Only Crazies Believe It’s Over for Gold

It seems like a terrible waste of energy to haul gold down by nearly $200, as has occurred this week, only to run it back up to new all-time highs next week.  Or will it be different this time?  Show of hands: How many of you think the POG will never, ever reach $2000 an ounce?  That’s what we thought.  Still, you can’t blame bulls for grumbling when DaBoyz decide to let the bottom drop out for a couple of days.  And that’s exactly what they did, presumably because they had grown wary of chasing gold who-knows-how-high. And make no mistake, it is bulls who caused this week’s carnage, including the $112 selloff that occurred so swiftly yesterday.  It’s not as though a bunch of sellers panicked and dashed for the exit all at once, trampling the strong hands who have sponsored gold’s rise from $250 an ounce.  No, it was a case of buyers simply going AWOL – for just a short while, we are pretty confident. There was no conspiratorial meeting in a smoke-filled room to arrange all of this, just a tacit consensus that gold was ready for a breather before it launches its inevitable assault on $2000.

Yesterday’s “breather” should have scared the pants off speculators and investors who had grown complacent about the trend. But that is what bull markets are supposed to do:  punish bulls and bears alike. Otherwise, it would be too easy for all of us to get rich.  Thus do we see bursts of virile strength punctuated by devastating swoons. Losses are often recouped so quickly that even hard-core bulls are left in the dust, too bewildered and dazed to climb back aboard.  And yet, more than anyone else, they understand that the monetary forces that have been pushing bullion relentlessly higher for more than a decade have not abated, not one bit. The story is the same:  the central banks of Europe and the U.S. are in a last-ditch campaign to hold deflation at bay.  Sure, they sometimes talk about austerity, and the bailout packages that some of Europe’s basket cases have signed onto are written in blood. But we shouldn’t kid ourselves that any of it will ever be paid back in hard cash.  Nor does anyone actually believe that the 660 billion digital euros pledged against the inevitable crises in Spain and Italy will suffice to cover the approximately 850 billion euros those two countries will need to borrow in a year.

Bet against a renewed burst to $2000 an oz. if you want. As far as we’re concerned, though, it’s only the lunatic fringe that thinks the bull market in bullion is over.  Meanwhile, if you want to closely follow our analysis, which is updated round-the-clock, consider taking a free trial subscription to Rick’s Picks. It will give you access not only to timely analysis and detailed trading recommendations, but to a 24/7 chat room that draws savvy traders from around the world.

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  • stolp August 26, 2011, 3:41 pm

    Hi Marc, yes you are right about some “other options”. The Chinese are hip to this as are people like Jeremy Grantham, who simply refer to “stuff in the ground”, as to where the big money will be made going forward. I just prefer gold because it’s easier to convert, carry, and yes,,, also hide! ;-)) It’s difficult to do that with houses and other large forms of property……I’m not saying utter chaos is likely…..just starting to look more probable…s

  • mava August 25, 2011, 9:33 pm

    The best I can come up with is 5Y and it looks like Rick’s HP is pointing to 2107.7…

  • mava August 25, 2011, 9:28 pm

    Jim N,

    What time frame do you use to see that?
    (I am very much a beginner in Technical Analysis)

  • Jim N August 25, 2011, 8:57 pm

    My PM investment is very long term, but i really enjoy watching the charts. I don’t think i love the stuff, but i have a real chuckle knowing where it is going. One benefit of the HP method is gaining an understanding of how a dip like we just experienced is a new point that launches the PM’s even to a higher price projection. Dips in a bull market can certainly be your friend, for entry and continuation purposes!

  • mava August 25, 2011, 8:01 pm

    …that post where I said “I don’t trust”..?? I just come up on a post detailing Mark Faber’s latest advice “Don’t hold your gold in United States”, where afterward he was asked to explain himself and he said “I don’t trust anyone”.

    http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/marc-faber-gold

    Whoa! Feels nice to be in a good company!

    I got one more on him though, as he still trusts banks outside of US. Who has the most military might today? Anyone??? Right, the US does. So, then who will become the Forth Reich? Do you think that bankers at Channel Islands or Guernsey will stand to death to protect your gold from advancing United States Marines?

  • mava August 25, 2011, 6:57 pm

    C.C.,

    You would think that there needs to be no explanation at that point. Some, however, seem to not quite get it. IMHO, they forget about the rules of the game, of which one says: “Any rule of the game can be changed after all bets are placed, if the dealer wishes so.”

