Dying Mall Finds an Unexpected Savior

Here’s an upbeat, dog-bites-man story concerning the neighboring town of Lafayette, Colorado, where a major piece of the retail economy has been on the skids for years. Wal-Mart and Albertson’s long ago vacated the city’s biggest mall, hollowing out two cavernous buildings and all but snuffing what little business had remained for the small shops and restaurants that once lined the plaza.  Although the city was hoping to redevelop the site with a mix of offices, residential and retail, when recession hit full-bore a couple of years ago commercial interest dried up.  Let’s skip ahead to the present: The site has just received a $22 million refurbishment; its huge, weed-sprouted parking lot has been repaved and a new, 4-acre lot added; the big-box stores have been joined under one roof, creating a 130,000-square-foot room; and, the facility has been drawing 10,000 visitors a week, many of whom are spending money at neighborhood restaurants and stores, although not at the “main attraction” itself.

Can you guess what “business” this new operator is in?  Here’s another hint: millions of dollars went into the installation of stadium-sized video monitors, state-of-the-art sound and light equipment, and seating for 4,000.  If you guessed “concert hall,” you’re close, since the place really rocks on weekends.  But this operator is in the business, not of rock concerts, but of redemption, since it’s a house of prayer — Flatiron Community Church (FCC), it’s called, with a congregation of 10,000 that is the second biggest in Colorado. And it is succeeding in such a big way that it has begun to revitalize a section of town that was commercially dead a year ago.  “Ten-thousand people have to buy gas, groceries and hamburgers somewhere,” says Jim Burgen, the tattooed and energetic lead pastor of the non-denominational Christian church.

Reluctant to Rezone

The move to the new building almost didn’t happen, since Lafayette was reluctant to rezone the area to allow a church that would generate no sales-tax revenues.  Fortunately, the city finally relented after years of discussions. “We looked at the plan and we looked at the economy,” said Lafayette’s planning director, Phillip Patterson, “and while we thought a residential/retail project would be the best and highest use, we had to ask ourselves if we were going to sit here five, 10 years from now and hold out for that.”  With the zoning issue out of the way, FCC bought Wal-Mart’s 108,000-square-foot building for $2.9 million and acquired Albertson’s old shell from the city for $1.4 million.  FCC couldn’t have been more pleased, since it solved a seating shortage that necessitated holding six services each weekend.  Moreover, they were never keen on building a shiny new church. “This is a recycled building, and we’re kind of recycled people,” the 49-year-old Burgen told a reporter for the Boulder Camera. The “recycling” would appear to be spreading, since the Wanetka Marketplace just west of Flatirons has found two new tenants for buildings that had sat unoccupied: Sunflower Marketplace (Whole Foods on-the-cheap, sort of), and Jax Merchandise.

Who’d have imagined in this day and age that a church would be the anchor tenant of an urban renewal project?

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  • Robert April 21, 2011, 5:47 pm

    @Martin, Benjamin, and Steve…

    You guys are all awesome. I appreciate your independence of thought, and your respect for the value of debate.

    My last contribution regarding the whole “God vs. no-God” discussion is simply that evil can not exist without good, and that goodness is not commonly considered the corruption of evil, while the inverse definitely is a commonly held viewpoint; and yet one can not decry natural selection as evil lest they choose never to eat again, for every calorie required to sustain our biological selves comes from a formerly living organism of some sort. We must kill to survive.

    Enlightenment seems to be most corrupted when the labels begin to be applied. Suffice it to say I like the way you all think, and I’ve appreciated this discussion.

  • Chris T. April 21, 2011, 4:37 pm

    Two surgeons discuss that nature of man and creation one day, and the second’s belief in Christ and one’s immortal soul.

    The first surgeon tells him that “I have performed hundreds of operations and also autopsies on people, and I have never found the soul, it does not exist”

    He passes away not long after that, and the autopsy is performed by the second surgeon.

    After opening the head, and examining the brain, he tells the co-workers there:
    “See, its as I thought, no MIND!”

  • TM April 21, 2011, 5:34 am

    While visiting friends in Southern California in an unnamed city of less than 100,000, they invited us to attend their church service. We were shocked that it was held in a school auditorium and there were easily over 1000 attendees but that was just the first surprise that Sunday. The church had a christian boy band that played for 20 minutes and this was followed by communion (held every weekend) and the sermon where the preacher pretty much said “we must not only obey the Lord, but anyone who is our superior, including our boss, our local leaders and our government.” Couldn’t wait to get home to our 150 person congregation with singing of hymns and our pastor with his message of tolerance.

    • Robert April 21, 2011, 5:36 pm

      “we must not only obey the Lord, but anyone who is our superior, including our boss, our local leaders and our government.”

      – Scary.

  • F. Beard April 21, 2011, 5:20 am

    The stock theory violates the “Constant” of Value in Fair weights and measures. Steve

    No they do not. Common stock is a share in a corporation for better or worse. There is no fraud nor is their a “Constant” of value for that matter.

    Stocks are a constant variable F. B. Steve

    If properly managed, stock values should appreciate.

    Stocks are money right now you F.B., if you and someone else agrees to private contract. Steve

    Nope. The capital gains tax prevents that. Capital gains are measured and taxed in FRNs which partially negates their use as money.

    Just Do It Nike ! Money is anything that can be agreed to by private contract. Steve

    No. The capital gains tax is an effective enforcement of the FRN money monopoly for private debts.

  • Robert April 20, 2011, 10:03 pm

    Benjamin and Martin, please re-read what Mario posted:

    “If believing in divinity, or religion is a funny thing, atheism is even more so a funny thing. ”

    If you yield to logic, then Mario wins this debate, and you both lose.

    To believe in the random origination theory of evolution requires a faith far stronger than simple faith in God (or some other intelligence that transcends the physical barrier of our Universe). This point makes the athiest the ultimate hyprocrite

    Let me elaborate (if I have Rick’s blessing since this will deviate somewhat from the essence of today’s subject matter) :

    Intelligence exists in this Universe- you and I are proof of this inescapable fact; and because the fact of existent intelligence is infallible, the argument of random origination evolution REQUIRES you, and any others who ascribe to Dawkins, to maintain unswerving FAITH that intelligence is an accidental by-product of the evolutionary process. I’m afraid this makes you every bit as religious as those who choose to thump their bible and condemn you to hell…

    But, if the accidental by-product theory of intelligence is accurate, then how is the power of choice justified? As Steve so eloquently states above:

    “The Mosaic Law is not gone, never will be, because that Immutable Law is how we know Right from Wrong. ”

    The ability to rationalize is what gives rise to intelligence, and yet the ability to rationalize is nutured, fostered, and passed on through the generations- good choices are rewarded, poor choices are puniched, and REALLY poor choices (like stepping off a building because you think you can fly) get you a one way ticket OUT of the gene-pool.

