I don’t believe it was an over reaction. In fact the steps taken in “W” will be insufficient to accomplish what must be accomplished.

Well, as long as it doesn’t come off your back you’re unconcerned. Tell me, what do you think about this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20042299-503544.html

And don’t hand me the crap about “this would only be used as a last resort.” Funny how last resorts have a habit of becoming second to last, third to last, and sooner or later right up there as the first resort.

I realize most folks here concentrate on the micro scale and completely lose sight of…well, what we’re about to lose – our democracy. Just how much are the millionaires and billionaires willing to tear down so they don’t have to share the pain? NYC has 50 billionaires. Gov. Cuomo, reputedly a Democrat, has axed the 2+% temporary surtax on those making over $500K per year.

We stand to lose not only democracy but any kind of technical prowess in the future thanks to the cuts in all levels of education. All future technical and scientific discoveries will be made outside US boundaries. But that’s okay to Fox viewers who were convinced a few years ago that there’s no such thing as citizenship. Well, not where money’s concerned.

I wake up every day thanking God I’m not a Republican. Sign me disgusted and appalled.

Out of the mouths of fools, Cam. Utter claptrap. Thirty years of voodoo economics and rampant deregulation, wholesale movement of the means, tools and rewards of manufacture have been moved offshore, all bought and paid for by the uberrich and legislated by their paid-for toadies of both parties. What the middle class in America has witnessed over these last 30 years has been the biggest transfer of wealth out of their pockets and rushed into the pockets and offshore tax-free bank accounts of said uberrich. Ah, but you don’t recognize the “cartel” of the few, the powerful, the monied class, do you. No, that wouldn’t be in your self-interest. Democracy? Only for the monied class. No cartel to see there, move along.

ExxonMobil made the richest profits in the history of humankind in 2009. It paid $0 in US corporate taxation. It also received billions in taxpayer subsidies. Nope, nothing to see here. Move along. Did you mention “cartels”? Nor need I remind you of Rex Tillerson’s predecessor who retired with a package of money, goods and services to the tune of $400 million. I wonder how much I paid the federal government in the form of my own taxes, heretofore inexplicably rising gas prices and subsidies to his “employer” in order to bestow such gifts upon him, thanks to his crony board. Those inexplicably rising gas prices? One day in early January, 2007 a trader with no industrial interest in petro products decided to buy a contract for crude at $100 per barrel, leapfrogging the previous price, then sold same at a loss of about 60 cents per barrel for the sole reason that doing so would provide bragging rights to his descendants that he was the first to buy $100 per barrel oil. Defend the social utility of that if you dare. I’d enjoy a good laugh.

Unlike you, I don’t tune into angry rich white boy radio and the Three Stooges of Fox TV – O’Reilly, Beck the Bizarre or Sean Hannity. I’ve never gone in for slapstick, either comedic or political when those two occasionally diverge, which never happens on right wing media.

I would suggest, Cam, that the next time you have need of nursing care, perhaps in a hospital, that you not mention your support for taking away his or her collective bargaining rights. But do pray for gentleness when it comes time to attend to your elimination needs, particularly if the labor involved in handling bedpans becomes a financial burden to the establishment and they opt, instead, for rectal cathetarization.

Trickle down my fat lawyer’s ass. Gush upwards and outwards and the devil take what made America the beacon – the facility of a ladder to climb based on one’s hard work. That ladder is gone.

Teachers are less valuable? Compared to what – that day trader who wanted bragging rights over 1000 barrels of crude at $100 per? Sorry, baby, but the social utility of that teacher – even a run-of-the-mill teacher – far outweighs that trader. Hands down. For while the trader’s descendants will be lucky if they see a dime of the old man’s lucre, they will only do so behind well locked gates. That teacher, even if he or she reaches only one student per year, will have contributed more to America’s welfare and future that than jackass will likely do in his entire lifetime. But then, Wall Street is just another “cartel”, as you say – and well subsidized, I might add, to my financial and political detriment thanks to the oligarchy’s ram through of TARP without strings attached.

Iowa’s GOP in 2010 had a plank demanding the abolition of the mandatory minimum wage. They also want to end work safety rules. Noises bubble up like lava from the pit of the right wing to do away with child labor laws.

