Ricks Picks header image

At CMRE Dinner, Talk of a Looming Disaster


I’m in Gotham (photo below) for the annual spring dinner of the CMRE, the Committee for Monetary Research and Education.  The members come mostly from the financial community, although they are hardly what one would call Wall Street types.  More like libertarian firebrands, deeply committed to sound money, truth and accuracy in journalism, free enterprise and muscular capitalism.  Herewith, as promised, some  highlights from the CMRE’s annual spring dinner, held recently at the Union League Club:

Edwin Vieira Jr.:  Google this guy if you don’t know who he is.  A renowned Constitutional lawyer with a gift for oratory, he brings crowds to their feet. Economically and politically speaking, says Vieira, the stage has been set for a “catastrophic” event. The Fed, meanwhile, has usurped a degree of power that is unknown to America’s system of laws. But take heart, all ye who think a gold standard has only a remote chance of being re-instituted. In fact, says Vieira, under the provisions of Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution, a growing number of U.S. states are opening the door to bullion as payment for private transactions.  On the (very) scary side, Vieira averred that an American firm has been awarded a contract by Homeland Security to provide 750 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow-point ammunition to the U.S. Army. This type of bullet is designed for just one purpose, warns Vieira: killing civilians.

Paul Brodksy: a money manager with QB Asset Management, he says a U.S. hyperinflation would require only an edict from the Fed stating that, effective immediately, the new price of an ounce of gold will be $10,000. Devaluation is the only way out for an America drowning in debt, Brodsky asserts.  And don’t think it would hurt the banks; they would love it, he says, for they care not what the value of the dollar is or about the level of real interest rates, only about the spread between their own borrowing costs and what they charge customers. Devaluation in this way would play havoc with our trading partners in Europe in Asia, says Brodsky, but that would be their problem.

Francine McKenna: a former auditor with Price Waterhouse turned muckraker/blogger, she has become a force for truth in the otherwise pathetic world of journalism. McKenna has appeared many times on Max Keiser’s show and refers sarcastically to the Wall Street Journal as “that prestigious media organization.”  She notes that Big Money is quietly shifting toward Romney, presumably because they sense Obama’s ship is sinking. Concerning the financial Day of Reckoning that we all know is coming: “There is no protecting your money or your gold. In the end, there is only you.”

Jim Sinclair: a guru known for putting his money where his mouth is, mainly in gold assets, he sees the U.S. as having entered the “darkest period in financial history.” Trust and truth have vanished from the financial world, he says, making it impossible to determine whether J.P. Morgan’s recent trading loss will turn out to have been $2 billion, $10 billion, or perhaps even more.  Regarding the coming cataclysm, we are “a lot closer to seeing things take their course” than most people might imagine, warns Sinclair.

Bob Hoye:  CMRE’s official historian, Bob notes that Homestake Mining paid a generous dividend during the Great Depression as the company’s shares rose steeply in value. He sees gold stocks and precious metals in a final shakeout as the broad averages get slammed over the next several months. Thereafter, look for bullion to emerge from its wallow to become the premier investment asset during hard times. Over lunch at the Second Avenue Deli, Bob waxed enthusiastic about one gold stock in particular: Almaden Minerals Ltd. [AAU].

Prince Michael of Liechtenstein: Although we usually lump Europe’s bumbling, socialistic planners together in one sorry lot, Liechtenstein’s budget is actually in balance thanks to the pro-growth, prudent stewardship of His Highness, Prince Michael. Would that Belgium followed the same principles! It was a big mistake, he said, to allow all nations belonging to the EU to borrow at the same low rates.

Frederick Sheehan:  Author of Panderer to Power: How Did We Get Here, readers can probably figure out for themselves which egregious Fed chairman the title refers to (hint: he was, in Sheehan’s words, “the messiah of easy money”).  Sheehan was the night’s wittiest speaker, and his book, which I have not yet read, is filled with amusing anecdotes about those who run/ruin our economic lives. He noted that Prof. Paul Samuelson, reading Bernanke’s Princeton PhD thesis, must have thought, “What an apple-polisher.” Some feared Bernanke was so wedded to his mathematical models, said Sheehan, that he would refuse to forecast an economic downtrend. This fear was of course borne out by events. Of a recent Greenspan interview on network television, Sheehan wondered aloud, “Who would still interview him?”  Rather than accepting blame for the financial catastrophe that his tenure at the Fed set in motion, Greenspan has instead blamed Americans, who, he said, chose a “welfare state” over the discipline of gold.

William J. Bergman:  As an employee at the Chicago Fed years ago, Bergman prepared reports on how the economy had performed in the previous six weeks. You can forget about predicting what the economy will do in the months and years ahead, says Bergman, author of Money and Power: The Chicken or the Egg. “A lot of us had trouble figuring out what had happened last month.”

Bill Rochelle: an expert on bankruptcy law, Rochelle aserted that, contrary to its public pronouncements, M.F. Global knows where “every farthing” of the supposedly missing $900 million is. Why don’t they tell us, then?  According to Rochelle, it would require an admission that the money will never be recovered – that it went to quell margins calls from J.P. Morgan, Citi et al. And don’t expect any prosecutions either. The perps have shielded themselves from legal jeopardy by getting their lackeys in Congress to pass the “safe harbor” statute. Nevertheless, said Rochelle, we can expect the can of worms from this scandal to explode around election time.

Please do not ask trading questions!

  • Bradley May 23, 2012, 4:23 am

    Perhaps a little comedic distraction would be in order. I read Rick’s post about being in NYC and some deep, dark memory came to the surface.

    Rick, could you please remind us about a bet I seem to remember involving GS stock, and you dancing naked in Times Square?

    Have I got that backwards and upside down?

    Has that bet been resolved one way or the other?

  • Steve May 22, 2012, 9:24 pm

    In case you missed it above Seawolf. 2 mags of 9mm hydroshock, 3-mags of HVHPBT Match 308 with 1/4 min accuracy.

    I’ve been there.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 9:41 pm

      And what is that supposed to prove? So you’ve got 2 guns and you can fire them accurately.
      The sun is still shinning, the grass is growing, and the birds are still chirping. No sign of armageddon yet. And Honey Badger don’t give a sh*t.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 10:37 pm

      More than that Seawolf. The rain will still come down, the sun will come up, the dew will still form on the grass, and the water will run to the sea. In the foggy mist the wind will still swirl. It will get cold, and it will get warm and the seasons will still change. The hawk will still strike, and the skunk will still squirt. Vieria will still kick ass with facts, statistics, and a history of winning 3 cases in the supreme court.

      I’m very pleased that seawolf exists.

      You ?

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 11:40 pm

      Pleased to meet you Steve.
      I read an excerpt from “The Framers”. It was about free speech in a republic. It illustrated very well how far the current crop of politicians have deviated from the thought of the framers. However, we have to live with what we’ve got.
      Now, as to Mr . Vieria, if he in fact said what Rick avers that he said then he did not do due diligence fact checking. I was not challenging him, just his supposed statement. I think that I have shown that these supposedly nefarious ammo were nothing more than business as usual for a government agency. we do not know how many rounds actually get purchased. We only know how may be purchased under the terms of the contract.
      I will challenge anyone to produce facts to back up their assertions, no matter how many phd’s they have after their name. To me phd can also mean piled higher and deeper.

    • Steve May 23, 2012, 1:18 am

      In this case Mr. Vieira is not your piled on pile statement. I suggest you read his works and see what he has done. When I speak of the Framers I infer to read the Federalist and Anti-federalist Papers. Once again, based in what Mr. Vieira has accomplished I would take is word over any site, or government site.

      In regard to admissible fact. Unless one has complete access to the original signed documents one has nothing.

      Please try to understand the difference between a hu’man corporate government, or de Facto, “in fact” and de Jure, or the inferior “by Right” government below Man. Current government is corporate contract and agreement thereto as the creator of hu’mans. The de Jure offices await seawolf to awake and act to secure security by acting as a Man.

  • F. Beard May 22, 2012, 8:11 pm

    Devaluation is the only way out for an America drowning in debt, Brodsky asserts.

    No it isn’t!

    1) Forbid the banks from any further counterfeiting – so-called “credit creation”. This would be massivily deflationary by itself as existing credit debt is paid off with no new credit to replace it.

    2) Distribute new, full legal tender fiat (US Notes) to the entire population equally, including non-debtors, at a rate metered to just replace the credit paid off in 1) till ALL credit debt to the banks is paid off.

    Since the total money supply (bank reserves + credit) would not change (merely the composition of it till all credit was eliminated) then neither price deflation nor price infaltion should be expected.