    There is no Darwinian process that accurately describes the emergence of rationalization. IE: no one can describe the natural process that inspires the process of passing knowledge learned to the next generation, but there is another point that I think we can all agree on- The process of passing our knowledge to our offspring, and others whom we favor, is one that we undertake out of love or favoritism for those that we pass these lessons to- we want them to enjoy the Darwinian advantage of what we have learned, yes?

    Now I ask you- how random can this be? Intelligence begets intelligence. The fact that intelligence is the ultimate gift we pass from generation to generation means that at some point far back in our Darwinian pre-history, this gift was passed to us for the first time.

    I await your refutations with baited breath…

    • Martin Snell April 20, 2011, 10:45 pm

      First see my response to Mario above. (Watch “Wonders of the Universe” for a view that conflicts with what you say).

      I prefer to follow Richard Feynman’s words “I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it’s much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong”.

      I don’t really know what the right answers are (and that is great), but its pretty obvious the major religions are “outdated”.

    • Larry D April 21, 2011, 12:01 am

      I agree Martin, all that love your neighbor, turn the other cheek, easing the suffering of the afflicted, do unto others as they would do unto you, kindness as virtue, suffer the little children nonsense is way-way outdated. The sooner that we discard it, the sooner we can replace it with something more…say…2011.

      For a view that conflicts with what you say, read David Berlinski’s “The Devil’s Delusion.”

      On second thought, you better not. He pokes excellent fun at Dawkins.

    • Martin Snell April 21, 2011, 12:09 am

      Larry,

      Nothing in atheism that goes against what you said. But atheists do it because it is the right thing to do, not because they are told they will burn in hell if they don’t. You should read Dawkins on ethics.

    • Steve April 21, 2011, 12:19 am

      @ Martin “. . .I don’t really know what the right answers are (and that is great), but its pretty obvious the major religions are “outdated”. . . ”

      Logically illogical Martin. If one does not know “. . . I don’t really know what the right answers are. . .” one cannot state “. . .major religions are “outdated”. . . “.

      Martin knows what Martin knows. Martin knows that Martin cannot do brain surgery blind folded with one arm tied behind his back. Thus, Martin knows some things he knows he does not know. The great majority of intelligence and reality “is” Martin, is the “Things we do not know we do not know”. Martin admits not knowing what is “. . .outdated. . .” yet; where is the logic ???? This is Martin’s reality, yes ? What say the Immutable Law Martin ? Does gravity work, to cite Ben? Not necessarily say I, because one can spin an object on a string until gravity is undone. Still gravity is, only defeated by artificial means – artificial means; does that equate Martin ? Life is a miracle of complexity written about so clearly by a few here today. One may find that there is something real that they did not know they did not know. I believe the greatest conservatives have absolutely liberal minds. And, in turn the greatest liberals have the most bigoted minds, blindly pursuing only what they know they know “Greenspan/Bernanke”. When a mind like Bernanke is packed full of tripe, there is no more room to learn, only to brainwash. A bright, but; not over educated person offers the best opportunity at really finding the needle in the haystack. One needs to be able to communicate, to read, write, and do math at a high level, or spend the time independently to obtain what is needed. OUR problem is the highly educated in political science, economics, attorneying, education, government, et. al., who amount to nothing more than brainwashed Ph.D.’s teaching only what they were taught back to, who. . .Marx ? Obama has a good I.Q., he is just brainwashed into anti-constitutional behavior, even though he is supposed to be a constitutional law professor – the joke is on all of us.

      Truely Martin, there is a vast world of “Unknown” things that we do not even know we do not know. This is a great forum, and I thank you for allowing me to respond to your words. I hope I may continue to learn from you. And, I pray your mind find many things you do not know you do not know. You are engaged and I appreciate that in you.

    • Benjamin April 21, 2011, 12:26 am

      Robert,

      Refutations? From me? I’m afraid I’ve been miscast as an evolutionary atheist, in the same way I was miscast as a rapid, backwoods preacher earlier 🙂

      To clarify things, I am a Levayan Satanist, grasp the (mostly irrelevent) realities of evolution, but also revere God without any major bones to pick with Christianity (Individual Christians, though, like any other human, can be another matter).

      That’s an “illogical” mess that I won’t explain or ask you to sort out, though!

      “[faith in impossible randomness] makes the athiest the ultimate hyprocrite”

      And what if it is a case where God only scattered the seeds in his creation, and took to tending the natural forces which govern our gene pool? Furthermore, what if he does this in order lead us all to a strong and enduring free will, by forcing the seeds to learn it one painstaking step at a time, over millions of years? And if God likes to vary the shaping forces, so that we learn it better and more solidly?

      The random-hypocrites could very well be on to something, so I’m not especially eager to dismiss anyone just yet, and probably never will do so. That would be like me slamming religion, only for opposite reasons, which I’m also likely to not dismiss any time soon. On the other hand…

      See my post to Christ T, earlier. I wonder how many arrogant atheists realize how much Christianity has made possible for them today. By the sound of them, not much. Nor do they seem to care that they don’t.
      And that is low indeed because…

      Ever see the movie ‘Conan the Barbarian’? Great movie. Anyway, in it, Thulsa Doom (James Earl Jones) explains to Conan that “I made you. Destroy me, and you never will have been”.

      Strong and enduring faith in insanely troubled times accounts for the survival and rise of Western culture, including science. That which should be revered ought not be attacked, naturally. One doesn’t have to Christian or even religious, but to attack Christianity on the basis that it’s “outdated” or “naive” is to not know (or acknowledge) how important it’s past is to us. So many atheists decry the “slow” advance of the sciences, for example, and blame religion. But I assure them that things would be much worse if all the works that were preserved, were not. By the same token, it would be impossible to maintain faith forever if things did not improve from the time of Christianity’s birth and rise.

      But that mutual respect, let alone reverence, is too much to ask of either side. They want to be at each other’s throats. They want the delusion of “winning” some stupidly impossible game. They want to feel doomed if they don’t wipe out the other side.

