What Brazen Deception Will the Fed Try Next?

I’ve had my doubts that Quantitative Easing would ever be throttled back, even asserting here several times that this was about as likely as a Martian invasion. However, it would now appear that at least some nominal change in Fed policy is nigh.  For one, the news media have unleashed a torrent of ostensibly bullish recovery data that, even if it is believed by no one save editorialists, economists and Obama spinmeisters, is sufficient to provide PR cover for just a smidgen of tightening. And for two, Fed policymakers themselves have been promiscuously encouraging talk of tightening for about the last two years — talking their book, as it were.

Assuming the momentous, long-awaited announcement comes this week, we shouldn’t be surprised, if the central bank’s oh-so-clever expectations managers propose some alternative to QE that smacks of…more easing.  Suppose, for instance, that the Fed announces a reduction in the amount of ginned-up money it uses each month to mop up unwanted Treasury and mortgage debt, from $85 billion to $60 billion. If this portentous shift were to be accompanied by, say, a reduction in the amount of interest the Fed pays on banks’ excess reserves, think of how eager the banks would be to recoup all that lost, risk-free income. Why, they might even have to crank up their own printing presses with promotional lending offers that would make today’s “zero percent-loans-for-18-months!” specials look like usury.

Whatever the Fed does, its actions will be geared, as always, toward pumping up home prices and the stock market. What do you foresee, readers?

  • Andrew Gutterman December 22, 2013, 8:22 pm

    Gary,

    Maybe this chart from FRED will explain the conundrum:

    http://www.booktrakker.com/Economy/Debt_GDP.jpg

    Total debt divided by total real GDP, or how much debt it takes to produce $1 of real GDP.

    How long can this go on?

  • Duane December 21, 2013, 10:48 pm

    Has anyone heard about this story? Goes to Ricks assertion of extreme fudging of economic data (current GDP numbers). Original article was published the the Financial times here on April 21st http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/52d23fa6-aa98-11e2-bc0d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RIlVz8DL (sign up required to read the original). Can also be read in full copy on several websites by looking up the title “Data shift to lift US economy 3%” on your favorite search engine.

    &&&&&&

    Unfortunately, because of the ‘Financial Times’ aggressive, in-your-face sales tactics, the link you’ve furnished doesn’t work.
    RA

    • Duane December 23, 2013, 4:23 pm

      They will allow free registration by giving them an e-mail which entitles you to 8 free articles a month. It is a pretty solid publication overall and IMO gives a much better picture of the global economy than any of the poor US business rag excuses like WSJ and (to a lesser extent) IBD. The article basically states that the Govt., beginning in July , adds a full 3% to GDP for intangibles (effectively a made up number) to boost perception. So effectively you could have a contraction and they would be putting out positive numbers for public consumption. The hidden lies are getting stranger and I find it curious that to get the truth about it, one must look to a foreign (and reputable) financial publication. I have only heard one talk show here mention it and after researching the article and looking up the title it has been mentioned on some obscure economics blogs but people overlook it at their peril. This is outright fraud to sell the sheeple on the idea of taking on more debt/risk on the erroneous assumption that things are rapidly improving when they are clearly not.

  • DK December 21, 2013, 6:32 am
  • gary leibowitz December 21, 2013, 4:55 am

    http://www.businessinsider.com/facts-about-debt-and-deficits-2013-10

    A simplified version of how debt and GDP work. The actual future ratio is also discussed and the actual deficit as a percentage of GDP is shrinking fast. it doesn’t sugar coat our future especially if we ignore social entitlements.

    Oh yeah, just read that consumer spending on new vehicles is expected to hit an all-time record this year. Fits right in with your notion that debt to GDP has killed the economy.

    B-A-N-N-E -D

    &&&&&

    That is not, in fact, my notion, Gary. To make my point for the umpteenth time: It is requiring steeply increasing quantities of debt to sustain even the mere illusion of economic growth. RA

    • Redwilldanaher December 23, 2013, 5:29 am

      That garbage was written by discredited fraud Henry Blodget. Business Insider is known to spew dubious leftist econotrash. I will stick with Stockman.