    Professor Steve Keen suggests something similiar under “A Modern Jubilee” at http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/manifesto/

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 9:20 pm

      What is all of this really about ? Allodialism has given way to Fee and a new feudal system. Men have given way to hu’man corporations subject to excise taxes. Use of private script, under Roman Civil Law, means one is in trust and in debt. Debtor cannot raise constitutional question against beneficator while in receipt of benefit from benefactor, Ashwander Doctrine on beneficial use/taking United States Supreme Court.


      The Jubilee returns the slave to the land to slave for the master/creator the congress. A Golden Jubliee returns the Endowment of the Covenant of Abraham to the tribes who congress believes is THEM.

      Where finds one Allodial, Allodium, Allodialist in Jubilee?

      The task master will not allow Allodialism as it establishes crimes against Mankind in the hearts, hands, and minds of the task masters.

      Does anyone here really believe that the Master of Tasks are going to stop the shearing voluntarily – speaking of bankers who use debt to enslave?

    • F. Beard May 23, 2012, 12:18 am

      Debtor cannot raise constitutional question against beneficator while in receipt of benefit from benefactor,

      A universal bailout would allow the debts to be paid – with brand new, full legal tender fiat.

    • Steve May 23, 2012, 1:20 am

      same problem – fiat is fraud on the several States union and will lead to the same corrupted end. The user will still be a tenant in fee instead of a Free Man.

    • F. Beard May 23, 2012, 2:06 am

      fiat is fraud on the several States union

      It is normally true that fiat (the ONLY ethical money form for government debts – cf: Matthew 22:16-22) should only be legal tender for government debts. However, the population was driven into debt slavery under a full legal tender fiat regime so it is appropiate that they be freed with full legal tender fiat.

      After the bailout period then fiat should revert to legal tender for government debts only. Then you could use shiny metals or whatever else you desired to use as money besides fiat but for private debts only.

    • F. Beard May 23, 2012, 2:17 am

      Also, you neglect that the counterfeiting cartel has cheated non-debtors too. A conventional debt jubilee would do nothing for non-debtors directly though I would argue that it is better that some get justice than none.

  • gary leibowitz May 22, 2012, 5:43 pm

    One other point. What happened in the 30’s that would make you believe “this time is different”. I don’t recall historical footage on government forces killing citizens in mass.

    There was no “safety net” from governments on you bank deposits or social welfare. I would have suspected that if violence was going to happen it would have been demonstrated in the last great depression.

    • Benjamin May 22, 2012, 7:24 pm

      We’re not in Mayberry anymore, Toto.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 9:09 pm

      Gary, it is what happened in 1897 to Hawaii, 1864-76 to the Plains People, 1830 geocide of the Mandan and many other Real People who got in the way of the Banks, 1945 civilian attack by nuclear weapons taking out 100’s of thousands. Should I go on to anyone who challeges U.S. commerce in Libya, Iraq, or any other place. How about the abuses of Nash’s Theory to take your Liberty and give you a FEE ? Who cares how many collaterals are killed in your name and by your hand because “Bad things happen when good Men refuse to act”. Much easier to say one has taken out a target than to say one has tortured and murdered a child named Fred, and a dad named Henry Blackfeet. The stains are great and many. But, not to worry the democracy hasn’t killed anyone tomorrow.

    • gary leibowitz May 22, 2012, 9:36 pm

      Not one example you expressed has to do with attacking their own people.

      It is very easy to demonize soemeone else and allow these atrocities to happen, less so when it involves ourselves.

      Why hasn’t it happened in the 30’s? Surely things were as bad as it gets.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 11:16 pm

      The big distinction in the 30’s was crowding and KNOWLEDGE. Everyone knew what to do when the power went off. Unemployement was 25% in the 30’s and it is 22% today. 1000’s of people lived spread out on the land and did not go hungry. Only those in the city needed the soup kitchen. The gov continues to try to bunch people into crowding in the city and burbs today.

      No one knows what to do when the power goes off today.

      How about the Civil War ? Or, correctly The War of Northern Aggression to establish a new feudal monarchy under military control? Now look at that flag with the Eagle and Cord and Silks real close before reading 4 USC 1.

      Understand the FEE STATE.

      What purpose ?

      Or, the Reconstruction Acts that presently keep every white man in slavery, and deny the several States union for a federal union of states to quote Sandra Day O’Conner.

      How about the constant war against those who believe different from mobocracy. Mostly its economic war, but from time to time a sniper or a can of fuel is set on fire after dousing a building. Sometimes the THEY surround a group who is different after persecution does not work – see; Janet Reno who said the people are inferior to a highly limited contract.

      Every kid knew how a cow bred and how a plant grew and did it in 1930. Today every kid can sit on a TV and play with an iPhone. As far as knowing what to do if the power went off the kids will call the cops because the food in the freezer rotted, after it is rotten. And, the kids parents are of no help because they don’t know what to do and did not teach how to be prepared to keep the mystical wolf away.

      How many on this forum know what to do if the power goes off for 40 days? Just keep adding the “what to do’s” and compare the Great Depression to the Great Possibility. GD knew what to do “what if” and GP hasn’t a clue. GP will get ugly in just a few days.

      Hope for the best be prepared for the worst.

      I know what THEY will do, do you ?

      Pre-30’s we were a Nation. Today we are a mixed country. The distinction between the two will bring the land to a fractional war against anything different based in prejudicial lines that cannot be erased by good feelings from a social teacher when food and water become short.

      But, don’t worry – trust in unproven theories. It must surely be an error to be prepared based in the words against words written by others today.

  • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 5:41 pm

    Oh my goodness Steve did I just describe you? Do you have houseful of weapons and stored against the day that the enemies only you can detect finally attack you.

    • Benjamin May 22, 2012, 7:00 pm

      Yeah, that’s it. Call him a crazy. But I do not know of any crazies who, to name one thing, win prestigeous art awards.

      Anyway, Steve’s running circles around the lying eyes. Such fun!

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 7:09 pm

      Even crazies an win art awards. It may even be a prerequisite.

    • Benjamin May 22, 2012, 7:35 pm

      Yeah, crazy like a fox, as the saying goes!

      I wonder why it doesn’t say “like a seawolf”, though… 🙂

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 8:25 pm

      That’s because this seawolf is a mythical creature just like policemen and governments.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 8:58 pm

      Seawolf. I was trained to have one 9mm, and one 308 with only the ammo I can carry while running. My training taught me to take everything else from YOU with patience and knowledge.

  • gary leibowitz May 22, 2012, 5:38 pm

    I don’t want to change anyone. Just want logic and common sense to be the forefront of any discussion.

    If I talk about men from outer space all day that doesn’t exactly give credence to them being real.

    As for why the money Uncle Ben keeps throwing at us is not causing inflation, most that answered are correct. It isn’t getting into the system. Banks are hording it.

    Not for long though. Looks like spending and borrowing on the rise. The good old days seem to be back, at least for now. If this continues we will see inflation before the deep deflation from debt implosion.

    China can and will heat up their economy. Lets see just how long this stage of the game lasts. I suspect a good 9 to 12 months from here.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 6:04 pm

      Spending and borrowing may be on the rise now, but can it be maintained into the election season without QE3? Then Uncle Ben has to be worried – will QE3 work or will it be a dud? How much stock market pain can be tolerated before the urge to throw money at it becomes intolerable. The goal is to have enough “feel good” in the general population to get the incumbent reelected. That will require a little inflation to keep the spending and borrowing going. Can he do it?

  • Rich May 22, 2012, 5:00 pm

    177 cities in 30 days:

    Our American Fact-Finding Whistle Stop Tour Report:


  • gary leibowitz May 22, 2012, 3:54 pm

    I can’t believe this article is getting such a response.
    Everyone is so easy to accept the absolute worse case scenario. How do you explain the 2009 purchase? Anyone?

    To listen to everyone here over the last 3 years you would think we were already in the pits of hell. You have ignored the last 3 years as if the mistake was everyone elses. Obviously wrong but refuse to acknowledge it. Instead you feed on each other to prop up your doomesday arguments.

    Latest news. The EU and China will be ramping up economic stimulus. That should be good news for possible inflationists and gold. Looks like Germany flinched. The strict austerity measures will be delayed.
    This does mean the end is not as close as most would like to believe.

    I am expecting a huge move soon, at the outside by July. What ever happened to the trash talk about the trashed dollar? Guess the Uncle Ben Money Machine hasn’t resulted in inflation. If the money actually went into the economy by now we should have seen hyper-inflation. Does anyone have a suggestion why that didn’t happen?