    As a result, they imagine they’d want to own the real estate, or the farm and so on… forgetting that they won’t be able to hide their ownership of the estate or the farm, from the legal violence monopoly that writes the rules, the government.

    It will be a mundane mater or changing the law to extract all or almost all from those who possess any kind of assets, any kind of assets in known possession that is.

    Gold in the bank, gold in the offshore facility, ETF, fiat, real estate, farms, equipment, food, stocks – all the same, all have the same disadvantage in Zimbabwe – all that is in known possession.

    Many here only lived in civilized west, mostly in US. What they do not understand is going to be a tragic lesson for them.

    In a society that is civilized (i.e. respects private property), the guarantee of possession is the stated ownership. The more paper you have confirming your supreme ownership the better.

    The same thing would be a huge mistake in the wild, such as all of the Chaostan (see Richard Maybury for term definition), and the US in a near future and partially today (Obamacare and taxes). All wealth is constantly contested in the wild. So, unless you are the quickest draw in the world, your asset will be taken if you display it. For this reason no animal claims more territory than he is willing to die for any given time.

    Only gold in physical possession can contain your purchasing power undiluted by the government, and yet unseen by anyone else.

    • rmsimc August 25, 2011, 9:25 pm

      this i like… dishing out the good advice for those who wish to learn

  • C.C. August 25, 2011, 5:57 pm

    ‘Love’ is a powerful word – misunderstood and way overused.

    However… I will stand proud and say yea verily: I Love Gold. Even when I purchased in the early 1990’s. Loved it then, love it now. Funny, price – while important of course (I don’t have excess paper to burn), seems to fade when you hold a tube-of-ten in your hand, pop the red top, sneak one out and drop it in your hand – feel the weight; Feel the Reality.

    The Reality that no matter what happens, gold in your hand will Always have value. There really Is something magical about the metal.

    It’s an ‘organic’ thing – a rare metal of value that ties our very existence to the dust of whence we came. Never ending and unaffected by the clever machinations of those who’s short time here seem to be largely dedicated towards nefarious scheming to accumulate and aggregate power to lord over others.

    There is a sense of Freedom when you own/hold Real Physical Gold. It needs no explanation at that point.

    • Benjamin August 25, 2011, 6:50 pm

      “There is a sense of Freedom when you own/hold Real Physical Gold. It needs no explanation at that point.”

      Amen to that.

      I only wish that, like you, I had bought back in the 90s. Or for that matter, held on to all those silver quarters and dimes that used to (surprisingly, in hindsight) frequently turn up in my change jars. Don’t see too many of those, these days. In fact, the last silver coin in my change was a big P war nickle, back in late 08. I don’t suspect I’ll be seeing any more, but I still check my change none the less.

    • mava August 25, 2011, 7:43 pm

      I just found a 1964 quarter in change. Good day!

    • Rick Ackerman August 26, 2011, 3:06 am

      Hard to believe there was a time in this country when people actually paid for mere stuff with St. Gaudens coins. Someone might have predicted back then that every American would be feasting on nightingale tongues by now. Obviously, something went horribly wrong.

    • mava August 26, 2011, 3:57 am

      I thought about that too… Back then, people had on average a few gold coins each. Today, divide all gold owned by a state by the population, you get fractions of ounces, or in some cases – of grams.

      I think it means that while we have had a huge progress, we have been also systematically ripped off, to the net effect that we are now only a fraction as rich as our grandparents.

  • Marc August 25, 2011, 5:55 pm

    stolp, I think you may be overstating things a bit when you write, “The FACT is that gold is going to go up because it is the ONLY place to hide in a completely corrupt and insane financial global maze.” Although I completely agree that gold is going to prove its worth as the ulitmate store of value as the global financial crisis continues to unfold over the next few years, there are certainly possible scenarios in which it does not extend beyond its recent high. If the fiat and fractional reserve ponzi scheme melts down in a true deflationary depression, perhaps we will see a 1:1 Dow to gold ratio of $1,000 each. Gold will have been a good store of value (especially for those buying beneath $1000), but it wouldn’t have gone through the roof under that scenario. Cash would actually be the best asset to have held.