      Hungry, hungry wendigos. They grow thinnner as they feed off the carnage, and grow ever larger to support even larger appetites than came before it.

      Not accusing you of being a “ghoul”, Robert, just saying that is how they want it and have it.

      That’s my rebuttal, and I’m stickin’ to it. And whatever the other sides want to think, my view is the right one.

    • Steve April 21, 2011, 12:46 am

      @ Martin
      “. . .But atheists do it because it is the right thing to do, not because they are told they will burn in hell if they don’t. You should read Dawkins on ethics. . .”

      Martin, no one knows Right v. Wrong except by the Mosaic Law. That Law is the foundation that is ingrained in the child as a learned “knowledge” from parent to child for over 5000 years. Left to self, biologically in the male, there is only kindness to get sex, and more likely brute force to get sex, food, and shelter. The male will breed any female, even if its his git, grand git, or great grand git. The male will take whatever his brute force will allow him to take. The female hu man will shelter her offspring until she gets too hungry. She will seek a best breeder to protect her from other females so that she gets food, shelter, breeding. Still ongoing biology/social interaction in real life, in real time, today. The distinction between murder, and killing is not something an anti- learns from animal behavior. The Mosaic Law establishes the Rule, and that Rule was learned and taught to you by someone directly, or it was learned by example from the Mosaic Law.

      Hell is a choice. The Law provided by Moses judges the acts of man and establishes Right from Wrong and the punishments for the judgments made in Immutable Law. I don’t care if one chooses to go to hell ( well I do, but; its a personal choice). But, I do care that the Mosaic Law says that if one kills my steer, one will pay treble. That the Mosaic Law says that if one trespasses into my home it is not murder when I kill him. The Mosaic Law establishes Right and Wrong, and the punishments for the failing of the flesh. As to the choices for the soul, those are freely made, and have nothing to do with Right and Wrong under the Immutable Law which defines Right and Wrong. Don’t believe, still going to get killed for violating the Mosaic Law. The soul, well that is one’s private individual choice.

      An open mind accepts possibility, and cannot say “There is no G-d of Abraham” which is the same G-d for the Hebrew, Arab, and Christian. Truely liberal thought allows for the possibility, and cannot discount the historial facts established.

  • Mercurious April 20, 2011, 9:31 pm

    I have to stay, theological considerations aside, I was relieved to see it was a church. I thought when I got to the McGuffin it was going to be a Corrections Corp. of America ‘big box.’ All things considered, I prefer redemption given at leisure like this rather than on the Green Mile walk. Harmonicas always gave me the creeps.

  • fallingman April 20, 2011, 8:19 pm

    All I can say is thank GOD the city of Lafayette Colorado has a “planning director” who decides what you can and can’t do with “your” property…besides pay taxes on it that is. Gotta have parasitic bureaucrats to make the world a better place. They add so much value. And I’ll bet Phil’s a real party animal.

    What a waste of an incarnation.

  • Chris T. April 20, 2011, 7:16 pm

    Benjamin’s criticism may be harsh, and undeniably, as Rick points out, people attending do receive the sustenance they seem to be looking for.

    BUT, what a sad sustenance it is indeed.
    Which is why on many levels, I have to agree with Ben.

    These mega, entertainment as religion, do-stuff churches (whether its people publicly acting like raving lunatics by speaking in tougues, or receiving the jolt when their forehead is touched by the self-annointed, etc, etc.) have no theology, no real logic, and their, almost always, “literal” interpretation of scripture turns out to be the preacher’s interpretation.

    When I want that feel good spiritualiyt, I go to a Dead concert (really Furthur now). At least that has (artistic) substance.

    Not knowing this for certain, I will bet that there are American flags everywhere, the preacher prays for the troops, and is generally supportive of the guv’mint.

    Sad to see that the great change in thinking about Christianity, that Luther and the reformation brought about, which taught that it is not what you do (pay to get out of purgatory, recite quasi prayer-mill like), but what you truly believe, that matters, couldn’t even survive a few centuries.
    I guess people simply can’t do without seeing, hearing, the experiental.

    My IQ comments I will leave out.

    Flame away, no problem, but the ever advancing relativism of anything and everything is just sad…

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 8:08 pm

      Hi Chris,

      Glad you saw my point, but again I must apologize for coming off so strongly and in bad taste. It just struck such a chord in me is all, and at the moment it felt like the approriate thing to write.

      “These mega, entertainment as religion, do-stuff churches have no theology, no real logic, and their, almost always, “literal” interpretation of scripture turns out to be the preacher’s interpretation.”

      I can only agree from the generalized examples, but yeah… sad but true. Whatever one’s persuasions are, though, there is always another side to religion which all, even atheists, can revere. Take the great cathedrals which have for so long stood the test of time. For what reasons were they built?

      Among other things, they were recognition of and homeage to the calling which some monks heard and heeded. If they had not heard and heeded, we might well not have Western culture today, for it was their undertaking the task of copying… by hand, word for word, illustration for illustraion… the remanents of the great written works which survived the collapse which without there simply wouldn’t be a Western culture as we know it today.

      Whether one believes the calling to such a task was God or instincts from the primordial goo, there is no denying that what the devoted monks did was vital to life as we know it today. Nor can it be denied that the great churches and abbeys which recognize and enshrine the callings to great deeds are fitting monuments/structures.

      Compared to that, saving an old big-box store from being wasted seems so… Well, not very reverent, but not entirely irreverent either 🙂 A civic center that has emerged in these troubled times because they are troubled times. It is therefore why I see it as either succumbing to the troubles or going away when the troubled times do (which they won’t, on their own). On the plus side, maybe future greatness will be born there. One never knows…

  • regionswork April 20, 2011, 7:10 pm

    We are challenged by the mystery of our own existence and the context in which we find ourselves. There is a spiritual perspective which encompasses an evolutionary universe, day to day choice by intelligent life and the fact that the creation is not micro-managed. A paragraph follows:
    In Greater Community Spirituality, the New Message Book of Theology, God is described in this way:

    “In the Greater Community, God is complete. In your world, God is a God of your world, a God of your race, a God of your history, a God of your temperament, a God of your fears and aspirations, a God of your great heroes, a God of your great tragedies, a God that is related to your tribe and your time. But in the Greater Community, God is so much greater, so complete—beyond the definitions of any race, beyond the history of any race, beyond the temperament, fears and aspirations of any race, beyond the grasp of any individual or collective philosophy. And yet, you find God in a pure impulse, in a timeless moment of recognition, in the desire to act beyond the sphere of your own personal interests and motives, in the recognition of another, in the motive to give, in the inexplicable experience of affinity. These are translatable. This is God in action. For you, this is God.

    http://www.newmessage.org/introduction/what-is-god.php

  • Wallenstein April 20, 2011, 6:50 pm

    Have fun reading about non-denominational churches:

    http://www.alittleleaven.com/

    Listen to several of these podcasts to understand the differences between a non-denominational “seeker church” and a traditional denomination:

    http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/

  • F. Beard April 20, 2011, 6:20 pm

    In other words, WE are to “use” Specie Money, and give to Rome the fiat fraud when we are forced to make a use. Steve

    Certainly the government should ONLY use fiat since otherwise we allow private counterfeiting of government money. And private moneys could be gold and silver EXCEPT they require usury (or wicked hoarding) to generate a return. But usury is forbidden between fellow countrymen in Deuteronomy 23:19-20. Common stock as money, however, is completely ethical since it does not require borrowing or lending, much less at interest.

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 10:48 pm

      The stock theory violates the “Constant” of Value in Fair weights and measures. Stocks are a constant variable F. B.

      Stocks are money right now you F.B., if you and someone else agrees to private contract.

      Just Do It Nike ! Money is anything that can be agreed to by private contract.

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 10:56 pm

      Another ‘point’ F. Beard,

      Executive money, the Gold Standard started by F.D.R. in about 1934 is government money created by executive act in violation of the Separation of Powers doctrine, usurpation of exclusive legislative authority.

      Silver specie Money, coined by Act of the legislative branch as a Dollar, 371 4/16th grains of fine silver struck as a Coin by the Mint, is the People’s money, not the governments. In fact the executive should have been beheaded, (cite omitted) for shaving in creating the “Gold Standard”.

      The People are just happier in anarchy.

      We would not have the trouble we have today if the People had forced the legislative branch to do their job in 1934 and execute F.D. Roosevelt for High Treason in debasing, shaving, and acting in treasonous design to violate the Separation of Powers Doctrine.

      Guess someone created a little diversion in 1929, yes ?

      We are paying for F.D.R.’s NEW DEAL, debt right now and it is only getting worse.

      PEOPLE MONEY = LEGISLATIVE BRANCH

      GOVERNMENT MONEY = EXECUTIVE BRANCH

  • ricecake April 20, 2011, 5:22 pm

    They should talk to the good people of the world famous and one of the biggest greatest multimillion telecast church Crystal Cathedral Church in Orange County California. Crystal Cathedral was bankrupt about 2 years ago.

    God save us all, lol.

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 5:42 pm

      Good point Ricecake, believers exist in hope and goodwill. Non-believers believe in the great black void. Guess who’s compass is skewed to self.

    • ricecake April 22, 2011, 1:53 am

      After this church goes bankrupt, consider learn from the Germans. You can converse it to a eatery.

      Churches — A Place to Party, Live or Dine | euromaxx

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfHKjKGDmhg

  • Cam Fitzgerald April 20, 2011, 5:16 pm

    Quite the day on the markets. Hope all of you can recognize that this is just a big pump that precedes the dump.

    Get ready

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 5:39 pm

      Hope so Cam, I’m still hopelessly bet bear. Will probably die there until the crash, when I expect to go long. Wish I were able to play short term, just can’t.

    • mario cavolo April 20, 2011, 6:18 pm

      Frustratedly with you both on this point…Cheers guys.

    • Robert April 20, 2011, 10:09 pm

      Cam-

      it’s gonna take one hell of a reversal in the dollar…. yes?

      I mean, stocks purchased from dollars will have to be sold into dollars….

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 11:17 pm

      Robert, federal reserve notes will reverse. Just too many betting and believing in the total fall. Lots of sucker moves going on right now. Soon all will have bet everything they have on the swoon. Nearly there I think, but; these things always take much longer than I expect.

      Maybe one of you can help me here. A foreign guy holds a T-note he got for 50 bucks for frn he got for selling inflation to the issuer’s subjects. (what happed to the 50 frn that went to the government, war costs / welfare ? – who gets the 50 / industrial C.E.O.?) Guy wants to sell the 50 T-note for bucks. There are tons and tons of 50 buck T-notes. Where do the bucks come from to buy the T-note at 50 ? Why would anyone pay 50 when there are tons and tons of 50 T-notes out there? Same can be said of trading 50 T-note for gold, who would give anyone 50 tally when there are so many?

      How long before foreign guy says I’m not paying that much for a T-note any more. How long can foreign guy keep exporting inflation, when foreign guy is expecting 30% wage pressure per year for the next 5 years?

    • mario cavolo April 21, 2011, 4:09 am

      We’ll know alot more when it starts hovering around major support at 74. Almost there…

    • Cam Fitzgerald April 21, 2011, 7:45 am

      It may go right to the brink Mario. Reversal is in the cards though. When exactly I do not know but politics will play a big role. Don’t buy into the bet and the fake that the dollar will crash on this cycle though because that is just a suckers play. I am ready to invest in dollars again and put my money where my mouth is.

      I am 100% certain. Not a shred of doubt in my mind.

    • Cam Fitzgerald April 21, 2011, 8:01 am

      `
      Just one last comment.

      Keep your ear to the ground and put your radar on max focus. There is a nice fat precious metals short on the horizon. When it is done, buy like the devil. It is going to be one hell of an opportunity and you won’t want to be left out this time around. I prefer quality gold stock with dividends. Just my preference.

      Income and metals ownership in a time of insecurity.

    • mario cavolo April 21, 2011, 11:16 am

      yea…..James Flanagan over at Gann Financial is screaming same like a banshee cycle silver top commodities top too….seems quite intelligent & consistent about his analysis. Rick of course is happy to for all of us to play it all both ways following the charts/trends/pivots.

    • mario cavolo April 21, 2011, 11:35 am

      Hi Cam,

      Part of me believe the dirty little secret that Bernanke and friends have is that they recognize the “China” currency issue as the key driver, and that in China’s unwillingness to more fairly repeg the yuan or let it float (they absolutely are out for themselves first, acting for their own primary advantages first, their own domestic issues first and that shouldn’t surprise anyone here. ) Indeed, make no mistake the U.S. Sino relationship is the primary geopolitical and socioeconomic force to contend with, so then I think their chat around the table discussion was something like “Well, the China currency issue is at the core and since they won’t play nice, then we’ll make it happen, we’ll do what’ need to devalue the dollar, let’s print.” Of course they’d never admit to whatever degree of weight it may be true.

