary ultimate stance. so what do you waste your time here? go to a bull site, I think.

      for this is what I see: you and gary, maybe paid partners,
      decided to disrupt this site, with your strident bullish positions. ok. so write on.

      but this is my favorite comment you write, and to RA:

      ““Your money is 100% safe.”
      (in current u.s.a. bank deposits).

      great comment.

      IMO, just solely based on that 1 comment, you are even totally crazier, than gary; or, just maybe a crazier liar than him, IMO. for the stuff you’ve written here today, mark, gets ever crazier, and by the minute.

      but hey, do keep your money in bank deposits in a u.s.a. bank, for I am sure you will enjoy your 100% skrewed “safe” (bank-closed) ride, all the way to nothing. nothing. so do it. believe in u.s.a. banks. do it.

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 3:45 pm

      Perceptive bank observations Vlad, which most people ignore at their own peril…

  • Tech-trac July 9, 2012, 3:38 pm

    Why is it that a “Guns & Butter”economy unleashed double digit inflation in the 1960-1980 period while in the 2000-2012 clone has unleashed deflation or disinflation?
    Why not consult the famous Russian exiled for his 60-80- yr Cycle Theory for a possible explanation?
    Winter will eventually end , I’m sure.
    Could Ben be our groundhog?

    • Andrew Gutterman July 9, 2012, 3:59 pm

      Because the economy in the 1960-1980 period was all about 80 million baby boomers entering the economy, raising costs and lowering productivity which translated into roaring inflation.

      http://hsdent.com/uploads/wpcontent/2008/01/inflation-indicator.jpg

      We no longer have THAT problem. Its the opposite effect today. We are all trying to get to retirement, which means selling off assets to pay for it, or continuing to work if we lost our assets a few years ago.

      Translation: Deflation

    • Tech-trac July 9, 2012, 5:17 pm

      and that’s it?
      the whole theory collapse on the demographics of 80 million Americans & not on what you would expect after a prolonged plunge into debt by consumers & governments in every country & the sudden imposed restraint in spending based on balance sheet considerations ?

      Considerations not unexpected in cyclical economic theory.

      after all ‘boom-bust” has been around for a long time(population demographics not withstanding).\

      We’re in WINTER!

    • Andrew Gutterman July 9, 2012, 6:56 pm

      Economics is all about people and money. Most economists leave people out of it since its very hard to mathematically quantify what people are doing or plan to do.

      So we have all these wonderful theories about what should or will happen based on how much money we think is floating around in the system.

      The baby boom phenomenon was an unexpected event in the history of the ups and downs of the economy. Yes, I have a copy of the fourth turning. It still does not completely take into account the differences between then and now.

      If you look at a chart of long term interest rates in the US over the last 200 years the spike in the 70’s really stands out. So what was different in the 70’s vs the rest of our history?

      Andy

  • John Jay July 9, 2012, 3:22 pm

    I think the Fed has an option unavailable to all other Fiat creating central banks in the history of finance. That is a Digital Currency. We are well on our way to that now.
    Food Stamps are now a debit card. SS, direct deposits.
    Many banks now have no real branches, just a web site.
    As I have said before, all that is stopping them is the lucrative illegal drug trade that supplies the banks and black ops government agencies with liquidity. I do not know how it will all play out, but it will give the government total control of the economy. If you get out of line, wham, they can seize your wealth at a key stroke, with no due process. And you become a non-person. As for my own perception of prices, I see deflation only in the price of electronic goods which is technology driven and has little to do with money printing/creation. My orange juice carton is now 59 oz, down from 64 oz., and priced the same. The 6 pack of candy that was formerly an 8 pack just went from $1 to $1.50 overnight.
    So I am paying 50% more for 25% less candy.
    Gasoline is falling off it’s highs which I think is strictly an election ploy, it is still up from $1 a gallon a decade ago. My electric bill is creeping upwards. Auto prices have not seen any deflation, 20k to 35k for a Mini Cooper? My rent is stable, went up $25 a month this time. House prices in the bubble areas have pulled back off a true hyper inflation (%20 a year) spike which was due only to massive fraud that went unpunished and uncorrected. Armageddon is looming in the MENA, KSA just dispersed a big protest there with live ammo. It is a mad house and who knows what will happen on any given day in a psychiatric ward? Digital currency is the trump card the Fed has up it’s sleeve, in conjunction with the Patriot Act.

    • Rusty July 9, 2012, 6:51 pm

      Speaking of digital currency, the city in which I live requires all city employees to be paid with a digital credit. What is really peachy is they use one bank and the employee is required to use their bank. No choice. Cool huh?