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 4:26 pm

      How about this as an explanation as to why Uncle Ben’s Money Machine is not creating the desired inflation. The fed cannot do this by itself, they need to funnel the money through the banking system but the banks balance sheets are deteriorating almost as fast as Ben can pour money into them. Even if they have some money left over where can they find enough qualified borrowers to lend it to such that sufficient inflation can be created? The money has to get into the general economy to create inflation and that does not seem to be happening.
      I routinely get offers from credit card issuers to borrow at 0% with a small 2 or 3% free for a year or more.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 4:29 pm

      Please excuse the typo. That last sentence should read 2 0r 3% fee for a year or more.

    • Bradley May 22, 2012, 4:56 pm

      Jees, Gary, you’re such a killjoy…

      I’d recommend spending more time researching weapons to defend yourself against the gub-mint…


    • Steve May 22, 2012, 5:19 pm

      Good shot Gary. The debt of F.D.R. and the New Deal is not paid. A Man owned land in Allodium 100 years ago, and now only holds a Fee Simple as Tenant in Fee and somehow Gary finds this to be great. What it all means to me is that Gary is happy that he can trade his way to a superior position and doesn’t give a rats – – – for Liberty. Seems it is better to be the task master than do something that requires a price to be paid for the betterment of each individual as the de Jure State. I don’t want to live like you Gary, and I don’t want you telling me that I must live that way, which is what I see in the Liberal/mobocracy theory. Live as you will Gary in Peace. Quit compelling others to be just like you. Problem is that democracy demands that the new monarchy caste royal court of the district of Columbia compel by economic force, and if that does not work – then force of arms.

      Easy friend – the sucking sound of deflation and bad debt has been a nearly level field in the explosion of fiat pumping – except for the accounting debt on the black books and the loss of Liberty in Allodium in favor of an easy ride in Fee, Fife, Feod, Feudal, Tenant in Fee, Debtor in Possession, Peon, Surf, Slave. Some DNA likes to be left alone. Some DNA likes to be taken care of. Some DNA must control others.

      Market going to pop up – great – a bigger tally against Allodial freedom – more debt on the books, and higher tax rates just to equal 500 bucks a month in 1971. Some call it inflation, or the devaluation of the abililty to Extinguish Debt @ 500 Dollars; in exchange for the discharge @ 6990 fraud notes a month. The tithe was about 5% on the 500 and is now 50% on the 6.9k a month. It is called infringement.

      I was in Liberty as an allodialist, and now I slave to pay the tithe as a debtor in possession.

      Gary, is absolutely correct in theory to the democracy works that seeks to cookie cut all Natural Born things into a hu’government, a hu’man, all hu’man corporations.

      Is the word Dollar legislatively defined, or is this a Sinapore Dollar, or Canada Dollar ? Because the word dollar on these several States is specifically defined by the legislative branch and neither the federal reserve nor I will call fiat notes Dollars for the several States – because said notes have no value at Article I, sec. 8, cls. 5 – they are a simple tally to say how much debt is held. Take all of the notes in existence and the tally against Allodialism cannot be paid. And yet; a single Dollar has more value that every federal reserve note ever printed.

      What is missed is that Federal Reserve Notes cannot be used on one of the several States, or by a Free Man. What does that tell you ? Is it understood that use of fiat brings admission of private contract to legislative creations of a hu’man corporation operating under territorial Law. When one is on the git, that does not matter I guess.

      A user of fiat will never be able to raise a constitutional question because he is in receipt of a benefit of this corporation state. “Beneficiary cannot raise constitutional question against benefactor while in receipt of benefit from benefactor” Ashwander v. Tenn. Vly. Authority, U.S. supreme Court. The user will necessarily find relief from morality via the 14th amendment and Roman Civil contract Law. If you do not care about that Gary it is quite fine with me. Just quit trying to make my DNA like yours by economic force which always leads to force of arms.

      As to firearms and projectile energy as an example of economic theory – one must understand expended energy upon/after entry. A 22 mag rimfire HV HP will enter and then leave a huge exit wound using hollow point transfer energy to create a massive wound canal. A fmj (full metal jacket) will enter and exit with nearly the same wound size. The wound canal is very narrow and projectile energy leaves with the exit wound. What matters is what amount of projectile energy is left in the wound canal. A 22 mag hollow point is more effective than a fmj solid round. So, apples ain’t oranges and I can take a 9mm round specially prepared and outdo any 45 ACP FMJ ever made. My point on ammo is the same point on just about everything. Most is just a bunch of theory with no basis in reality because I’ll take a 22 mag rim fire hollow point for wound canal over a 45 ACP FMJ any day of the week. History tells me that I may even be able to absorb 4 + 45 ACP FMJ because of my body mass. The wound canal from 4 or 5 slow moving 45 ACP FMJ will not equal the wound canal from one 22 cal. HP mag rimfire. Juice up the 45 ACP FMJ and it will exit with nearly as much energy as it entered. It will create a larger diameter wound canal than a normal 45 ACP FMJ, but; would be unlikely to equal a 22 mag. HP wound canal. Most likely the 22 will not exit and one will have a mini mushroom cloud wound of rotting flesh destruction with 55 grains of copper and lead at the top. The 45 ACP will leave a pencil hole that expands sligtly and then the FMJ will leave a repairable exit hole.

      All things equal – take the 45 ACP FMJ over any other FMJ.

      Inequality says – I’ll take a 41/44 mag HP HV as a true 1 hit disabler. In the hands of another it is better to have a 22 hit its target than to spray 44 mag HP HV everywhere. A LV short 22 cal. on the right edge of the right eyebrow crossing right to left and then spining around inside the skull is far better than a 40 cal HP HV whizzing through the air.

      Who cares what is bring thrown at you. Don’t get hit. And that is the point Gary – don’t get hit by exchanging Liberty for security in a Fee that can never be repaid so that one can not raise a question superior to contract law in a legislative contract for hu’man corporations. Maybe not me, but; what of the children and grandchildren?

      It is the same with economic garbage theory. Acting in a way that takes Allodialism and exchanges that for a Fee with no hope of extinguishment because of borrowing debt into existence is bogus. Fiat is designed to take Endowments in exchange for security in the feod.

      Your government schools infringe upon Endowments in all ways. First, U.S.C. I demands that all males between 16 and 45 be armed at all times with current military arms. YOUR DEMOCRACY has taken that to the point that only 30% even own a firearm. There is no need to force right now. The propaganda is doing the work without a shot fired. Ya all give your kids the the man to mold. Who needs force.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 5:27 pm

      Love the scooter Bradley. Everyone needs one in their garage.
      As far as needing to defend myself against the Gubermint, I’m not too worried. Most gubermint law enforcement agencies are heavily populated by fearful,insecure,paranoids for whom guns and ammo are a form of security blanket. They don’t buy these guns and ammo to use, but like a rich man and his money it makes them feel more secure. If they use them to kill us that will diminish their inventory and thereby increase their feelings of insecurity. Since these people can never feel secure they will continue to buy guns and ammo against that future day of armageddon which is always safely in the future.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 5:28 pm

      Our day of fat fingers continues as works race from my head to fingers that rebel.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 5:31 pm

      Seawolf, have you read the Framers?

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 5:36 pm

      Seawolf, much of law enforcement is worked by ex-military. Don’t make a mistake. They have already been in a firefight. Another 30%, in my opinion, are just waiting for the opportunity to drop a cap on Seawolf and are highly motivated to train for the moment it happens.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 6:36 pm

      HI Gary,
      Here is the press release for th 2009 ammo contract for 200 million rounds to ICE. It is the same as the current one to ATK. A maximum of 200 million rounds over a five year period. That comes out to 400,000 rounds per year if they take all of them. The ATK contract is 900,000 rounds per year,again if they actually take all of them which is not a given.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 6:37 pm
    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 6:43 pm

      Opps again. Did not add enough zeros to the numbers. Should be 4 million for the winchester contract and 90 million per year for ATK contract.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 6:53 pm

      As to what actually happened to the purchased ammo? It is probably sitting on a shelf in a warehouse somewhere making the top brass at ICE feel more secure that they can meet any terrorist onslaught. Now if only they could remember which warehouse it is stored in.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 10:53 pm

      Ask Vieria he is able to shepardize the fact.

  • edd May 22, 2012, 1:56 pm

    Guns, ammo, prospective shooting wars between the patriots and TPTB? Why are they “allowing” us to buy as many weapons as we can get our hands on? If they really want to cull the herd, would it not be easier to use targeted biologicals? Engineered microscopic soldiers unstoppable by any caliber bullet. Antitodes and immunity agents of course readily available to the selected chosen ones. Look up my friends. What is being sprayed on us all over the world, continually. Genetically modified crops. Government sanctioned and authorized flu shots. Will the doomsday preppers and patriotic foot soldiers really be organizing, plotting and scheming for rear guard actions against the enemy while they and their loved ones are slowly dying from an unknown weoponized microbe?