    And while it is easy to believe that the government and Federal Reserve would react to that sitaution with truly hyperinflationary measures, I can imagine that trading cash for real estate, oil, and agriculture at the bottom could pay off even better than gold. Just food for thought.

  • Bam_Man August 25, 2011, 5:44 pm

    CME margin hikes will always drive the price lower – temporarily.

    Clearly the gold price had gotten ahead of itself and was ripe for a correction. Yesterday’s margin hike was the perfect excuse to bring it on.

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 6:36 pm

      At last… a voice of reason rings out from the wilderness…

  • mava August 25, 2011, 5:42 pm

    stolp,

    “The FACT is that gold is going to go up because it is the ONLY place to hide in a completely corrupt and
    insane financial global maze.”

    Precisely. There is no alternative. Everything else requires trust. I don’t trust.

  • mava August 25, 2011, 5:37 pm

    nitram,

    Yeah, that site at the link is funny. That guy needs to read some more of our Robert.

    I just love those charts of future movements. It’s going to crash, it’s too high! Yeah, that what they said when it was $600. Now, even those who predict crash, tread carefully and predict “all the way to $1000”.

    It’s a caged animal, it wants out and it smashes the cage lid with its head. This volatility is a direct result of all the emergency printed money, as that money is employed to hold the gold down.

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 6:34 pm

      Hey, I’d be prefectly cool with 1300 Gold. In fact, at that level I would probably throw out my own primary rule of Gold investing (never buy on margin)…

      Ronald Rosen is another one read if you like a good laugh every now and then. He has painted a near term correction back to the 700 level (probably hence revised since he expected said correction back when Gold was 1300 per ounce)

    • mava August 25, 2011, 7:48 pm

      Oh how thankful I would be if gold really did correct back to $700! I’d convert everything I have, sans the dog, and borrow all that I can.

      Alas, it is not all that likely that the gods will let us have the $700 moment now that we know what is going on.

  • mava August 25, 2011, 5:31 pm

    “I had an Uncle who thought he was a chicken”
    “So did the family tell him he wasn’t?”
    “No, we needed the eggs…”

    JimK, thanks a lot, that’s very funny, and it explains a lot about government and people!

  • nitram August 25, 2011, 5:23 pm
  • Bell_Has_Rung_Today August 25, 2011, 5:16 pm

    They say they don’t ring a bell at the top.

    And yet, on this propietary website, it has rung today;
    for it’s owner has just called ‘crazy’,
    anyone that disagrees, with his own, one-sided, gold- mad, ‘fundamentals’.

    Because, in truth, there are many potential future scenarios, to current world events.

    And, the US dollar continued hyperinflation, is only one of these possible scenarios.

    Yet, this website’s owner, is now so blinded, to no other possible result,
    that he labels you totally insane, if, you do not solely believe, as he does,
    in a continued gold price rise–despite it’s already shrill, hyperbolic, recent huge hike.

    ———————

    Ergo, bell has tolled. Gold crash has begun.
    So, I say, gold ounce at $1000, and very soon.
    For, when hysteria-based commodities deflate,
    (whether ‘precious,’ or not), they deflate–FAST.
    Everybody will want OUT the door, at SAME time.

    • mikeck August 25, 2011, 6:01 pm

      I’ll not be exchanging my metal for FRN regardless of how low the dollar price goes…I am glad to see this pullback. I was beginning to think I would only get one ounce for each $2000 excess FRN that had built up.

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 6:13 pm

      Noriel Roubini, is that you… ?

      At this point I’ll take everyone back to January, 1980, when Gold “deflated” last time after Paul Volcker showed us (as aptly pointed out above) how deep Alice’s rabbit hole really goes….

      Gold dropped from 850 in 1980 to a low of about 250 in 1981. A precipitous fall, to be sure, but 250 was still nearly 9x (that’s 800%) up from it’s starting point of $33

      Now, apply similar reasoning to the $250 low price of 1981 (or 2001), and you get a logical, post-euphoria pullback price somewhere in the $1600 range…. which would indicate that the 1900 and change that was hit last week was all that there was to this bull market.

      I’ll just say that I am willingly taking the seat on the other side of the table against anyone who is placing that bet…

    • Benjamin August 25, 2011, 6:30 pm

      Since ding-a-ling boy hasn’t a real name, I christen him “Major Richard”. Sorry, but I just had to say that!