      In the end they it will treat it like it’s all Monopoly money and that no amount of debt matters. They’re doing that already quite obviously. It won’t matter until it does and then it’s game over in a heartbeat.

  • Silver Surfer December 20, 2013, 9:04 am

    Feb gold target @ 1182.60, A=1433.70, Aug. 28th

  • Silver Surfer December 20, 2013, 8:25 am

    have a target on SPY of 182.40
    gold should be above $ 1200 on Dec. 26th expiration…
    over 7,000 puts @ the 1200 strike, da boyz like 2 rip off the option buyers’ faces on expiry
    after that…
    Rick been very accurate on gold

  • Jason S December 20, 2013, 6:50 am

    Can anyone answer for me why when the Fed hinted at tapering a couple months ago the market swooned by 6% in two days but now that they actually do taper the market soars? You couple this crap with it snowing in Egypt and I think the end of the world is nigh.

    Every day is truly becoming opposite day.

  • Robert December 20, 2013, 6:15 am

    I bought my first ounce of Gold in 2003 – it was $320, and required a larger percentage of my net income at the time to make the purchase than buying an ounce of Gold today, over 10 years later.

    Gold is cheaper now than it was in 2003.

    Everything being discussed by all of you above is narrative. Reality is what exists when the narrative has been stripped down to its most elemental factors and scrutinized within the framework of pure reason.

    And reason demonstrates that Gold is cheaper today than it was in 2003.

    This price trend may continue, no doubt about that- underestimate the zealotry of momemtum chasers at your own risk. But to ignore the value proposition in favor of the posssibility of still lower prices means you may miss the entire sale when you finally show up at the sale to make your purchase and find that the inventory on the shelf is long gone…

    Beware voice that whispers in your ear “If it is low today, then it will probably be lower tomorrow”, for this is the voice of greed, and we all know how the market treats greed…

    I can once again use my residual net income to aquire a full ounce of Gold per month for the first time since 2003. I am personally ECSTATIC about that.

    I am saving more than I have in YEARS, while still being able to maintain my family’s standard of living.

    I hope the momo’s drive Gold all the way back down to $300, quite frankly. Sell the futures right into the dirt, and put every miner out of business along the way.

    As long as the credit supply is increasing, I will buy this trend for as long (and as low) as they want to push it.

    • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 21, 2013, 10:12 pm

      I do not agree with you, robert.

      for IF (and I say IF, since it is a big IF, and the source of much debate on this site, re huge-deflation/hyper-inflation argument), the huge-deflation hits hard and bad, worldwide (as I think it will), gold price will deflate hugely, along with everything else, to pay down the already much bigger, world debt, and it’s interest load.

      however, I do agree with you on 1 thing, conceptually— in that, everyone that has any store of wealth saved, should have it in hand (and not trust banks, especially the big ones); and, a diversity of saved on hand instruments, if you have enough savings, should be in physical dollars, silver coins, and maybe some gold coins, if you are rich enough. and of course, plenty of canned food stored cooly, guns and tons of ammo, to protect it all, and your family. for what’s acoming for sure, IMO, for all worldwide, not just the ussa, is something out of a steve king disaster novel, like ‘the stand.’

  • VegasBob December 20, 2013, 4:24 am

    The reason the government and the politicians continuously lie and get away with it is actually very simple. People don’t really want to know the truth.

    Here is a quote that explains it perfectly:

    “…nobody can stand truth if it is told to him. Truth can be tolerated only if you discover it yourself because then, the pride of discovery makes the truth palatable.”
    -Fritz Perls

  • Gary leibowitz December 20, 2013, 3:13 am

    If only you could shut out the market for the last 5 years. Not so easy even with your cheerleaders.

    GDP and debt and explosive easy credit. you figure it out.

  • Gary leibowitz December 20, 2013, 3:05 am

    I tried answering the debt GDP dynamics but got thrown down. I wonder what those economists are smoking that see close to 3 percent growth in the near future. Guess they got their degree from Zimbabwe. Credit expansion exploded in the 80s you can’t use old theories. Personal borrowing is on again expanding. You. ant have deflation with that scenario. You can expand GDP however. It has Been this way for decades.