      Its them thumbing their noses at China. Yes, they know the damage is that it will (and is) causing inflation at home and they regard that as the lesser of the evil choices/directions to take. Under the broad circumstances, regardless of other analysis, a weaker dollar is what they want and need. Indeed, they are playing with fire and let’s hope they get away with it cuz a Batman style “Wham” “Kazaam” “Pow!” “Kablooey” event is not in anybody’s best interests. It has also been suggested that with China’s $3 trillion in reserves, they will use some of that to buy U.S. equities as an offset to their falling USD holdings, & will help keep the markets propped up. Makes sense.

      Meanwhile, the genuine inflation issue is really screwing up the game they all seem to want to play.

      Way too complicated variables for me to even think I might have a handle on it…

      Cheers, Mario

  • nonplused April 20, 2011, 5:10 pm

    Religion is a funny thing. True believers must accept not as fact but as some sort of ultimate truth several things that seem very unlikely all at once. You would think that sort of muddled world view would hinder them socially and financially, yet most of them manage to function quite well in the world despite all of the obvious contradictions between the way they live and the way their religion teaches them to profess to live.

    The “Jesus of Suburbia” worshiped at FCC bears almost no relation to the Jesus envisioned by the founders of Christianity, but the God you worship is beside the point. It is the development of unquestioned beliefs that is the point.

    But the most interesting part of all is that religious people tend on average to have more children, especially if you count just the Bible belt in the US or look at Muslim or Catholic nations. Does this imply that religion actually offers a Darwinian advantage? Are those without religious conviction actually withdrawing their genes from competition through their low birth rates? I believe it to be the case. In a few short generations there will be no atheists left because the belief system simply doesn’t breed competitively with a religious belief system, whatever the facts of the matter might be. So it is an interesting paradox: God does not have to exist in order for religious beliefs to prevail, because religious beliefs are often combined with a moral outlook that favors aggressive reproduction and compels men to assist in the rearing of children.

    I will restate it because I think it is so counter intuitive but yet obvious: Religion survives not based on fact, but because it offers a Darwinian advantage. It will always survive and prosper even though it is now accepted as fact amongst the educated that the universe as of yet shows no traces of a god or gods, because it offers the unlearned clear lifestyle guidance that is conductive to successful reproduction and child rearing. Amongst the educated several “truths” from the Bible are clearly not acceptable unless taken allegorically (the 6 day creation 4000 years ago, the flood, etc.), but yet these “truths” can be accepted in a world view and they do not hinder reproduction. People who don’t believe in heaven often decide not to bring further children into the world at their own expense, favoring hedonism now rather than later in heaven.

    • F. Beard April 20, 2011, 5:21 pm

      It will always survive and prosper even though it is now accepted as fact amongst the educated that the universe as of yet shows no traces of a god or gods, because it offers the unlearned clear lifestyle guidance that is conductive to successful reproduction and child rearing. nonplused

      Actually, probability theory alone makes the Creator hypothesis at least 50% likely. Add in the historical testimony of eye-witnesses and the scales are definitely tipped in favor of the Creator hypothesis.

      So then, what is the basis for your unbelief since the odds are against you?

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 5:37 pm

      Try the word day ‘translated differently, yet; still correctly:

      Period of Time

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 6:07 pm

      Ah, nothing like giving the anti-religious (not all atheists are, btw) a taste of their own eugenics!

      That said, I find your well-written and well-deserved rebuttal to be just as disingenious as their arguments against religiously-induced breeding; it is in fact a eugenics argument, wrapped in religious clothing (eek!).

      Much the same way religion apparently protects this new church of which the article is written about. Seems the same economic model by another name works better. I fail to see how.

      Anyway, can’t we all just be a part of the universal laws of nature, whatever their nature, be mindful of that reality, and not terribly worry about who wins an unwinnable debate?

      Not to try dominating the discussion, but am I the only one who sees no economic differences? Am I the only one who sees that gravity will do as it must in these deflationary/depressionary times (or rather, system)?

      These are the questions worth asking and debating. And as far as that goes, I’ve seen churches like these come and go. The Chicago area, as many heavy urban areas, is/was full of them. At the very best, they fail to significantly raise/save (economically) any neighborhood in which they sprout up. At worst, they fail and go away, like yet another hair and nail salon. Faith, as always it will, lives on.

    • mario cavolo April 20, 2011, 6:15 pm

      Hi nonplused,

      “…it is now accepted as fact amongst the educated that the universe as of yet shows no traces of a god or gods”.

      I don’t think I’m taking this out of context and may I suggest it is an incredibly arrogant and of course misguiding statement.

      At best one could settle for “we don’t know, we can’t comprehend” , as in a way, Aquinas did. Well explained by a fab Jesuit Anthony Demello, its like trying to tell everyone what a mango tastes like, “its sweet yet sour, smooth yet thick, um well…” , when you yourself have never actually eaten one. Later in life, St. Thomas of Aquinas, after having written his historical volumes, came to that conclusion and fell silent.

      If believing in divinity, or religion is a funny thing, atheism is even more so a funny thing. When the “Dawkins” folks come along spouting fact, that’s an instant red flag, and that’s without considering his offensive arrogance.

      Having entered into the deepest contemplation and analysis of such matters, one concludes one observes laws of energy and the universe which one attributes to a “power or powers far greater than and beyond ourselves”, regardless of which spiritual philosophy or religion one might attach it to; it is a power a spirit an energy in this world that is far beyond neurological goo. Quantum physics and other studies clearly identify impossible to explain outcomes such as the expectations of the researcher impacting the results.

      I really like your “Jesus of Suburbia” point. Even though I want to appreciate the Christian teachings, it bothers me to notice how the actual historical churches have formed themselves by man’s own interests into structures far beyond the simple Jesus a relatively poor man in worn, dirty sandals preaching on the streets.