  • Jacques Redou May 22, 2012, 5:36 am

    Don’t know a thing about what fed.gov wants with .40 cal ammo but – I sold guns for many years.

    Back in the 80’s everyone went crazy over the 9mm because the US military started using it – I think it was an attempt to standardize with NATO. The 9mm is for
    a SEMI automatic pistol, fires once each time the trigger is pulled. Raw recruits
    loved the 9mm because it doesn’t have much recoil and made them good scores on the range. A lot of Americans got mad when
    the US Military awarded their gun contract
    for 9mm weapons to Beretta, an Italian company. Beretta proved to be a quality weapon.

    All the old guys from WW2 told the gov’t 9mm is a bad choice because a 9mm won’t stop a man. It’s not much more potent than a .38 (revolver bullet) and the cops stopped using thirty eights when the drugs came in in the 60’s – and the
    cops had to actually kill people – often people who had better guns.

    So the cops went to the .357 revolver bullet in the 1960’s because it WOULD stop a man. But a revolver only carries 6 (that’s six) rounds.

    Then a lot of Law Enforcement started using
    9mm. They liked the Military Cachet – they
    liked the good scores on the range – and the
    Berettas carried 19 (thats nineteen) rounds
    in a handgun that could FIT the average
    hand. Problem was, it still wouldn’t STOP
    a MAN.

    What to do. Ever since WWI the US army
    had shot the .45 caliber COLT Auto. Many
    Military Types have FOND memories of
    this weapon. Reliable. Powerful. It WILL
    stop a man. What’s the problem? Just go
    back to the .45. But it only has 8 rounds
    if it fits the Average Hand.

    By now a LOT of Law enforcement is Totally
    Disenchanted with the 9mm. FBI agents have been killed when the 9mm fails to Stop. The lawsuits were mounting because
    the cops would EMPTY 19 rounds into the
    PERPS to make sure they would not get up.
    Then the perps’ family would sue over police
    brutality. Why does my son have 19 holes in him?

    What was needed was a COMPROMISE.

    That was the .40 caliber. It would stop a man, had the same power as a .357, but
    14 or 15 rounds could be carried in an
    average sized semi automatic handgun.
    Very popular these days.

    • John Jay May 22, 2012, 5:54 am

      Very interesting insights on pistol technology.
      Have you seen the new Arsenal Firearms double barrel .45? I am surprised it has not shown up in any of the ultra-violent movies so popular these days!

    • ExNav May 22, 2012, 9:28 am

      I remember switching over from the M1911 Colt to the M9 Beretta around 1985-86. The .45 was very popular even though it was a heavy weapon, but it was also well balanced and you could fire it rapidly without any muzzle rise. And it had only like 6 parts to it, making it very easy to clean. You never filled the mag completely, cause the springs would wear out and we had to reuse the same mags over and over.

  • Mark Uzick May 22, 2012, 4:18 am

    @ That doesn’t really help if gold is still subject to capital gains tax and sales tax.

    Wow Steve, I had no idea you were referring to that statement; I thought it was the other one.

    I’ll have to disagree with you then: You’re correct from a Constitutional or “legal” perspective, but although superior to other forms of fiat law (I believe you call them statutory laws.) the Constitution is only an evolutionary step towards legitimate law – a flawed imitation or approximation of it.

    Leaving aside for a moment that the state is an aggressive (criminal) enterprise, if we must have one for the obvious reason that our ethical and political beliefs are not sufficiently evolved to understand why aggression is evil, impractical, uncivilized and self destructive, but wish to evolve into a less uncivilized society, then a good step in that direction is to privatize money – allowing systems of money and credit to evolve within a competitive market.

    The Constitution should be amended to remove from the state the power to coin money or, in any way, regulate money, credit, banking and other aspects of finance or commerce. Making it illegal to tax gold or any other store of value and medium of exchange would go a long way toward the privatization of money.

    Once the Constitution is amended to open to competition in the market all of the other functions monopolized by the state, then its role as the scaffolding of civilized order will be complete; and this order will take on a life of its own – growing ever more robust and blossoming in its diversity.

    It will, of course, take time; simply changing the laws will not work; society must evolve and the great virtue of structuring the state as a democratic republic is that the laws will change when a sufficient percentage of a society’s natural leaders (Not just political leaders.) are ready for change, assuring that the structure has integrity before that section of scaffolding is removed.

    Each section of scaffolding that is successfully removed will boost the people’s confidence that people can be relied upon to help one-another, create wealth and resolve problems – both natural and man made – without reliance on the heavy handed state, making successive liberalizing steps easier to sell.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 4:01 pm

      The problem Mark is that the distinction between legitmate government and defacto government mobocracy is completely lost to these expressions that have no base in fact that can be obtained by study. Thus, the theory expressed on the state is fatally flawed in that there is no understanding. Apples are not oranges and the current state is a private mobocracy in assent to outlawry corporately. We cannot communicate Mark because someone’s head is in the sand. Is there a de Jure and a de Facto state – Yes !

    • Mark Uzick May 22, 2012, 5:49 pm

      The mob must be tamed/educated into a less uncivilized order; laws alone will not protect our rights – even Constitutional laws that, though they do serve the purpose of a rough scaffolding, are a mere imitation of true legitimacy. They haven’t protected us, nor can they, if there’s no understanding of why they were written; and it doesn’t help that they are not true law – setting the precedent for increasingly outrageous fiat law.

      No written law can control a mob – the mob must be civilized though the dissemination of knowledge, ideas and philosophy that can become a shared vision and incorporated as an integral part of their most deeply held religions.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 8:54 pm

      Obviously there is no experience with fear/flight/greed/hunger/thirst. There is Mosaic Law, not constitutional Law, only constitutional guarrantee by contract constitution agreement. The Endowment of Law provides that I and/or the People may terminate a mob for cause. In fact it is an ignored obligation of living to terminate the mob based in Immutable Law. Every act since the Mosaic Law has been to bring hu’man gods to illegitimate powers to make inferior rules looser than the Immutable Law. It is why it is called assent to rebellion, Amos H. Shor v. Francis Ertimanager 5 Opin. 354, 525, Answer to Mr. Pratt by Justices Nelson and Strong on ‘the locations act’, Cert Denied supreme Court.

      We differ in education and belief and it is Okay as long as my endowments are not infringed.

    • Mark Uzick May 23, 2012, 2:52 am

      We differ in education and belief and it is Okay as long as my endowments are not infringed.

      While we do differ in education, we are to a great degree similar in our beliefs; but where my beliefs may be said to constitute the whole of my religion, you have integrated your beliefs into a traditional theological framework which you interpret so as to confirm your convictions by providing you with an external and unquestionable authority for their source and their righteousness.

      Though I’m an outsider, I can still admire your commitment to what you know in your heart and mind is true; and your understanding of it as God’s law. In any case, I think that we can both agree that, whatever its reason, divine or secular, it’s based on immutable universal law.

  • John Jay May 22, 2012, 3:26 am

    Nice debate today amongst us all.

  • Chris T. May 21, 2012, 11:13 pm

    Two comments:
    “[Prince Michael:]…It was a big mistake… to allow all nations belonging to the EU to borrow at the same low rates.”

    True of course, but NOT all nations in the US borrrowed at the same low cost!

    The only way the high-cost borrowers, such as Greece, Ireland, Spain, etc could borrow at (for them) lower rates, is by transfer of the low rates paid primarily by Germany (and the Netherlands, maybe one or two others).

    But, just as with any arithemtic mean, the two don’t meet at one end, but somewhere in between.
    SO: Germany et.al. had to pay HIGHER rates, than without this all-for-one rate.
    The additional cost of that to the affected countries is staggering, but because it is so invisible, hardly anyone notices.
    That is how the real free-loading was paid for, leading to booms (now busts) in the primary beneficiary sectors: real estate, public sectors everywhere…

    As to the ammo:
    most certainly for civilian “troops”.
    One just has to look at the every encroaching militarization of the cops.
    Of course those cops will fight to protect their paymaster, the “state” from the sheeple, that is where their bread is buttered.

    One reason why supposedly underpaid public employees of the enforcement sector are now paid WAY WAY more than the mean income.

    Case in point, in NJ (one of the worst):

    A town with a median income of about 105k (so one of the upscale ones) has a police force where the average copper makes 100k, not counting the cost of healthcare (+20k), and other “unfunded liabilities”.

    So, the cops are making MORE than this already elevated mean income.
    Guess who’ll they “serve”?