    • Rick Ackerman August 25, 2011, 6:36 pm

      Duly noted, “Bell.” But I hope the next time you post such bold thoughts, you can summon the courage to tell us your real name.

    • Bell_Has_Rung_Today August 26, 2011, 12:21 am

      Ackerman–
      It is not I, but you, that made a ‘bold thought’ headline today; and it is solely you, that will be hailed as a hero (to your gold-‘crazy’ subscribers), if you are ‘boldly’ correct today.

      However, if you are wrong, and if the fall of the gold price has truly commenced (possibly to unbelievably low levels, for years to come)–then, it is you, that will pay the price, in losing most of your subscribers. So, it is you, Ackerman, that went full out ‘boldly’ today, to the extreme, of the ‘golden’ limb.

      As to myself, I only pointed out, that there is a POSSIBILITY that you might be wrong; because there are other VALID arguments out there (no matter how currently ‘common’sense’ implausible), of how today’s (‘hanging by a mammoth-debt thread’) world economics, might truly play out.

      —————————————

      And as to your ‘summon courage’ comment, to post my ‘true’ name, here is my repost–

      When you can convince (within their pseudonym lifetimes) Voltaire, George Orwell, Joseph Conrad, Moliere, Stendhal, Ayn Rand (and all of the 1950’s blacklisted USA artists), to post their ‘true’ names, then, maybe, you might convince me. But, I doubt it.

      For your own ‘true’ name, might not even be, Ackerman. Nor do I care.
      Because names mean nothing. Nothing at all.
      Since it is only thoughts, that matter.

      —————————–

      The current 10-year gold chart, is looking quite a bit,
      like the tulip mania, mississippi scheme, and south sea bubble charts.
      All that it seems to be missing, is the final, lunatic-frenzied, greedy peak.
      Is it at 1900? 2900? Or circa 3900, alike japan’s ’89 chart?
      I don’t know, how far the current ‘crazed,’ furied gold madness will reach.
      But a bubble is a bubble, and by any other name, would smell bursting sweet.

      &&&&&&&

      Every chat room can use a pompous ass for comic relief. I’m so glad we’ve got you. RA

    • Larry D August 26, 2011, 1:34 am

      Mr_Bell-

      His real name is Rick Farmer. 🙂

    • mava August 26, 2011, 3:18 am

      Why such bitterness? I frequently say : “Only crazy wouldn’t do this or that”. Don’t really mean it.

      It is not like Rick signed you into Social Security scam and then devalued. Those folks really deserve capital punishment.

      It is not like Geithner promising that there is absolutely no chance of US rating downgrade, and then one day later that was exactly what happened. Of course he knew. But he hates the United States and it’s people and wants them to take a loss, that’s why he did it. Need to be hanged.

      This is just the subjective stuff, an opinion, everyone has got one, who’s to say that yours is any crazier than Rick’s?

      I’ve been called crazy so many times that if I cared I’d have no venom left in me for true criminals.

      We don’t really think that if you have a contrary opinion than you’re crazy. May-be just a bit…. just kidding.

    • Robert August 26, 2011, 7:57 pm

      The “Bell-dude (dudette?) ” wrote:

      “and since gold is not yet money and it is still solely a commodity, it will go down swiftly in price”

      – I SOOOOO want to take this point to task…

      But then again, Nah.

      Hey Bell-

      Go read this:

      http://insiderobertsbrain.blogspot.com/2011/08/epiphany-for-me-eureka.html

      Bottom line: Gold IS (IS, IS, IS, IS), and always will be money.

      Policy makers do not determine what money is. Just look at the authoritative, even aggressive governmental attack on the monetary value of Gold being currently waged in Vietnam. The government is losing.

      You have an opinion. I respect that, but I think it is flawed. Only one of us can be proven right, and it will take the fullness of time to determine who that is. I Look forward to the months/years to come…. do you?

  • Muddy Chicken August 25, 2011, 4:43 pm

    Thanks to you guys for the Woody Allen jokes. I needed that. That s**t was funny.

  • Muddy Chicken August 25, 2011, 4:40 pm

    Gold down today 1% and silver up 1%. What’s it mean??

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 6:06 pm

      It means that for today, long Silver and short Gold is a great trade…. 🙂

      It also makes this blueberry muffin I’m eating taste oh so much better….