      Cheers, Mario

    • Martin Snell April 20, 2011, 10:34 pm

      I’m with you except for this: “In a few short generations there will be no atheists left because the belief system simply doesn’t breed competitively with a religious belief system, whatever the facts of the matter might be. ”

      Quite the opposite is the case. No religion is the fastest growing “religion” . http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2009/03/fastest-growing-religion-no-re.html

      It makes sense actually. Just because someone is born into a religion does not mean they will stay in that religion for life. Quite the opposite. For many people there is no better antidote to religion than having them attend a religious service.

      In addition, the higher the education level the less prevalence religion is. So it is more likely that lesser educated people are having more children, and it is the more educated that select themselves out – or maybe they just know how to sue birth control.

    • Martin Snell April 20, 2011, 10:41 pm

      Mario …

      If you have a chance I would highly suggest that you watch Brian Cox’s latest masterwork “Wonders of the Universe” , a new series from the BBC. It is in many ways the most spiritual story of existence I have seen, yet there is no religion or god involved. A wonderful piece of television by Mr Cox, who is quickly becoming the heir to Carl Sagan.

      A bit of a blurb on him is here
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/8330863/Brian-Cox-Im-not-anti-religion.-Im-anti-maniac.html

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 11:26 pm

      @ Ben, “. . .Anyway, can’t we all just be a part of the universal laws of nature, whatever their nature, be mindful of that reality, and not terribly worry about who wins an unwinnable debate?. . .”

      Chief Justice John Marshall debated that rather quickly. His first question, ‘Do you believe in the Immutable Law?’ Answer No. Marshall, I have won the debate because if one does not believe in the Immutable Law one will change the rules and change the rules until all is lost.”

      One canot argue with Mobocracy/Democracy because its very Nature is destruction. Expand the theory at will.

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 11:38 pm

      @ Martin “. . .In addition, the higher the education level the less prevalence religion is. ”

      A great point Martin. There are 5 major universities all teaching the same 10 plank theory using mobocracy as a cover. The real destruction of Liberty comes from the persons brainwashed at those institutions, say Yale and what is it Harvard for Obama? Obama practices wordsmith religion for poltical gain it would seem. Bushie practiced religion while violating the Mosaic Law in learned practice from where, Yale ?

      There are a few Ph.D.’s who escape the brainwashing, but darn few, just like attorney school. And, should a Yaley, Harvarder, Prinstonian, escape; Nashs Non Co-operative Game theory will keep the Ph.D. marginalized.

      True learning does not occur because of a professor, only brainwashing is taught by the Ph.D. Professor. Like I said, some few break the brainwashing to reach out for Understanding, and Education via experience. Bernanke is an example. Bernanke is brainwashed into a theory based upon how the Great Depression can be prevented. Bernanke is blind to reality, and true learning; blindly storming forward with no regard to consequences. Bernanke must prove his theory right regardless of the destruction and outcome. Had Bernanke not been brainwashed in regard to debt, debt spending, debt slaves, debt government, he might have learned before he destroys everything. Greenspan, Bernanke, all believe they are g-ds superior, all knowing, omni-everything.

    • mario cavolo April 21, 2011, 4:07 am

      I confess.

      I “tolerate” Sunday Mass at a Catholic church! When i go to a non-Catholic church that’s filled with energy and spirit, its a nice experience.

      When I go to a Catholic church Mass service, I am bored out of my mind by the worst droning music and bloated prayers in the world.

      Yet…this is an observation only of an earthly issue.
      It does nothing to change my sense/belief/faith that divinity, in some way touches, is part of, is throughout and inseparable part of our existence.

      For hardcore atheists, I like to refer to Napoleon Hill’s definition of the mysterious higher power in the universe in Think and Grow Rich. He calls it “Infinite Intelligence”. A must read classic by the way.

      Cheers, Mario

      Cheers, Mario

    • mario cavolo April 21, 2011, 4:16 am

      Another thing:

      People with nothing or oppressed often get rooted in their faith community, because as the biblical principle tells us, its the one thing the oppressors can’t take from us.

      The African America gospel movement and churches are a fine example of that. I went to a poor countryside pentecostal church in Jamaica a few years back. Wow, what an experience.

      But then comes the danger, of mixing emotionalism with spiritualism, of missing the actual presence of a “God’s Spirit”.

      The problem can be that manipulating spiritual folks learn the emotional psychology and persuasion ropes. They learn the language and influence patterns to influence their congregation to give money, etc. That’s the ugly, unfortunate part of the spiritual scene.

    • mario cavolo April 21, 2011, 11:38 am

      Martin, BIG thanks for the TED Dan Ariely link… I love those points and am modifying some of marketing documents as quick as I can because of it. Powerful stuff.

      Cheers, Mario

  • mario cavolo April 20, 2011, 4:47 pm

    Nice! Well run church communities bring a meaningful root to the community, to families, to people who need support, and who want to express their faith in their God.

    If it can be a needed boost to the economy too, all the better. This place sounds similar to the big church community model made very well known and successful by Pastor Rick Warren at his place in Orange County. I had attended there a few times when living in Newport Beach…they were doing fabulous job for the community and providing an excellent spiritual faith experience for Christians.

    Cheers, Mario

  • F. Beard April 20, 2011, 4:34 pm

    Speaking of religion, the Jews in Jerusalem could have avoided destruction if they had not reneged on their solemn vow to release their Hebrew debt slaves – Jerimiah 34:6-22.

    And speaking of gold and silver, it did not save them then so why should it save us now?

    ‘They will fling their silver into the streets and their gold will become an abhorrent thing; their silver and their gold will not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD. They cannot satisfy their appetite nor can they fill their stomachs, for their iniquity has become an occasion of stumbling. Ezekiel 7:19

    Fundamental reform in money creation is the solution per Matthew 22:16-22 – separate government and private money supplies.

  • Arthur April 20, 2011, 3:49 pm

    Religion is about following the rules. Christianity is about all of the rules already having already been followed and that perfect tally given to those in who believe, by faith, that Jesus is who he claimed to be.
    Religion is working hard to attain a goal. Christianity is working hard in gratitude for the goal already attained.

    • F. Beard April 20, 2011, 4:28 pm

      Amen! Well said!