They have said now for over a decade that information is the greatest weapon and the market, when Chicago school economists are at their most misty-eyed, is always based on the equality of information. Chuckle. Ah, insider trading. Ah, deregulation because, according to Alan Greenspan before the scales fell from his eyes, the market always works on self-policing. Snicker. When’s the last time you drove 55 on the Interstate? As for equality of information, how odd that in negotiating one’s pay rate, the ordinary citizen, not represented by a union, is at a distinct disadvantage because the information is, shall we say, unequal. As is the bargaining power. Noooo, that unequal bargaining power isn’t “intended” to be unequal. We’ve just got our bean-counters to satisfy.

Your post displays no recognition that there are two sides to every story. That the corporate media owned by such publishing luminaries as GE, Sam Zell the commercial real estate tycoon, and our Aussie friend Rupert who became a US citizen (such an annoyance, that whole citizenship thing) just to get his talons further into the meat of America and pursue his worldwide ambition of monopoly – yeah, that corporate media wouldn’t want to steer you wrong, would they? I mean…those public employee unions are all overpaid compared to private employee unions…until we’ve wiped out the former part of the middle class and work our divide-and-conquer strategy to find the private employee unions as our next scapegoat. Question is, who’s next? Listening to right wing media, I’m already supposed to hate so many…Muslims (no, Rep. King, there are no right wing terrorists in America who’ve never even met a Muslim so we don’t need to broaden the hearings to address those imaginary lunatics), Jews according to Glenn Beck when he’s not watching his words carefully enough or evangelicals who make nice with Israel because they want to hurry the Second Coming and forget to tell the Jews that they must either convert or be killed – hmm, where’s Torquemada when you need him? Then there are always teh gays, teh feminists, teh liberals (yeah, we’re all commie Nazi fascist dirty hippie freak bastards), the aforementioned MSM, yada, yada, yada. Honestly, I need a scorecard by now.

FYI, I’ve never been a union member, Cam. But as a lawyer I am acutely aware of power imbalances.

Now watch with me how Governor Walker and his lockstep Republican cronies sell off Wisconsin’s public utilities in a no-bid contract to the Koch Brothers who, magically enough, have interests so very congruent with the utilities the governor wants to sell to them. Wonder how much the Koch Brothers are willing to pay the governor and state legislatures under the table…. Did you say “cartel”? Snicker.

&&&&&&

There is so much that is so seriously wrong here, “Carol,” that anyone who would attempt to rebut your rant point-for-point probably has too much time on his hands. I’ll mention only that you couldn’t have imbibed too much Curly, Larry and Moe in your evidently angry childhood if you think Beck, Hannity and O’Reilly are in their weight class. Any one of those guys, even half-drunk, could mop the floor with you in a debate. RA

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That was one hell of a tirade Carol.

The missiles and lead you fired went in every direction all at once and I have to tell you I cannot easily concentrate on that much misdirected angry confusion in just one sitting.

I will simplify my argument for you though with a short discussion of shoe buying habits and some perspective on what I see taking place.

As far as unions are concerned, there are too many entitlements that have been granted over the years that simply cannot ever be paid yet everyone and his dog wants to retain his “fair share” of the rapidly diminishing tax resource pool come hell or highwater….. other people be damned.

But it is not possible to meet the demands anymore.

From a national perspective we have already spent the incomes of the future and therefore our “rights” and entitlements to existing resources is now ending or in steep decline.

A period of sustained contraction has arrived despite the feeble sounds of economic recovery and it is not over by a long shot. We simply cannot have what we cannot afford anymore (unless we just steal it from some other poor sap who isn’t able to stand up for himself). So cut those social service payments! Cut those pensions! Unions need their pay and they bargained fairly for it. To heck with everyone else.

The problem is not just a domestic one either. Incomes are in the process of being levelled and reduced across geographic boundaries throughout the West, between nations and states. In a kind of zero-sum game, our loss is the gain of low wage countries.

This trend has somehow escaped the notice of the union movement where sharing is not really all that popular anyway. I note that unions members readily balk at accepting reduced work hours so that their comrades might remain employed. Unthinkable. It is preferable to cut the numbers of workers than to make a wage concession.

This is in part why I stated that past agreements and contracts achieved through collective bargaining was just so much paper that might be torn up. The whole premise those agreements were based upon has turned out to be wrong.