  • Bradley August 25, 2011, 4:34 pm

    @JimK
    …or the way the last three days in gold prices have made me feel, (like the woman Woody Allen talks with in an art gallery from “Play it Again, Sam”…

    Allen: That’s quite a lovely Jackson Pollock, isn’t it?
    Woman: Yes, it is.
    Allen: What does it say to you?
    Woman: It restates the negativeness of the universe. The hideous lonely emptiness of existence. Nothingness. The predicament of man forced to live in a barren, godless eternity like a tiny flame flickering in an immense void with nothing but waste, horror, and degradation, forming a useless, bleak straitjacket in a black, absurd cosmos.
    Allen: What are you doing Saturday night?
    Woman: Committing suicide.
    Allen: What about Friday night?

  • JimK August 25, 2011, 3:13 pm

    Paul Volcker proved, while Fed Chairman at the height of the crisis in the long wake of Nixon’s closing the gold window, that we live in Wonderland, as in where Alice went –

    “The dollar is now just worthless paper”
    “Maybe so, but it pays 17% interest!”

    It reminds me of the joke about relationships in the Woody Allen movie (Annie Hall?) –

    “I had an Uncle who thought he was a chicken”
    “So did the family tell him he wasn’t?”
    “No, we needed the eggs…”

    Will it happen again?

  • stolp August 25, 2011, 2:50 pm

    Hey Folks,
    Inflation, Deflation, Interest rates up, Interest rates down, Crisis this side of the pond, Crisis that side of the pond, Afghanistan, Iraq, now Libya, 2000, 5000, even Maya’s 60,000. I don’t give a damn about REASONS or Targets….. The FACT is that gold is going to go up because it is the ONLY place to hide in a completely corrupt and
    insane financial global maze. Just look at your charts. You don’t have to be a genius to know which direction the wind is blowing………

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 6:04 pm

      Hehehehe…

      Funny, but the Weathermen of the world would love for you to be wrong about that… 🙂

      Reference yesterday’s “Twitter war” between Noriel Roubini and the many facets of ZeroHedge (aka Tyler Durden).

      Roubini finally threw the “I’ve got a PH.D and you don’t so shut up” card … There is nothing so satisfactory to a debater than to have your opponent excuse themselves from the exchange by running and hiding behind the facade of false authority.

    • mava August 25, 2011, 8:40 pm

      Noriel Roubini. What, that dude again?

      I first heard of him in connection with “the black swan event”. I knew he is an idiot right there and then. The existence of a glorified “end”, that Roubini termed “The Black Swan” was obvious for even my dog, since the day he was born, but it took Roubini his various degrees to comprehend. I wonder how many PH.D.s he needed to understand potty training.

      Second time I heard of Roubini, was when he was pouring all his persuasive might out trying to make people believe that this black swan will require massive government spending. That day I knew he is not simply a fool. I knew then that he is evil fool.

      So, he gave up and threw in his PHD trump card? That would be funny to read. Too bad I wasn’t aware of it.

  • charles August 25, 2011, 2:25 pm

    Ben,
    My rebuke was not intended for you. You clearly are in agreement with Rick’s essay, as am I. Not that I disagree with everyone having an opinion, but I sometimes just get tired of reading the same old dribble from some.
    This morning my excuse is that my dear dog just died and that grieving process has tended to loosen my tongue. Sorry if you were offended.
    I don’t mean to sound fatherly here, but you really should stop smoking!

    • Benjamin August 25, 2011, 2:52 pm

      It’s alright, charles. The smoke-rings are figurative and I was just lightly razzin’ ya anyway. Sorry to hear about the dog, though…

      @nitram

      Hasn’t been lost on me, nitram. Who knows what will happen, though. As to who would buy them if rates shot up, I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t be snatched up. Where else will big money park to wait things out in the event of sudden rise in interest? From there, just beg the Fed for another round of QE. I’m sure the Fed would oblige… after some pain and desperation selling took place (once again seperating the expendable from the too-big-to-fail). Again, it’s all about theft. Ain’t nothing Economics going on!

  • nitram August 25, 2011, 2:19 pm

    What amazes me as I type 10 year treasury reached 2.30% and how there is no discussion that rates in the USA could rise to say even 10% and quickly. 10% would have an impact on the ablility to buy gold and put a lid on the price and support the $. They won’t sell those bonds? Who are they going to sell them too? I say interest are coming higher rates? http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=tbt

    • rmsimc August 25, 2011, 4:43 pm

      Who would buy them???? Surely you understand the carry trade.