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 5:31 pm

      Disagree Arthur, the issue is about a flesh that is still condemned, and forgiveness of the soul because the flesh is incapable of following the Law. The Mosaic Law is not gone, never will be, because that Immutable Law is how we know Right from Wrong. Commit murder, the flesh in condemned even today. The Mosaic Law is what establishes Right from Wrong for this stock market, and the banksters. Our problems seem to extend from certain “views” made up in the minds of men, to create new ordinances on what usury is, and who it may be charged against, and what fair weights and measures are. ( will not go into the purple robes, and that caste of foreigners)

      We are not to follow the ordiances of men, because those ordinances passed at Golgotha, and the blood payment Made for those who are known and will accept it. We are to follow legislation based solely upon the Mosaic Law. In other words, WE are to “use” Specie Money, and give to Rome the fiat fraud when we are forced to make a use. A true heart seeks and obeys the Law of Moses. We are where we are in this economy because HU MAN would rather find excuses in the thoughts of men, their ordinances, as an excuse for not obeying the Law of Moses.

  • Jess April 20, 2011, 3:03 pm

    It just goes to show that people understand and know that something is missing in thier life. They continue to look for God. They are sheep looking for a shepherd, we have seen these mega churches go up in our area too, with the parking lots full. They want a church that gives them what they want, when they want it, without telling them what they should do.
    When Moses was up on the mountain in Exodus 32, while he was up there, the people began to murmur and complain. They couldn’t wait for Moses to come down, they knew Moses went to hear from the Lord, (Ex. 32:1)so they gave Aaron all the gold and silver and told him to make them there own god that they would worship, after God had told them not to (Ex. 20:23) They then began to play, the Bible says and were naked. (a sign that points to being away from God, and is ever present today!) My point is that these mega churches are not much different than in the book of Exodus, taking the gold and silver to make their own god to worship. Build a big church and people will come thinking God must be there.
    God wants to come down and meet with you, but on His terms not ours! The Bible says “Whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13) You can spend eternity in heaven if you repent, by asking Jesus to save you from your sins, and asking Him to give you a home in heaven!

  • Scotter April 20, 2011, 2:19 pm

    I have hope in my soul. Me thinks, you pessimists have soap in your hole. Actually these same structures are being occupied in Texas by fitness centers? or Goodwill. Capitalism starts at your front door and across the street. Walk away from the flat screens and get busy. We are all in this mess together!!!

  • JohnJay April 20, 2011, 2:06 pm

    Reminds me of an old George Carlin rant about religon.
    “God is all knowing, all seeing, and all powerful………and he needs money!”

  • reverb April 20, 2011, 1:38 pm

    Amen, Bob!

  • bob April 20, 2011, 1:21 pm

    PTL, who was and is and is to come. Get ready people time is running short. Take notice of the gift of grace that God has offered through the sacarfice of his one and only Son. John 3:16-17, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” Happy resurrection day.

  • Ben April 20, 2011, 1:14 pm

    Sounds good until you add in the costs to the general public. Police protection is needed 24/7 to protect this investment, this is provided free by the tax payers. Since this is a religion, they pay none of the expenses to support them, such as emergency assistance like the fire department. So the quicker this group moves to a new location the better for the local tax payers.

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 4:18 pm

      No property taxes in Colorado ?

  • Martin Snell April 20, 2011, 1:09 pm

    Only in America!

    In just about every other developed nation religion is on a trajectory to extinction. Not too long ago I read a research piece which claimed that countries with the worst social safety nets had the highest religious “adherence”, and vice versa. Makes sense. Most of the developed world cringes each time a US politician, or sports star, invokes god at seemingly every turn.

    And obscene numbers of Americans don’t yet agree that evolution explains how we got here (which is akin to them thinking the earth is flat and that Santa Claus and the tooth fairy really exist). Unfortunately this has something to do with the mess America is in. We live in a complex world which requires us to understand complex processes and interconnections and to adjust as the world continues to change around us. (If the answer is god told me we are in big trouble). As Keynes famously said – “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 1:58 pm

      Ah, somehow I just _knew_ Master Snell wouldn’t let this go without reminding religious people of his superiority!

      Question for The Great One: What is evolution going to do over the next 100 years, and how will this start to affect everyone’s life in the next 10 years? How about the next 1,000/100?

      You don’t know, which is just as well because by time it happens, people will have already adapted, or won’t be around to not do so. It’s not like surgery, where poking and prodding around in the living body requires one to actually know something to avoid killing another.

      So I hereby coin a new logical fallacy, called the
      “evolution is vital!!!” fallacy. Fact is, and always will be, failure to grasp the concept will have zero impact on ones life and outcome (for the most part; unless one is a wannbe Dawkins and/or simply must have an anti-religious zeal).

      Anyway, what do you mean religion is dying in the rest of the developed world? The European statists, despite their wet-dreams and demands, do not actually think and speak for everyone they arrogantly claim to think and speak for, be it in their own countries or elsewhere.

    • Martin Snell April 20, 2011, 3:02 pm

      Benjamin,

      Looks like you don’t know too much about evolution either!

      Understanding evolution is vital to understanding how the world works and how we behave and make decisions every day. Because we “evolved” and were not “designed” we have “bugs” in the way we process information and make decisions (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html).

      Marketers understand this and political parties understand this. That is how they can usually “trick” you into buying. They don’t spend hundreds of millions on research for nothing. Being ignorant of this makes one a sheeple.

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 4:12 pm

      Martin,

      “Understanding evolution is vital to understanding how the world works and how we behave and make decisions every day. ”

      So you’re telling that man never survived, rose, and florished during the times prior to Anaximander? And that I won’t live another year as a free and unmanipulated man, with a mind much sharper and vaster than you might give it credit for, unless I go out and attack religion like you and ol’ Dawkins (who himself admited that evolution wasn’t necessary to even biological research) until it is erradicated?

      Forgive me for being a stuborn skeptic, Martin, but that to me is like saying unless we make a hard-lining stand against any and all speech impediments, man will lose the ability to coherently speak and write. That, or syaing God will kill a puppy for every mispronounced/mispelled word. In either case, I’m not the one way out there in the aethers, and for that I am proud to be an “idiot”.

    • Steve April 20, 2011, 4:16 pm

      Martin, I was educated in Zoology, minoring in nuclear chemistry. The evolution debate was “won” because the early opposition denied “change” that every farmer knew existed. Since then there has been trillions, spent by the U.S. government, to prove the primoral goo theory. (no success yet, or stop to the billions wasted each year) Which brings us to the current economic problems which are created by the same goo masters. The statement in regard to the People who all support the Mosaic Law is bigoted inauthentic disingenuine tripe. Makes sense why the current view is anarchy instead of Rule of Law.