  • Andrew Gutterman July 9, 2012, 2:21 pm

    I find discussions like this to be most interesting. People fall into two camps:

    1. The FED has control and is going to drive us into hyperinflation.

    2. The FED doesn’t have control and its actions eventually will exacerbate the deflation that is coming.

    I’m in camp 2. The FED has a 100 year history of failure. It reacts to events, it doesn’t create them. And its almost always on the wrong side of history. Right now it thinks its fighting deflation, but what it is doing almost guarantees that when the deflation arrives it will arrive with a vengeance.

    We may eventually get hyperinflation, but long before that we will get deflation that will reduce the value of most assets to a third or less of what they are today. This includes precious metals as well. In the end they are just another commodity, as past history has shown.

    Everything trades against everything else. If you need dollars to pay debts then you sell everything else to raise those dollars.

    Falling prices, in the end.

    Andy

  • Mark Uzick July 9, 2012, 9:10 am

    The PMI index for the US has fallen below 50, indicating the beginning of an economic contraction. When the Fed meets on July 31st, it likely that QE-3 will be announced. Forecasts from 16 primary dealers withe Fed showed a 70% likelihood that this will happen:

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/06/usa-fed-poll-idINDEE8650FH20120706

    • Cam Fitzgerald July 10, 2012, 6:30 am

      I don’t think so, Mark. There is a faulty assumption in my opinion that more stimulus is on its way. Everyone seems to keep forgetting that the QE’s were essentially emergency intervention. The thing is we do not have an emergency right now. There is no crisis either. What we do have is an economy that has been very slow to adapt and show genuine signs of recovery against of backdrop of mind-numbing debt. Monetary intervention can not adequately address what is currently taking place though and I believe the Fed knows this to be the case but is unwilling to acknowledge that yet. The mere prospect of an oncoming recession is not “stimulus worthy” on its own merits. Why would it be? There is some hope on the fiscal side however but as debt burdens mount this is playing with fire unless the execution is careful. Market participants meanwhile who have been bidding up the market very aggressively are in for a surprise when no announcement comes. Look at the prices for wheat and corn as an example. These are clearly anticipating a Fed boost but I think we will see heartbreak instead. Not only that, gold and silver could both take another nasty tumble from the current trading range. None of this bodes well for miners until a clear direction is chosen and so my own inclination is to wait for a better entry position down the road. A sweet spot is coming but it is just not quite here yet. And while some analysts insist precious metals are on the verge of a huge breakout I would be remiss to say that these patterns can sometimes go sharply against expectations. Nothing is guaranteed but worry between now and then.

  • Mark Uzick July 9, 2012, 8:55 am

    Rick, as low or negative interest rates are the result of massive money printing, I think you’ve got it backwards.

    Also: The effect of negative rates on bank’s reserves will force them to make the choice of either a slow withering death or to ease up on lending standards and the risks to their liquidity that would entail.

    The second is the logical choice, not only because the first choice ensures banks’ failures, but that in an environment of massive inflation the assets against which they make these loans will be worth much more than the amount of the loans in nominal terms, even if their real value is falling.

    It’s simple really: Both the illiquid nation states’ and the illiquid banks’ interests are aligned with an inflationary future.

    • Rick Ackerman July 9, 2012, 9:28 am

      Mark, you seem to be waiting to pounce on my commentary as soon as it is published each night. Don’t you have any other hobbies?

      Concerning your arguments today, I believe I’ve already addressed them. Readers can decide for themselves whether “easing lending standards” is likely to inflate much of anything at this point (and that’s assuming businesses and households could even find a reason, good or bad, to go deeper in debt).

      As far as the supposed alignment of all things with inflation, the point of my essay was to focus on what is, not on what inflationists have been saying for many years ought to be.

    • Mark Uzick July 9, 2012, 10:09 am

      Rick, when I check on your touts for the day, it’s not as a hobby that I do it. I can’t help but see your daily commentary too. I’m sorry that I don’t always agree with you.

      As for your other remarks, we’ll see what banks do when and if interest rates turn negative. Which of the two choices do you think they’ll make?

      As far as banks finding it difficult to find borrowers, with state spending and QE run amok, who wouldn’t borrow money to buy homes if they knew that they could pay it back with money worth pennies on the dollar? Even banks, if they couldn’t make enough loans to pay for the negative interest on their reserves, might take the unused balance to buy up nominally appreciating assets.

      All things do NOT align with inflation: only the interests of the illiquid banking system and those who would grow the state to the point of swallowing most of the economy.

      If it came down to it, and the banks couldn’t avoid getting sucked down the negative interest rate toilet, they would be seized and nationalized if necessary. Regardless of what path the future takes, fiat “money” will fulfill its ultimate purpose of wealth confiscation and its destiny as having a buying power that catches up to what its intrinsic value has always been.