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 5:58 pm

      Rising interest rates and yields on US treasuries would destroy the US’ ability to export…

      Interest rates can not rise until real incomes are rising. If interest rates start moving upward ahead of incomes, then the US economy is burnt toast as the Treasury would have no choice but to default on its obligations, and your worst Mad-Max fears would be realized…

      There is a point on the yield curve where every dollar owed by the US government to pay maturing Treasuries will require another full dollar in new issuance. With 100+ Trillion in unfunded liabilities, that day will arrive within the lifetime of anyone currently in their early 40’s…

      Now, that is not to say that I believe rates are not going up over the longer (5+years) term- I do believe that, but I think nominal (dollar denominated) incomes will be rising aggressively, as will consumer prices before the interest rate genie is let out of the bottle.

      Face it, everyone. whether you like it or not, you ARE a frog, and they ARE trying to boil you slowly enough that you won’t notice…

  • charles August 25, 2011, 1:13 pm

    I’m constantly amused by how many “experts” there are in this forum. So many scholarly proclamations based on what they’ve read another “expert” has written. ( probably cut and pasted).
    I don’t give much credence to anyone’s opinion here but Rick Ackerman’s. I understand that he’s pretty damn well right most of the time. The rest of you are just blowing smoke and stoking your own egos. That’s been proven time and again. Anyone who says “I’m right and I know it!” deserves no attention. Who the hell cares??? Thanks, but no thanks!

    • Benjamin August 25, 2011, 1:57 pm

      Charles, I’m choking on my smoke-rings in amusement! And because I am, I have to know… Why complain about your strange habit of reading what you know you don’t like to read?

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 5:26 pm

      Gee Charles….

      Maybe you should save the time wasted denigrating everyone else and just go rub the belly of your little Rick Ackerman statue…

      &&&&&

      Ahhh, I’ve been upgraded! Around the house, there is only the Rick Ackerman bobble-head. RA

    • Jim N August 25, 2011, 8:38 pm

      Can i buy an RA bobblehead doll?

    • jp August 26, 2011, 1:00 am

      you got your own bobblehead?!
      you, sir, have ARRIVED!!!!

  • mava August 25, 2011, 6:47 am

    I have come to conclusion that the case needs to be made and always pointed out that gold does have an intrinsic value.

    Wikipedia says: “An intrinsic property is an essential or inherent property of a system or of a material itself or within. It is independent of how much of the material is present and is independent of the form the material, e.g., one large piece or a collection of smaller pieces. Intrinsic properties are dependent mainly on the chemical composition or structure of the material.

    A property that is not essential or inherent is called an extrinsic property. For example, mass is a physical intrinsic property of any physical object, whereas weight is an extrinsic property that varies depending on the strength of the gravitational field in which the respective object is placed.

    For ex. in biology, intrinsic effects originate from inside an organism or cell, such as an autoimmune disease or intrinsic immunity.”

    OK? So, gold does have an intrinsic value, and it is completely within the definition of the term. It’s value is in an unique physical properties, among which widely quoted ones: uniformity, malleability, scarcity, etc.
    There is one more: Gold worth much, much less than is required to produce it. Combined with scarcity this means that the governments cannot profitably make gold. This is gold’s intrinsic value.

    In a honest system, where governments are held to Jeffersonian standard of respect to private property, the application of gold intrinsic value would be irrelevant.

    However, for as long as world governments are made of thieves, the application of gold intrinsic value is as an insurance that the purchasing power presented by gold is not diluted by inflation. It thus becomes extrinsic, i.e. having place only as long as thieves get elected or self-appointed. It seems to me, this this was, is, and forever be the case.

    Paper money, on the other hand, have only extrinsic value. This value is attached to it by either the willingness of the masses to be robbed, or their ignorance of the robbery, and thus their use of the fiat, conditioned even more basically on the continuation of the government running the scam. NO INTRINSIC VALUE in paper money whatsoever.

    For how much longer this needs to be pointed out and stressed, I don’t know, but it seems that too many are all too willing to repeat red propaganda of Krugman et.al. , and not willing so simply examine the case.