    • Chris T. May 21, 2012, 11:14 pm

      obiously first sentence should have said EU, not US…

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 3:01 am

      Law enforcment wants the 70th percentile on the street. The 96th percentile is groomed to be radical and lead (much like the bammer). What does that tell ya ? 30% of the cops will not go. 100% of the ex-marines will go. Who will go first – he who is careless at the door. Does everyone think this is not all planned out, and that if the three roads leading into portland are closed that there will be any food in the store in 8 hours, or any food in a home in 72 hours ?

    • SD1 May 22, 2012, 5:11 am

      The cop’s “bread is buttered” by taxpayers … or did you somehow forget that part?

    • Chris T. May 22, 2012, 6:49 pm

      You don’t honestly believe that we, the “taxpayers” employ them? what an old meme.

      They are employed by the state, the “byurokRATS”.
      More than that is just an illusion, as is the whole notion that we still are a democratic republic.

      What choice does a taxpayer have in all this?
      None at all.
      Read some history of Sparta:
      we are just helots to them, the Equals, and the coppers are the semi-privileged enforcers.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 8:46 pm

      Chris T. You employed me and I was a Public Servant. Its not always as it seems on the surface.

    • Rich May 23, 2012, 3:40 am

      This widespread confusion re whom public employees serve, themselves or the taxpayers?, is one good reason libertarians should stand for office to out the slackers and restore accountability to government finance.

      The Feds thought they could just print funny money to cover tax shortages and no one would get hurt.

      Not really…

  • John Jay May 21, 2012, 9:13 pm

    Any disruption in the food/water supply would have to be brought about the government themselves. Either through a financial collapse or a nuclear exchange. That precludes a New Madrid type earthquake or Yellowstone erupting. If it happens what will result is starvation and disease in situ on a massive scale, not an instant army marching on DC. If they are truly worried at the top I don’t see why. Senators, Congressmen, and even Henry Kissinger get rousted at the airport and there are no consequences. I would say their plan is to get us used to the new Police State now that the Corporate takeover is accomplished. I have accepted that fact. My hope now is that the Dollar benefits from the global chaos they have created to avoid the collapse here as long as possible. I have no plans to provoke or challenge the authorities. I am strictly a spectator/commentator.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:55 am

      jj ? Dollar, or federal reserve note ? Shame, because taking a Stand is what is needed. It is what has been lacking for 70+ years. It is better planned than you think JJ. Legislators must be seen to be hu’man just like everyone else. Disruptions in todays world will cause anarchy. No one in the city knows where meat comes from.

  • gary leibowitz May 21, 2012, 9:12 pm

    Another shocker, perhaps more bizarre than the notion that this govenmnet is preparing for a full scale attack on its citizens.

    The Greek Liberal Party might be joining the Conservative Party. I heard it thru the Wall Street Journal. The current polling suggests they could pull it off. This would suggest some austerity and staying with the EU.

    Sorry folks for the “bad” news. Just anopther excuse for stocks to rally.

  • bc May 21, 2012, 8:57 pm

    For me, the telling change from the Lou Rockwell contingent is the inclusion of Paul Craig Roberts’ writing which is getting really cranky about the shredding of our constitution too by the way. The drift towards tyranny is well established now, not just a paranoid theory of Ayn Rand Libertarians and bible belt fundamentalists.

    • Chris T. May 21, 2012, 11:38 pm

      “really cranky” is not the word you should use at all.
      Extremely direct is much more apt.

      There is nothing at fault with PCR recent argumentation, he is just mincing not words at all.
      And he has more explicitly than ever before, called out the AIPAC conglomerate, esp. the fact that a on ongoing debate by insiders within Israel (about Iran, war,etc), is completely being blocked from US news.

      Given his background, it is a very good thing that PCR is putting things so bluntly.
      Must reads IMHO…

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:50 am

      The constitution was put into trust in 1938. What exists is contract Law and Roman Civil Law democracy, not Republican Form. One can use the 14th amendment which has legislative privileges something like held in the constitution, it is for hu’man corporations, not Man (that is the 14th)

      The Constitution is a contract binding the voluntary person taking beneficial use of public trust office. It, the Constitution, is highly limited and is only an agreement between the person and the Framers.

      The Constitution grants no Endowments, it only secures that the legislator, by contract, cannot breach agreement/contract. The Constitution secures that the legislator will be tried by the People for Breach of Contract.

      Why to the People fail to do their part ?

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 9:30 pm

      do do

  • gary leibowitz May 21, 2012, 8:34 pm

    The NRA has made great inroads to allow every single citizen to arm. Not only arm but take someone out if you feel threatened, as it states in Florida’s State Law.

    Now with all this arming, and easy access to guns and ammo, would it make sense to than go ahead and arm the Government agencies to have a shoot out at the OK corral?

    Wouldn’t our government make it harder to own a gun today than before if they were planning on killing 30 million people?

    Just a guess but I think they might actually be smart enough to go the other route. Disarm citizens or allow them to arm to the teeth before a showdown? Easy answer.

    • Chris T. May 21, 2012, 11:51 pm

      but you overlook the color divide:

      where in your assertion that there is easy access do NJ, NY, MA fit in?
      They do not, it is not simple here at all.

      Then there is the weird cognitive dissonance within many of those arming (where it is easy(ier)) of being “against the state” and arming for that purpose, but then supporting state power in the RahRah sphere?

      Plus there is a basic flaw in your argument:
      it is much easier to up-arm (militarize) those enforcing your rule, than to disarm those that are not yet fully helots.
      \After all, there is still a Constitution that can’t just yet be completely ignored.

      So, they ARE choosing the easier route.
      Don’t forget: the helots are not organized in any large groups, and no coordinated action is expected by the enforcers.

    • Mark Uzick May 22, 2012, 2:24 am

      Wouldn’t our government make it harder to own a gun today than before if they were planning on killing 30 million people?

      You must realize that you’ve just made an effective argument implying that the state fully intends to murder Americans to get its way.

      Be careful what you say Gary – they’re watching you.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:43 am

      Hell Mark, where have you been. The gov has engaged in mass murder just to test the will of the masses – who just sat there and did nothing. The government of the U.S. has taken Monarchy by force, used disease for genecide and nuked civilians by the hundred of thousands. The government has taken away food sources and clean water to kill and weaken the natural people. The gov has used fuel to burn out Men and Women and snipers to commit murder on the several States with tanks and federal officers who are not allowed on the soil of the several states. Clinton and Reno made a bunch of tests – and they – the servants just sat there and drank the coolaid propaganda.

      The Articles of Amendment say “Congress shall make no Law”. The Endowment to defend Self is antecedent to the state and far more ancient. The entire Bill of Rights is “Congress Shall make No Law”.

      The attorney at the NRA are a joke – I’ve talked truth to them and they told me the people do not want the truth about a slave holding a firearm.

      No one grants or takes the Endowment and obligation to defend. I suggest a reading of United States Code section 1 and the obligation for all Men to arm themselves as an obligation of Citizenship on a several State. But then, if one lives corporately one has no endowments, only the legislative priviledge recognized by the supreme court for a slave to keep a gun under the permission of the branch.

      If one wonders about the term ‘gov’ & “government” – that is you in the mirror.

      They know my name. And, they have my words submitted to the appeals court – doesn’t change the truth.

    • Mark Uzick May 22, 2012, 4:31 am

      Steve, nice rant, but how does that apply to the point I made to Gary: that his evidence implied just the opposite of what he attempted to convey?

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 8:43 pm

      No rant Gary – History documented in regard to abuses by corporate persons.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 8:44 pm

      Sorry Gary – Mark on you. Is that what you were trying to say. Great clarification !!!!

  • Steve May 21, 2012, 8:19 pm

    Now that I’ve slowed down a bit. Great Job Rick!!!!

    There isn’t a single person on the forum that can argue with Vieria because Vieria will bury them with facts in footnotes. One might argue in futility with Vieria personally, but the facts and foot notes will destroy the brainwashing creating ignorance. All of you, Read Piece of Eight and get an education in money as cow manure and specie as the money of the People.

    Great forum post Rick.