    • Martin Snell April 20, 2011, 5:45 pm

      Benjamin … you have to read the quote.

      “Understanding evolution is vital to understanding how the world works and how we behave and make decisions every day. ”

      I did not say you “can not function”. I said to “understand”, you need to understand evolution. Just as it helps if a doctor perform better if he understands the “germ theory”, rather than relying on spells and incantations. The witch doctors stayed around for a while after western medicine arrived, and hey black magic and placebo can sometimes work but if I am really sick I’d rather see someone who has a chance of knowing what is really wrong.

      And before you knock Dawkins understand that he has put out some absolutely fantastic and educational books. But hey if you want to stick to stuff written millennium ago I have absolutely no objection – as long as you don’t try to use the ideas within to run my life.

    • Marilyn April 20, 2011, 6:28 pm

      “Not too long ago I read a research piece which claimed that countries with the worst social safety nets had the highest religious “adherence”, and vice versa. Makes sense.”

      Of course it makes sense. At one time, all the government-run “social safety net” operations right here in the US were handled by religious groups – yeah, church ladies. They they saw needs in a community and stepped up to fill them (housing and feeding the poor, providing homes for orphaned children, offering “relief” to families in hard times), without millions and millions of dollars funneled through bloated, inefficient, and corrupt bureaucracies.

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 6:35 pm

      Martin,

      If evolutionary theory ever advances the understanding of gravity, let me know, okay?

      And for your future reference, don’t confuse me with a wild-haired fanatic. Just because I question the value of “evolution” (religion-bashing) as well as the value of evolution to other, unrelated branches of science and advancement, does not mean I reject it.

      Over and out.

  • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 9:16 am

    After some deliberation, I’ve decided that this new church is a sad, pathetic joke. So it has come to this, then…?

    …It spends money from other productive sources, and produces nothing itself. It’ll only survive to the extent that productive work is done. So like the stores it has replaced, it is just an expression of come-and-go consumerism.

    And because I’ve already made up my mind that that is exactly what it is, this church will not last. More than likely, the church will become a flea market (if anything) after it moves out to the next area where money can still be found (if any). So if it is not already, it’ll become a traveling circus, the message of hope and salvation scrolling across one of them big ol’ screens, with the hawking voice-over of…

    Jesus SAVES at J-Mart! All blessings must go! 40% off EVERYTHING! Going out of business!

    And that, I suspect, is why they didn’t build an impressive new church. Just in town for a while, so I’ll rent that room over there. no need for any fancy cathedrals that speak of long-term staying power.

    Besides, while 10,000 people sounds like a lot of impressive business, I’m sure this is taking from other churches in other areas where similar commerce was already taking place. The local economy will hardly realize an increase. I guess someone forgot to tell the zoning folks that it would only be a big deal if there were in fact 10,000 new faithful… and 10,000 new dwellings, stores, jobs, etc, and, most of all, new MONEY. Without that, this only a consolidation of the same failing elements.

    • Rick Ackerman April 20, 2011, 4:33 pm

      You would need to attend a Sunday service at FCC to comprehend the spiritual fervor that rocks this church every Sunday. You are in an extremely small minority if you believe this is a bad thing.

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 4:57 pm

      Hi Rick,

      Bad thing? I supposed I came across that way, but what I tried to convey was that is no better or worse than the Walmart that once occupied the same building. I know there are differences galore between the two, but quintessentialy, they seem to be the same things…

      Maybe it was not your intent to portray it as such, but the economic revival highlighted in today’s commentary is based in the idea that spending-induced revivals by another name works better; because it is religion, and not Walmart, it should have the desired effect that Walmart sought to acheive.

      But how can it be different, when people are spending money on the same things… gas, shopping, and eating at the local stores and restaurants… as they did when Walmart was there?

      Barring that, they are in fact NOT spending on those things, which then contradicts the success formula on which the church was built (built it, and they will come and spend to create sales tax revenues).

      Seems no matter which way it is sliced, it becomes the same thing, and will go the same way.

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 6:47 pm

      Almost forgot…

      Granted, maybe the people of Boulder, CO would rather have a mega-church rather than another Walmart. But again, they had to have churches before which they attened.

      I think what can be seen of this is a consolidation of what was already there, more visible now what was not so apparent before. And while it surely must be a site to see and experience, it is in all likeliehood not a real, significant economic improvement, but rather what I call an innocent illusion.

      Anyway, I hope you’ve not taken offense to my assessment, Rick. I could’ve worded it all better, and for not initially doing so, I apologize.

    • Robert April 20, 2011, 9:26 pm

      “…It spends money from other productive sources, and produces nothing itself. It’ll only survive to the extent that productive work is done. So like the stores it has replaced, it is just an expression of come-and-go consumerism.”

      Hmmm… well, the point that the church produces nothing is debatable. I don’t attend church regularly at all, but when I do, the spirit of joining my fellows in the celebration of a positive message does tend to improve my often dismal attitude toward people in general… This spirit of comaraderie is well worth the $20 I drop in the collection plate.

      In other words, church gives me a glimmer of hope that not everyone wants to be like Jamie Dimon…

      Also consider that Jesus preached that taxes (collected against the will) are evil, while tithes (based on the spirit of giving) are holy. This is a message that sits well with me fundamentally… of course the end game of either scenario is that money given (or taken) without effort being expended in return only exposes the edifice of human corruption. (ok- there goes my cynicism again)

      Either way- I sincerely hope this church did not borrow the $22M they pumped into the building, because in the 1930’s church attendance spiked with the onset of the Depression, and then cratered later in the decade as people had to choose between the collection plate and the dinner plate and, not being able to tithe, they chose to stop attending so as to avoid the embarrassment or not being able to contribute…

  • buck novak April 20, 2011, 9:04 am

    Hello Rick, in the coming depression religion will make a huge comeback. Jesus saves not spends. People will lose trust in politicians and government and will turn to god for deliverance.

    • Benjamin April 20, 2011, 9:25 am

      Pennies from heaven to spend on prayers made in China (just where does the carpet, pews, and TV screens come from, btw?).

      That is what this PT Barnum spectacle is. Sorry to be so negative, but this isn’t some big, meaningful event. I wish it were, but it isn’t.

    • jeff kahn April 20, 2011, 1:38 pm

      Jesus saves, but Moses invests. (My grandfather’s joke)

    • istt April 20, 2011, 4:45 pm

      Did you mean god or gold?