The pension system itself as one example is a myth and a Ponzi scheme that is unsustainable. So you can forget your pension rights now as they will not exist meaningfully in the future anyway. It is mathematically impossible to pay out those old commitments without making major changes to how benefits are calculated.

And you, as a lawyer Carol should well know that any deal made on a faulty premise or in error is one that can be amended, changed and even refuted later. No contract. No deal.

I do not hate unions Carol but they seem to embody what I see selfishness and ignorance. By merely harping on about all the good services they provide (which many do) they fail to grasp that despite all their best efforts they can never stem the tide of economic arbitrage now taking place across the globe and will therefore be faced with increasing opposition to their demands long into the future.

When you screech about the so-called Uberrich my dear have you not considered that you are one of them? That two billion people in this world live on less than two dollars daily. That is billion with a “B” sweetheart, not million and they are short wealth because you are long. To those people, you are the problem, because they live at a starvation level to meet your fantasy demands for fairness and equity and five weeks of vacation time. Shake your head girl…you are the Uberrich too.

You can now stop blaming the Corporates for this outcome too. That does not resonate with me at all. Perhaps you do not shop at Walmart but I will bet that you, like millions of other consumers across the Western world, bargain hunt for the very best deals. Instead of the 150 dollar shoes made domestically you chose the discount brand that looked just as good but only cost 60 bucks. Or less.

Did you realize that by doing that you were actually sharing the wealth with impoverished people while depriving your own country of a job? See how both a good thing and a bad thing happened together in that sentence. I think you need some perspective.

Before you rant at me again why don’t you ask yourself who is to blame for the fact that there are virtually no shoe manufacturers in Canada or the United States anymore.

Consumer patterns drove that devolution of manufactured goods here at home, not corporations. Business simply responded to the demands for cheaper products and we all got what we wanted. The statistics back me up too. Is Walmart a small retailer today because everyone supported home-grown production? I think not.

Is it those big fat richies who are to be blamed because they moved plant and equipment overseas to low wage environments in order to satisfy the demands of those who wanted cheap goods and plenty of them? Again, no.

Perhaps instead it is the fault of individuals and consumers (and unions) who only pay lip service to “buy America” idealism but are instead driven more by basic human nature to get the best deals at any cost that are responsible for our state of affairs. Getting closer.

Did you make an economic sacrifice in the past year in order to support American workers and their output Carol? Did you delay a holiday, put less fuel in your tank or reduce the budget for dining out as you consciously chose the purchase of a physical product that had a “made in America” tag glued on the bottom?

Probably not. Most didn’t. But don’t feel bad because that just makes you like almost everyone else who has sought out the lowest cost items from the shop shelves as they work to maintain a certain standard of living that they think they are entitled too without any real understanding or regard for how demand inpacts on supply. Nor how the Third World manufacturing and supply interacts with our own consumption demands.

In the case of shoes, there is virtually no domestic manufactured supply anymore. Only that which is on offer from low-wage countries. Why should that surprise you? Those were union jobs too by the way and good ones while they lasted. Instead, twelve year olds in India and Bangladesh make our footwear in factories so polluted and dangerous that many don’t survive their teens.

So there are choices in spending. Let me ask again, did you show loyalty to your country today? If I have not already put a fine enough point on this I just want to reinforce that I think the union movement has failed to grasp the broad impacts of millions upon millions of consumers behaving as outlined above.

The outcome has naturally led to rising consumption of foreign made goods and therefore resulted in jobs losses in all Western economies. The consequence of this behaviour is that we all feel poorer as employment levels drop and quality jobs are shifted overseas. Those people are skilled too you know.

There is now a feedback loop in progress that is amplifying this trend as hard-pressed consumers move even closer to cheap goods suppliers which only drives more jobs out of the country and further reinforces the growth prospects of low wage exporters while depressing our own economy.

See where I am going with this Carol? Do you see how the consumption model of the society we live in is not sustainable over the long term and that one of the results of our spending habits and behaviour is the gutting of tax revenues that used to be provided by incomes generated through domestic investments and exports?

Can you not also see how ridiculous it is for unions to present ever greater demands at a time when national income is falling and tax revenue is in decline?

Perhaps instead of looking for scapegoats to blame you instead try to fathom from the macro level what is actually taking place in our society now. How unions, through their excessive demands, have stupidly priced themselves out of the market and cost everyone in the process.