    My personal target for gold is USD 60,000, and I said it before Casey.

  • gary leibowitz August 25, 2011, 4:49 am

    To believe in Gold’s staying power you would need further devaluation in the dollar, inflation, and to abandon all paper currencies both here and abroad.

    What if the US dollar strengthens against the EU for example. What if we have world deflation.

    Since I am betting on massive deflation it wouldn’t make sense to bet on Gold. While it can do relatively well in that environment it will struggle to maintain these levels.

    Falling in love with Gold is a mistake. Not anticipating all scenarios, even ones where Gold will fall hard is also a mistake. If you think inflation and a weaker dollar is coming than your odds of making money are high. If the dollar holds up against the other major currencies than those odds fall rahter quickly.

    Finally if you believe all currencies will be shunned in place of Gold than you must anticipate a doomsday event. I’ll stick to the historic odds.

    Inflationists out there would have to ignore the last 2 plus years of consumers and lending institutions inability to deleverage their debt. Having both in such bad shape bodes well for deflation and hard cash.

    Finally how do you suppose the Fed change this path we are on. Another round of QE3,4 or 5. More politically indigestible government debt?

    • Benjamin August 25, 2011, 7:09 am

      “Falling in love with Gold is a mistake.”

      I don’t love Gold. More like reverence for it’s many, mostly unspoken or unrealized qualities. I will however agree that one shouldn’t fall in love with the gold price or, more to the point, the gold price trend. Rightly or wrongly, I no longer see that money can go wherever it pleases. That perception, if real, can allow the gold price to be killed at the leisure of the last-resort-lenders. More importantly, they can make availability disappear. For cash paper, anyway. Which brings me to the main point…

      Forget about gold and silver prices. They don’t matter nearly as much as a distorted and lively g/s ratio. Most importantly, the distorted gyrations are not dependent on inflation or “deflation”. They depend on dishonesty…

      “If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.” — Thomas Jefferson

      This is all about accquistion via theft. Real economics does not even figure into it. So, whether you choose to marry gold or not, realize one thing… You’re being too rational about this. And that, unfortunately, is a good way to get blind-sided and killed in this quite serious game.

    • chris c August 25, 2011, 3:06 pm

      Hi Gary,
      I agree we are going to have massive deflation so what will the US financial situation look like and what will be the political response.

      As private debt is defaulted and Government revenues dwindle the US debt will skyrocket. Will the US default?

      Will the US go on an austerity program cutting off SS recipients, refuse to bail out public and private pensions? Cut and burn government spending?

      I don’t think that is politically acceptable. So what is a solution? Debt is deflating because there is not enough capital to service that debt or to purchase the discounted assets. One way to increase capital is to simply re-price gold at a level to where it provides enough capital to do the job. Not only will that provide capital with the stroke of a pen but it will instantly improve the balance sheet of many countries.

      Accept payment in gold for distressed assets on banks balance sheets. That would put property back into productive uses and give a boost to local and state tax revenues.

      This would be politically acceptable. It is the reason I will hold on to gold during the upcoming deflation. I see 1100 about as low as it will go though.

    • fallingman August 25, 2011, 4:53 pm

      Clownbucks or gold…hmmmm. There’s a tough choice. Don’t reason too hard Gare, it’ll only overheat your brain. Think uptrend with mania to come.

      The entire monetary system of the world is gonna go poof. And then it’ll be reset. Chaos will ensue and then order will be restored. That’s my bet. This isn’t something new in history. It isn’t doomsday. It’s just a dramatic event…from our perspective at least. From a historical perspective, it’s commonplace. We just haven’t had the displeasure of enduring a currency blowup in the F.U.S.A in our lifetimes, so it seems unimaginable.

      “Gold’s staying power”…that’s funny. I know you mean in the relatively short term, but it’s still funny. Thousands of years as money has persuaded me that it has all the staying power it needs.

      And THAT would be the point of all the buying.

      Personally, I’m in from the low $300’s and I shorted the clownie in Feb of 02 and rode that piece of trash down for 3 years. No complaints.

      Ready to do it again should it “strengthen against the Euro” or any of the other stumbling drunks in the paper currency universe.

    • Robert August 25, 2011, 5:44 pm

      “To believe in Gold’s staying power you would need further devaluation in the dollar, inflation, and to abandon all paper currencies both here and abroad.”