    • Seawolf May 21, 2012, 11:35 pm

      I just did. see above.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:29 am

      Seawolf, I took care of you above to show the ignorance of not understanding budget and system in government. Additionally, taking on me is like whipping on a baby newborn. This little bit of tripe does not equate to the ability of the Doctor to put a document in order. You took me on Seawolf, not the the good doctor who holds at least 4 degrees from Harvard. Read the manuscript and get an education in shepardization of facts. To say you kicked Vieria’s ass by dropping water on me; says it all.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 2:55 am

      My reply is above Steve.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 8:42 pm

      And I took care of the mistakes in regard to Vieira again above

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 9:34 pm

      Steve, I don’t care how many piled higher and deepers he has got. If he in fact said that DHS bought 750 million rounds of.40 cal. ammo for the Army he is wrong.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 10:45 pm

      U a brave man ta challenge the Vieira. Not on a bet would I go there so as to get my ass kicked. Bet on Vieira. Bet on Vieira.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 10:49 pm

      Just to reinforce the statement. Vieria has been there and done it, unlike a bunch of withering wind singing song singers. Besides the degrees, that Man has been in the trenches and found the crimes and hidden facts of the mobocracy crowd. Read “Pieces of Eight”, or find an original manuscript before ejecting. I’d bet the link source was wrong before Vieria was wrong. But then, there are hu’mans error.

  • John Jay May 21, 2012, 8:17 pm

    Sure they have the police/military plan and train for massive civil insurrection. But I doubt the people at the top think it will ever happen in this country. Every militia type group probably has at least one undercover Fed or informant on board. Remember how the FBI took down the Klan back in the 60s? The Feds know exactly what is going on, and the only way they ever get an arrest for the MSM to showcase is to entice the mentally challenged into a “conspiracy”. It would take a military coup or a private army on the scale of the SA in Nazi Germany to be any credible threat to the Government.
    They have been carefully watching all the militia groups for decades and they have come up with zero threat.
    Just like at the airports. It is all theater to justify a power grab by the government and a money grab by the MIC.

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 8:22 pm

      I agree with the general statment JJ, but; the presentment that the top brass does not think it will happen is a misstatement of reality. I have been in the classes personally.

      What they are concerned about is a disruption in food/water “interstate commerce” that will precipitate the worst.

      I’m guessing that there is a general lack of individual experience JJ. It is a fatal mistake to underestimate.

  • Rich May 21, 2012, 7:34 pm

    Nice venue Rick.

    Chinese Buyers Defaulting on Raw Material Cargos’

    “Chinese consumers of thermal coal and iron ore are asking traders to defer cargos and — in some cases — defaulting on their contracts, in the clearest sign yet of the impact of the country’s economic slowdown on the global raw materials markets.”

  • Steve May 21, 2012, 7:25 pm

    I have been on the road for the past 5 days attending a National Art Show that just had its 40th year. I have been at 28 of those shows at that location. The majority of the people have no touch on the pulse of reality in regard to what is happening at art shows, in business, or in government. Yes, there are art auction sales for 118 million for a single piece of artwork. And, yes there are a very few artists building monuments for government and a few corporate projects. But, most of the real money is now in church projects much like it was hundreds of years ago. Fred Oldfield just turned 94 and has been at 40 shows in the venue. It is the worst he has ever seen in number of people on location and prices at auction. The long term direction is down with radical bumps up from time to time.

    I read the posts from Friday, and I have read the ignorance written today. Change is easy. Obama changes his words to fit what the individual who will never take a Stand wants to hear. The government is on this site via agents and watchers. Friday, for the most part, was the biggest bunch of cow pie ignorance I have read on this forum.

    The government has planned and is planning. The government can use anything it wishes on so called civilians, residents, which in reality are simply hu’man corporations, or natural born corporations. Men are one thing and humans quite another. So people, in war no Nation can use hollow point, or dumb dumb rounds on individuals. Against a citizen/resident, anything may be used because it is not under the Law of War.

    The biggest stupidity is that what is feared is not even a constitutional government. It is a private corporation creating hu’man corporations where free Man once stood. The word hu’man music, hu’man work, describes the Thing in form. Get real. A hu’man is a natural born corporation – a Man Corp who’s rights are taken for legislative privilege.

    Vieria – will kick arse on any of the junk that has been written herein. He will use facts and case law to destroy the ignorance and abuses being conducted herein.

    I am personally thankful for hu’mans like Gary. It will make things easier should things continue to happen as they now are. Certain among us will feed the masses who will first gorge on the soft flesh. All of you out there PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE. The good needs a soft underbellie to be gorged upon before bone and muscle come to bear.

  • BigTom May 21, 2012, 6:54 pm

    Rick – thanks for posting this story. Unfortunately metro America seldom deals with the federal government directly and so has little idea of the types of people that have filled the ranks of these bureaucracies. They find these types of stories as you posted today hard to believe. And yes, our government is basically run now by these bureaucracies, and elected officials now are about as relevant to governing America as vestigial wings are to an elephant today thinking it can fly. Rural Americans have been dealing with these gov’t bureaucracies for years and also have been making noise about the government for years , but unfortunately MSM has portrayed them as uneducated gun loving, bible thumping, conspiracy minded knuckle dragging neanderthals and, you know, rather dumb. And Metro America has basically believed in that portrayal. Metro America would be rather surprised also to find these agencies filled with people that truly believe most Americans are to stupid to see that these ‘more educated bureaucrats are trying to make the world a better place.’ Getting those people out of the way of them making a better world I don’t believe is beyond their capabilities. They have pushed aside those who don’t believe in their world view as those not capable of rational thought, or said more plainly, just ‘dumb.’ You may think my views here extreme but I have dealt with these people in gov’t agencies in rural America for many years and this is what I have concluded. Metro america sadly is not able to connect the dots on the many small incremental changes that has been happening in America over the years. Things don’t fall out of the sky and just happen randomly. Most things happen for a reason, and especially when these many things when strung together lead in a particular direction. Awhile back you did a story and posted a rather beautiful picture of ‘idyllic’ rural America and how nice it would be to escape to such a refuge. If Americans ever do move to rural America’s hide-away they will be surprised to find many brand new government vehicles moving about everywhere and filled with green shirted government gestapo thugs jack booting thru their forests proclaiming loudly the latest EPA edict! It is not the rural ‘leave me alone’ and ‘idyllic’ world you think it is out here any longer……again, thanks for doing this story…..

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 6:58 pm

      Yes, Big Tom, yes!

    • Mark Uzick May 21, 2012, 8:18 pm

      Do you think that metro areas, even with all their problems, may actually be safer if there’s violence?

      I’m thinking of the relative safety of Moscow residents versus the Kulaks; and wondering if that example isn’t relevant to a tyrannical crackdown in America.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:22 am

      Mark, there is no logic taught by the military in regard to your thoughts. What will happen is that the resources will exhaust in the city because everyone thinks the gov will take care of them. They will then raid into the countryside.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:23 am

      The other thing is that a crackdown on a sect of the population is much different than a breakdown in water/food commerce.

    • Mark Uzick May 22, 2012, 2:37 am

      What will happen is that the resources will exhaust in the city because everyone thinks the gov will take care of them. They will then raid into the countryside.

      Didn’t something like that happen to the Kulaks? Would you rather be a Kulak or a Moscowite? Let’s hope things never get so bad that, like a mid century Russian, we regret failing to flee when it was still possible.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 9:28 pm

      Mark, let us hope that it never gets to the point. But, be prepared. I fear because I am trained to deal with population isolation and movement containment.

  • John Jay May 21, 2012, 5:46 pm

    Gun battles in Beirut now?
    Nothing about Jordan so far, quiet there I guess.
    Operation Arab Spring roars on!
    Chaos in the MENA.
    Chaos in the EU.
    Keeps that Treasury paper levitating!

  • C.C. May 21, 2012, 5:37 pm

    – Do you have more freedom today than you did in 1980? 1970? 1960?

    – Are your property rights more or less secure than they were in the previously mentioned decades?

    – Do you have more or less parental control over your children than said previous decades?

    – Are firearm purchase/ownership restrictions more or less than said decades?

    – Has the ability of the average citizen to make decisions about his/her well being as an individual or a group, been enhanced or further hindered by the State, as opposed to said decades past?

    – Are you able to transact as freely and travel as freely as said previous decades?

    – Have you taken a look at the level of sophistication, access to information, weaponry and collaboration with other governmental agencies that your Local police department has? Have you ever wondered why such a need?

    These are but a few examples of questions you can ask yourself in order to arrive at a reasonable explanation as to why the government might decide to hoard ammunition and – any/many other $taxpayer-funded activities going on right underneath your nose – expressly for your ‘safety’, of course –

  • Seawolf May 21, 2012, 4:00 pm

    Additional research on the ammo purchase indicates that this is only a contract to lock in a price for 5 years for that many rounds and not an actual purchase. The winchester contract was probably similar. I am unable double verify this however.

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 6:49 pm

      Verify your source.

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 6:54 pm

      Seawolf, Challenge Vieria with your comments. He has kicked the Supreme Court in the arse 3 out of 4 times in real trial. His research is beyond question.

      In the Oregon appeals court sits a case on 1-10-1 and the court remains silent for now.