    • Andrew Gutterman July 9, 2012, 3:12 pm

      “Rick, as low or negative interest rates are the result of massive money printing, I think you’ve got it backwards.”

      No, you do. Study history. We have the lowest interest rates in recorded history for the US. Low interest rates always happen when the economy is doing poorly. Interest rates are set by the market, NOT the FED. And the market right now thinks economic activity is going to come to a standstill, if not downright decline. Hence the low interest rates.

      You fall into the FED camp # 1. You think the FED controls this.

      They don’t. People do, and people right now want nothing to do with borrow-and-spend. Everyone I know is trying to deleverage as fast as possible. Only those consumers whose incomes have not kept up with spending are borrowing, and they are borrowing to pay bills, not to buy toys.

      QE1 and QE2 have done zero to promote growth. All the QE’s do is unbalance the FED’s balance sheet, and make the ensuing deflation, when it finally arrives, even stronger than it otherwise would be.

      The FED is ALWAYS wrong.

      Andy

      &&&&&&

      Thanks for the help, Andy. I couldn’t have said it better myself. RA

    • allen July 9, 2012, 3:27 pm

      So banks are going back to what got them into trouble in the 1st place(loaning money to anyone with a pulse)?Wouldn’t bet on that.

    • Mark Uzick July 9, 2012, 5:29 pm

      Andrew Gutterman: Study history. We have the lowest interest rates in recorded history for the US. Low interest rates always happen when the economy is doing poorly.

      So you must think that either the economy was doing well in 1980 or that the interest rates were low.

      Correlation is not proof of causation. We are in new circumstances (Currency that’s without backing; with no value; and with no limit on its creation.) that makes comparisons before the early 70’s irrelevant.

      QE1 and QE2 have done zero to promote growth.

      The idea that inflation promotes growth is a Keynesian fallacy. QE only promotes the growth of the state at the expense of the productive sector.

      Price deflation is in effect, but only in terms of real money, as can be seen in the fact that gold has nearly 3 times its normal purchasing power.

      allen: So banks are going back to what got them into trouble in the 1st place (loaning money to anyone with a pulse)?Wouldn’t bet on that.

      Under the right circumstances (negative interest rates) banks will do whatever it takes to survive. Doing nothing by allowing negative interest rates to suck them dry of reserves is not an option they can live with.

  • Cam Fitzgerald July 9, 2012, 8:10 am

    That was a very wise commentary, Rick. I think what we are discovering is that the same forces of economic easing (money printing) that so many market participants demand are also planting the seeds for the inevitable and dangerous rise of interest rates. The end of the bond bull is the beginning of our next crisis. This creates a dilemma. How can we manufacture growth through inflation on the one hand while stifling rate rise pressures on the other. It is very risky. We all know that the debt is already unrepayable even in nominal terms. To magnify the danger through attempts at inflating are self defeating as interest rates will climb in tandem and so less intervention is actually desired at this time. We must deflate or default at this stage and as default is off the table then the outcome is very clear. Deleveraging will proceed (in an orderly way, hopefully) for many, many years until a balance can once again be achieved. I do not believe any more stimulants are coming. It is time to pay the piper and in my view the preferred method is a long road of slow debt dissolution, structural adjustment and repayment of burdens rather than the brutal and quick path of evaporation through inflation. We just can’t keep pulling the same monkey out of the hat every year so the jig is now up.

  • Rich July 9, 2012, 7:40 am

    Debt default deflation indeed as Monetary Base declined since Valentine’s Day.

    Still short on SPY with SPY Jul 136 puts…

    • VLAD July 9, 2012, 10:17 pm

      rich, you have much technical knowledge.
      I see today’s sp500 flatline action, in a tight 1354-1347 range, as necessary to relieve the rsi/macd techwise, before the fall resumes tomorrow; then looking for that leaped-from previous range area, of sp500 1335-1310. so I see under 1340 tomorrow, as high probability (3/4), and will be interesting to see, if 1335 is broken through, and back in the 1335-1310 range, the ever-weaker sp500 goes.

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 5:00 pm
    • Rich July 10, 2012, 5:02 pm

      SPX caught between the Economy and the Fed.
      Velocity at new lows tells the tale:

      http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MZMV?cid=32242

    • Rich July 10, 2012, 5:06 pm

      So many expecting QEIII it may be a nonstarter.
      All the Twist does is shake things up a bit from short to long, with lower TNX, generally leading Mr & Mrs Market:

      http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?s=%24TNX%3A%24SPX