      – That is a common misconception, Gary. Does any further increase in the DJIA require dollar depreciation as well? Open interest in Dow futures exceed Gold’s by a factor of about 100.

      “What if the US dollar strengthens against the EU for example. What if we have world deflation. ”

      What if we do? During real deflation, the value of real money increases, and the burden of debt increases…

      So, you tell me, what financial instrument has the longest proven history as the ultimate extinguisher of debt?

      “Since I am betting on massive deflation it wouldn’t make sense to bet on Gold. While it can do relatively well in that environment it will struggle to maintain these levels.”

      – So? If we enter a massive deflation it won’t NEED to maintain these levels. In a deflation, he who loses the least, wins.

      Also, you make it sound as if a massive deflation would/could somehow prevent the world from entering a fiat currency crisis… If that is your premise, then I would love to hear your expanding reasoning on the topic.

      “Falling in love with Gold is a mistake. Not anticipating all scenarios, even ones where Gold will fall hard is also a mistake. If you think inflation and a weaker dollar is coming than your odds of making money are high. If the dollar holds up against the other major currencies than those odds fall rahter quickly.”

      Hmmm- I’d suggest that failing to respect Gold’s power over the human psyche might be a bigger mistake. I don’t “love” Gold, I only respect its permanence, and its value as seemingly immutable collateral.
      Also, what if the dollar continues to hold up (or even increase) against other currencies, yet the Gold price continues rising?

      “Finally if you believe all currencies will be shunned in place of Gold than you must anticipate a doomsday event. I’ll stick to the historic odds. ”

      Really? was the the period immediatley following the ratification of the Constitution a doomsday period? Was the Renaissance a doomsday period? During both periods, societal debts did not exist, and Gold was the measure of a person’s wealth and savings.

      “Inflationists out there would have to ignore the last 2 plus years of consumers and lending institutions inability to deleverage their debt. Having both in such bad shape bodes well for deflation and hard cash. ”

      – Deflationists would have to ignore the rising Gold Price, and the falling dollar index, AND the drastically rising money supply over the same time period.

      “Finally how do you suppose the Fed change this path we are on. Another round of QE3,4 or 5. More politically indigestible government debt?”

      Any, or none, of the above are necessary for Gold to continue to re-assert it’s place atop the monetary throne.

      Remember, Gary- the Renaissance took Europe by surprise…. and it began just as everyone began to truly believe that the dark ages were the end times for humanity.

    • Rick Ackerman August 25, 2011, 6:20 pm

      Always nice to find insightful discussion of deflation here, especially since I never actually switched sides (as Gary North had it). My gut feeling is that a hyperinflation along the lines that Schiff has described will briefly disrupt a much larger and longer-lasting run of deflation. No one can say for sure, though, since the interplay of time and politics — both wholly unpredictable — will be crucial variables. Meanwhile, it seems plausible that gold will continue to rise until the day financial catastrophe renders the population of the world — including bullion hoarders — flat broke. Even if gold were to crash then, there’s no reason to think bullion would not hold considerable purchasing power relative to all other asset classes. Also, predictions of $50,000/oz could briefly come true when the inevitable run on the banks occurs. This depends on whether the various commodity and equity exchanges will enforce the contractual obligations of those who are short paper gold. Since that would be tantamount to destroying J.P. Morgan, Goldman et al., I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    • Benjamin August 25, 2011, 7:02 pm

      Wow, did this thread explode into deep discussion or what?

      @Robert: I don’t think on my best day I could’ve made so many valid points. A+!

      @Rick: Gary North? A deflationist now?! I must be in the Twilight Zone…

  • FranSix August 25, 2011, 4:10 am

    Like the action in gold. Ross Clark has to be pretty smug that he called this correction, almost to the day.

    Gold prices have broken out over a very long term uptrend, established in 1999 on the monthly log-scale chart.

    http://ow.ly/6c9OE

    You would have to wait until Jackson Hole is over, of course.

    • Avocado August 25, 2011, 12:19 pm

      Can you publish a log scale version as well?

      Thanks,

      Andy

    • Rich August 25, 2011, 3:06 pm

      That gold gap @ 1675 is suggestive…

    • Rick Ackerman August 25, 2011, 6:10 pm

      Ross Clark gets it exactly right so much of the time that he is undoubtedly above smugness.