That trend should also be telling you that the future for unions is really bleak particularly for the public service. That unemployment will stay high for an extended period of time and probably get much worse as the next recession arrives and average incomes are driven down further yet.

It is also saying that there are equally well qualified and hungry people who might willingly take your job who are living right here in America today and they will do it at half price. Never mind worrying about skilled Asians taking your position away. You need to look over your shoulder in your own city and town now. Skill abounds, work does not. Supply and demand.

Unions cannot save workers from the kind of wage destruction that is coming and will only succeed in driving unemployment higher if they achieve wage concessions. More money equal less workers right? You understand how that process works I hope.

And this should also be telling you to take cover, save your money, pay down debt, be thankful if you are gainfully employed and to start preparing for the day when balance returns and there are once again good opportunites to invest and build.

This is a massive contraction cycle. A correction that is happening on a global scale and one that runs counter to the selfish demands at the local level.

So you want fairness? Lucky you. So then get prepared because you will be sharing more with the rest of the world and having less at home. American and European consumers have collectively driven the trend to globalization and now they are paying the piper for those past decisions out of personal incomes, out of future income.

First note to Rick: Take care of that heart and, of course, get well soon.

Next to Cam:

Well, “sweetheart”, as you say, your reply misses the mark. My original post riffed on your mischaracterization of the unions as a “cartel”. I merely pointed out the various corporate “cartels” that have also, and more copiously, funded their legislative toadies. I also took issue with your woebegone attitude that, “well, in the end it will make us more competitive” while, at the same time, sticking it to one class – and class is very much the issue – while assuming your own entitlement as sanctified. These issues you have not addressed, “dear”. I will, however, refer you to the Oracle of Omaha’s statement recently that there is a class war going on and it’s his class – perhaps yours? – that is winning. BTW, when CEO and Chairman Rick Waggoner lost $40 billion in the first quarter of 2008, he still walked away with his multimillion comp package, and when he was “fired”, he walked away with at least $8 million. While he was losing $40 billion, the highest paid Japanese car exec was clearing about $900 thousand. Nope, no entitlement there, right?

It took you awhile to get to that shoes analogy. Unlike the stereotype, the subject of shoes does not resonate with me. Other than my identity as a lawyer, you know nothing about me – or the law. Contracts such as union contracts calling for pensions, e.g., have not been usually torn up “as a mistake” because there was no mistake. Moreover, if you check the Pension Benefits Guarantee Administration is underfunded – and has been for over a decade – by about $23 billion.

As for taxpayer rights, where was your complaint when the GOP snookered a round-heeled Obama and got their extension of the Bush tax cuts which will add $140 billion in principal to the national debt, financing costs TBD? Of course, we could call our troops home and save … how many hundreds of billions if not trillions? No. The burden, to you, “honey”, falls on the lower classes, now treated with as little respect as welfare recipients. By the way, the GOP and TP have decided that disabled vets’ $850 per month stipend will be exed out over Christmas vacations. Well, as long as it doesn’t come out of your hide, right, “dear”?

Finally, you do not get to the origin of the West’s financial difficulties (leaving aside the US military-industrial-political complex’s costs). When China entered the WTO, the multinationals – who couldn’t possibly have lobbied for it, right? – saw a market of over a billion people and swooned. But if they can’t afford to buy anything more than the occasional Pepsi, it didn’t do the multinationals much good, did it, “cutie”? So the “lower class” jobs went from the US, Japan, Europe to China…who chortles as we piss away our heritage in unwinnable wars in Iraq and AfPak. By the way, ever read the economists’ opinions regarding two Bush tax cuts in the midst of two foreign wars? Well, as Cheney said, and no Republican appears to disagree, “it’s our due.” And when the final bell sounds for the end of the American half-century, China will use dollars to buy US corporations, euros to buy European corporations, yen to buy Japanese corporations and pounds to buy British corporations. End of their losses on developed countries’ specie and time to raise the value of the yuan.

You are in denial, counting your privileges and assuming that they are “your due” while stiffing the union “cartel”, as you put it, not recognizing the cartels composed of Wall Street, with its turnstile to plum DC positions, big oil, big pharma, and all the other bigs.

“Yes, because the money ain’t there and won’t be in the future to support the current obligations.”

The money was not there to bail out bank bondholders either … but gee somehow it happened. One economic system for the rich/connected, another for everyone else.