    • Seawolf May 21, 2012, 9:06 pm

      The contract is Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ). That means no specified amount or specific delivery time. The base contract is for one year with option for four more years. It is a contingency contract for a maximum of 450 million rounds. That’s all. Here are contact numbers at AKT, the supplier.
      Media Contact: Investor Contact:
      Jason Nash Steve Wold
      Phone: 800-322-2342 (ext. 3878) Phone: 952-351-3056
      E-mail: [email protected] E-mail: [email protected]

    • Seawolf May 21, 2012, 10:23 pm

      This is for you Steve. This is the press release direct from the ATK website:
      As I interpret the terms of the contract it is for some amount of .40 cal. ammo to be purchased over the next year at the discretion of the buyer. That means something between zero and 450 million rounds, but not specifically 450 million rounds. The contract is for one year with options for extension. Simply put DHS/ICE is sourcing a supplier, nothing more.

    • Chris T. May 21, 2012, 11:57 pm

      “nothing more”?
      When then the purchase of weapons deemed illegal in war by international law?
      Unless we will break that rule too, and we do it all the time anyway, they can only be used domestically.

      Against whom?

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 12:11 am

      Chris T.- – -As I said this contract is sourcing a supplier of .40 cal. pistol ammo. How much they will actually buy is unknown. Over the life of the contract DHS/ICE can buy up to 450 million rounds at the contract price. This caliber seems to be the pistol caliber of choice among US police departments so maybe DHS is suppling them? I don”t know about that, nor can I know. The ATK press release is sourced on one of my previous comments. Read it for yourself.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:19 am

      Seawolf, Have you worked in government ? Local departments buy their own ammo on their own. One gets a set bid, and then goes to the well to get the budget approval for the established contract. The huge number is because someone sees a need.

      Even so all local police have been using inhuman hollow point ammo for a long time. I fought it in regard to 223 10 years ago because of have seen the wounds and the tissue destruction.

      I wanted it when I was in law enforcement because I wanted to cut you in half with a hollow point so the courts would have no say.

      Hollow points are effective tools to kill. In war the idea is to wound and take resources of war.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:21 am

      Sorry Seawolf, I’ll try again!

      Even so all local police have been using inhuman hollow point ammo for a long time. I fought it in regard to 223 10 years ago because I have seen the wounds and the tissue destruction.

    • Seawolf May 22, 2012, 2:50 am

      Steve, all I have been trying to say all day is that this is a sourcing contract for up to 450 million rounds for DHS/ICE, not 750 million rounds for the army ( DoD does their own procurement and other than the MP’s very few army personnel carry a side arm). This is not a hard contract for 450 million rounds but a contract for DHS/ICE to order what they think they need up to 450 million rounds. They may buy all of it or half of it or none. Obviously they will be buying a lot. My question becomes why do they need so much hollow point ammo. There are only so many pistols to keep loaded while on duty and there are not that many shots fired on a duty shift. Are they silly enough to be using this for target practice?

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 8:41 pm

      Seawolf, I agree with the idea that it is a sourcing contract. But, the number of rounds is established for a reason. That is to get budget approval.

      Smart departments practice with HV rounds so that reflex is established based in HV not LV recoil and timing. Doesn’t mean all departments are smart though.

      My point has been that if one has looked at Vieira’s work history and ability one should take great stock in what he is saying. He does not make mistakes and he shepardizes what he does.

  • John Jay May 21, 2012, 3:38 pm

    Re: .40 ammo purchases.
    My take.
    Follow the money.
    Someone is making a lot of money on that contract for ammo that will sit in storage forever and likely be pilfered and resold.
    Or given away later to foreign governments as military aid.
    Just more pigs at the trough.
    TPTB in DC don’t really fear a revolt.
    It is just a propaganda tool for the power grab.
    Americans are too MSM crazed lazy to even vote for change.
    Let alone stage an armed insurrection.
    Just attend an Oakland Raiders game, a Dodgers game, and a NASCAR race.
    I rest my case.

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 6:48 pm

      JJ. The statement could not be further from the reality of federal power and civilian police training. Jerk yer head out of the sand. I was and still am trained, by the military, as a civilian police officer for mass disorder on the soil of the State. It is expected, and the scenarios established. Saying it isn’t so, isn’t smart.

  • gary leibowitz May 21, 2012, 3:33 pm

    Here is a less ominous reason, and perhaps one that rational heads will accect.
    1 – Made a similar purchase in 2009 with Winchester.
    2 – Law enforcement routinely uses up any surplus budget so the governments doesn’t lower their next allotment.
    3 – Curb availability by civilians by jacking up the price.
    “The hollow point, of course, features a pitted or hollow tip intended to expand upon entering its target. ATK says its ammunition is “engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration” — all hallmarks of the hollow point.

    This is not the first time DHS has placed such an order, however. In 2009, it signed a contract with Winchester for the procurement of 200 million hollow points.

    The order may seem unusually high, but gun experts I talked to said it is not necessarily unusual and simply reflects a long-running practice by DHS and law enforcement agencies to use any remaining budget surplus on items routinely used and that would not be called into question. The idea being that if an agency does not use its entire budget in expenditures, the government will lower its budget the following year.

    On the other hand, the decreased retail availability for hollow points does drive up demand, and hence price for such ammunition. Whether the consequence is an intended one, remains to be seen.

    So is this a calculated move by the government to curb ammunition availability to civilians or is it simply another way for it to spend money? Weigh in with your thoughts below”

    • gary leibowitz May 21, 2012, 3:43 pm

      If they bought in 2009 where did those go? Perhaps they already used them on US civilians? I think not.

  • mario cavolo May 21, 2012, 3:12 pm

    Bullion as payment for private transactions…

    Why not? People should easily realize that as service providers, bartering a trade on a service or asset is a perfectly fine idea between two agreeable parties. In no way at all is it a big deal or strange.

    “I want to rent some space in your store to promote my products. Instead of paying you cash, I will give you some equal value of my products.”

    “Will you my monthly accounting for which you charge $500 in exchange for $500 credit eating at my restaurant?” Hey, I have $500 worth of gold, want that? yea sure why not?”

    This ain’t complicated…

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 6:45 pm

      It is called Money Mario, Coin is one thing, and silver specie Coin another. You are correct Mario – barter is money in an agreed contract. Money is what two or more say it is – the green pie in my field by my Hereford is money if we agree. Specie Coin, quite another thing.

  • Mark Uzick May 21, 2012, 7:25 am

    In fact, says Vieira, under the provisions of Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution, a growing number of U.S. states are opening the door to bullion as payment for private transactions.

    That doesn’t really help if gold is still subject to capital gains tax and sales tax.

    On the (very) scary side, Vieira divulged that an American firm has been awarded a contract by Homeland Security to provide 750 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow-point ammunition to the U.S. Army. This type of bullet is designed for just one purpose, warns Vieira: killing civilians.

    Well at least that shows that TPTB understand the ultimate consequences of their policies; and while it’s disturbing that they are purposely proceeding anyway, given sufficient reason, they could change there minds if they think it’s in their interest. While it’s not much of a thread of hope to cling to, it’s still better than if they were mindless idiots, too clueless to change course – even if they didn’t want anarchy.

    Devaluation is the only way out for an America drowning in debt, Brodsky asserts. And don’t think it would hurt the banks; they would love it, he says, for they care not what the value of the dollar is, or about the level of real interest rates, only about the spread between their own borrowing costs and what they charge customers.

    Yep, I’m thinking this too.

    Rather than accepting blame for the financial catastrophe that his tenure at the Fed set in motion, Greenspan has instead blamed Americans, who, he said, chose a “welfare state” over the discipline of gold.

    So Easy Al finally admits that he was a sleazy opportunist who sold his soul for fame and power by selling to the public the poison it demanded; and he has the chutzpa to say, “Ha suckers! – you asked for it.”

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 6:42 pm

      Read Vieria and Pieces of Eight before engaging irregular thinking. Ignorance abounds by ignoring the truth to fit one’s brainwashing.

    • Mark Uzick May 21, 2012, 8:35 pm

      Steve, what did I say that sounded “irregular” to you? I’d appreciate it if you could help alleviate some small part of my, no doubt, vast ignorance of many things. [no sarcasm intended] I’m sure that others here would appreciate that too. As soon as I get a chance, I’ll look for more information about Vieria’s warnings. Thanks in advance.

    • Steve May 22, 2012, 2:11 am

      @ That doesn’t really help if gold is still subject to capital gains tax and sales tax.

      Once one reads Piece of Eight and then works individually to understand hu’man corporations versus Man kind it all becomes a bit clearer. Flipping one’s mind to understand that gold is valued in specie Coin and that the rest is just corporate excises on hu’man corporations helps.

      Gold has a value of 50 specie Dollars – federal reserve notes are just a tally to allow the corporate master to collect a tally in tithe.

      Play in the tar and pay the tar baby the tithe on the gain.

      Look in the mirror and flip the understanding learned from the masses who trade in fiat fraud notes.

      Everyone is looking from the perspective that federal reserve notes have value and are Coin. Silver specie is a constant @ 371 4/16ths and there can be no gain as the value cannot change until the legislature so enacts.

      Flip the mind and look at the value 371 4/16ths instead of trying to impute value to something valueless like federal reserve notes.

      I use Coin, you use bullion valued in debt tally of a Fee, fife, tenant in possession, debtor in possession.

      How can there be gain on a value of 50 silver Specie Coin, or 50 x 371 4/16ths? As long as one imputes something for voluntary ‘use’ in fiat notes one will pay the master for the use.

      One is loosing big time if one goes beyond quid pro quo which is what happened in 1971. What once bought silver 1 on 1 now pays 30 notes for 1 Dollar. Understand – flip the mind and get it that the value is in 1 ounce Troy of silver as a Dollar and that does not change to a value of 30 x 1.

      One can trade the change created by the fed, but; one is always going to loose in the long run. Made a bunch from 414 to 1700 in the past 15 years, or has one accepted 1700 debt tallies where on only had to accept 414 in the past?

  • SD1 May 21, 2012, 6:38 am

    “On the (very) scary side, Vieira divulged that an American firm has been awarded a contract by Homeland Security to provide 750 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow-point ammunition to the U.S. Army. This type of bullet is designed for just one purpose, warns Vieira: killing civilians. ”

    Yes, and of course these bullets would be used for nothing other than killing US civilians (sarcasm intended). You are lowering yourself to a level you are well above in even bothering to quote this one, Rick. The sad thing is, you know it.

    • Rick Ackerman May 21, 2012, 7:16 am

      Until you have read Vieira in context, you are being quite presumptuous about his message — not to mention, about the “level” of my reporting. I invite you to research the topic and refute the facts if you can. Vieira is just one of many sources for this story.

    • ExNav May 21, 2012, 7:26 am

      I’ve read several references to the DHS purchase of 750 million rounds of .40 cal ammo for the US Army. I spent many years in the USN and have never seen a .40 cal round ever. Plenty of 5.56mm, 7.62mm and .50 cal and .45 and 9mm for pistol ammo. Never a .40 cal., unless thats something new in the last few years.


      I’d be interested myself to see what readers can dig up on this. I can only say that Vieira is not some paramilitary whack-job — he’s a brilliant constitutional scholar who holds four degree from Harvard. RA

    • Benjamin May 21, 2012, 7:27 am

      a) any good reporter will report in full… even if the speaker just sticks their tongue out and goes pffffft.

      b) how do you know what Rick knows? Ah, but the very fact that you posted it, instead of just thinking it, means you’re not joined to him at the brain and therefore cannot truly know what he thinks.

      c) “This [ammo] isn’t target type ammunition for training, no, this is people stopping ammunition”. 2.5 bullets for every citizen. Or, 250 for 3.1 million. So Homeland Security is expecting so many terrorists to descend on our borders? Heck, even 25,000 bullets for 31,000 terrorists sounds like a highly improbable scenario. But that’s just dumb ol’ me.

    • DJI May 21, 2012, 8:07 am

      And what other purpose is there for this massive purchase of ammunition domestically? Don’t forget they also ordered bullet proof guard checkpoint booths.

      But don’t worry, DHS isn’t the only one gearing up. There’s 3 million of us “preppers” that are also getting ready according the national geographic survey (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/doomsday-survey-51-of-americans-believe-a-financial-collapse-is-imminent-85-say-country-is-overwhelmingly-under-prepared_03132012). Lets hope it doesn’t come down to a shooting war which is what the offshore bankers want as they hide in their armored Swiss redoubts.

    • Seawolf May 21, 2012, 2:39 pm
    • Buster May 21, 2012, 2:42 pm

      I linked this particular story on the forum around a month ago. Here it is again:
      It explains why most servicemen won’t have seen this type of ammo before…..it’s banned from use in war under the Geneva Convention, so it is only likely being purchased for the purpose of domestic controls. With the Banksters now openly payrolling the security forces against demonstrators protesting against their grand theft, it’s time to accept that democracy is lost & Corporate Fascism really does rule. It’s no conspiracy theory & nothing personal, just good old fashioned predatory business practice of psychopaths & sociapaths.

    • Seawolf May 21, 2012, 2:46 pm
    • SD1 May 21, 2012, 5:06 pm

      Assuming they don’t plan on killing EVERYONE, 750 million rounds sounds a lot like “The Gang Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight.” A quick note to DJI: in the event your government truly hates its citizens and wants you all dead, you and your 3 million “brethren” don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell, and it wouldn’t matter if you were all armed with machine guns and bazookas (which you aren’t). You’re a typewriter battling a super computer.

    • Bradley May 21, 2012, 6:03 pm

      Refreshing. Absolutely refreshing.

    • Steve May 21, 2012, 6:38 pm

      Irregular thinking here People. 40 is the ammo for civilian law enforcement, which is what Homeland is. Get a handle on reality. The police departments have been trained to do the first work.

    • Cam Fitzgerald May 21, 2012, 8:37 pm

      But 750 million rounds for policing? That is creepy. How many rounds of ammo are used in the typical year in the entire US by all law enforcement agencies combined? I mean, by way of comparison to the current procurement contracts. Sounds like someone is preparing for the expectation of a lot of trouble. Kind of gives you the chills.

    • DJI May 22, 2012, 4:58 am

      SD1- I believe the 97% who sat on their rear ends during the American revolution said the same thing about our chances against the King. Funny how that one turned out. It only takes a handful of people to awaken the slumbering masses. These comments from you poo poo’ing the tyranny now befalling the U.S. are quite ironic since you are not even an American. Maybe in your country it’s acceptable to lick the boots of your banking masters, but here in the U.S. we will not go down without a fight.

    • Rich May 22, 2012, 4:52 pm
  • mario cavolo May 21, 2012, 6:29 am

    Wow what a lovely Monday morning read with my coffee to start my week.

  • Benjamin May 21, 2012, 4:02 am

    Last Friday, Robert Moore remarked about the disturbing development of sheriffs, nationwide, being stripped of their law enforcement powers. And if I recall, this has been mentioned by others here at Rick’s (Rich Cash, I believe). I’ll add to these concerns…

    I don’t know about other states, but here in Indiana, it was ruled– last year or before — that a person may not defend themselves, their home, and/or family when the police bust in in the middle of the night without a warrant. Local police precincts, chiefs, and SHERIFFS said this was unconstitutional as well as unsafe for officers, so wouldn’t be doing any warrant-less entries, regardless of the new power to do so.

    Now, after reading the linked story on Homeland Security and the ammunition contracts, I just couldn’t help but hear CCR’s “Run Through the Jungle” playing in the background… “Two hundred million guns are loaded… Satan cries “take aim!”.

    States will have to do more than resurrect bullion (which has been proposed by some in Indiana state government, btw). Militias will have to be revived as well.

    Good points made by all. Enjoy the remainder of your NYC visit, Rick!

    • Rich May 22, 2012, 4:49 pm

      DHS flak jackets appeared sporadically on Amtrak trains all hours with visual flashlight inspections of baggage and overhead compartments.
      In just a few major urban stations like Chicago, NYC and DC there were bomb sniffer dogs checking trash bins and bags.
      TSA was nowhere to be seen, thus explaining with the cheapest travel costs, the full trains.
      As my late father, awarded pistol marksman, WWII War Hero and 32nd Degree Mason buried in the National Cemetery used to say:
      200 M armed Americans guarantee civility…

    • Benjamin May 22, 2012, 7:09 pm

      Hi, Rich! I hope you didn’t take my CCR reference as meaning _we_ are the devil taking aim. ‘Cause now that I look at it, it kinda, sorta does look like I said that!

      Anyway, what you reported reminds me of what Chicago has been like, what with the recent NATO summit and all. Anywhere there’s lots of people, there They are, automatically regarding us as the threat. I’ve no idea what the NATO protests were like, but in the weeks leading up to the summit, that is all the media talked about… the concerns of security planners and the certainty that protesters would be causing problems.

Do you want up-to-the-minute technical analysis and forecasts for your favorite stocks, commodities, ETFs? Join our Take Request Session on October 6th!

No, I'm not Interested

Do you want up-to-the-minute technical analysis and forecasts for your favorite stocks, commodities, ETFs? Join our Take Request Session on September 15th!

No, I'm not Interested