    Call any reference to higher GDP in the future as a hoax since it is impossible. Like tapering.

  • isjosa1 December 19, 2013, 6:22 pm

    rick

    have you ever thought that contracting money / deflation will cause the dow to rise to way higher than most expect ?

    regards

    &&&&&

    No, I have never considered that. Rather, I have written that there are NO good investment opportunities in a deflation, only the daunting task of protecting one’s assets against shrinkage and deleveraging. To understand this, watch Buffett as he buys railroads and the food chain (Heinz) while ignoring the ‘opportunities’ that have so captivated private equity funds. In the end, they will appear stupid (and broke), Buffett smart.
    RA

  • Rich December 19, 2013, 5:34 pm

    Aloha All

    Bot some QQQ puts at the previous lows of the day on excessively bullish sentiment on overvalued ETF/Index Options expecting Santa Rally

    http://www.ise.com/market-data/isee-index/

    Happy Holidays

  • mava December 19, 2013, 8:11 am

    I thought I saw it in the evening news, – they are going to taper. At least a bit.

    Gary, I understand you cannot reply, but I don’t think your logic is solid. It seems solid, but “seems” is not “is”.

    Here is why, anytime a magician can address the crows on the subject of magic itself, and say exactly what you have said. He can finish by saying…:

    “As you can see, the hat is flying… holding steady in the air. As well, you all can see that there are more and more men amongst you without a hat, because their hats are floating above the podium behind me. A broken record by me but one that is ignored when it should be on everyone’s mind. But wait, this can’t happen since the definition of a gravity as something not under the control of human mind could never allow for any flying hats. Now I see why everyone insists it’s all faked! Got it.”

    You see? The magician would use exactly the same method of argument as you did right now, yet we would never trust the magician! Or should we? He seemingly has the proof!

    What good is the solid law or a long standing definition if it can be seemingly disproved even for a moment?

    I’ll tell you what: Let Bernanke the Helicopter hold it for next 100 years. If he does that, I will believe it. But until then, he is only an annoying fly on my windshield.

  • Troll December 19, 2013, 4:49 am

    If we pride ourselves in being a free and democratic society (or demanding that we should be as such) everyone should be able to state their opinion. By blockading certain voices, no matter if they are right or wrong or misled (whatever you want to call it) we lose a little bit of that freedom. I don’t often agree with what Gary has to say any more than I agree with Red or SUPERSPIC or DK. And, they totally within their right to disagree with me. The point is, the stock market and the world is made up of all kinds of different opinions. This should be a forum for those differences. And taking Gary or SUPERSPIK or whoever out of the equation, well we lose a little bit of our own freedom.

    &&&&&&

    This forum isn’t a democracy, I do not care about your ‘freedom,’ nor do I fancy being the enabler of some narcissist who gets his rocks off provoking arguments in here. RA

    • mario cavolo December 19, 2013, 6:32 am

      Troll, this is not personal so don’t take it that way.

      This “freedom” ideal bouncing around America is a bad joke and an illusion. Living in China, I would be the first to question what real freedom really is.

      I’m thinking that in today’s world a person such as Rick or any other individual is “free” to put up their own business, their own board with the freedom to have their own guidelines. If a person doesn’t like it or want to be there, they are free to start their own board. This IS Rick’s board, eh? He’s “free” to organize and run it any damn way he pleases which would mean that what you suggest takes away his freedom, and since its his board at his time and expense and effort and risk, that obviously ain’t right.

      It reminds me of when I was a member of Toastmasters 30 years ago, the LAST all male club on the planet, in Scottsdale Arizona. We thoroughly enjoyed the men’s camaraderie and it was in our charter that we were an all male club, yet we were politically forced to allow a woman to join, thus ruined. And yes it was ruined and yes our freedom to do what we want was taken away; then there’s the Boy Scouts being forced to allow a girl to join and countless other similar uniquely American stories. Now the Boy Scouts are no longer “boys”. I regard such as American hypocritical lunacy. So be it.

      At Tumblr, I set up an author site. At Tumblr, you set “posting guidelines” for anyone who might like to submit a post. Am I supposed to let what I “own” at my effort and expense become a free for all that is off my original purpose? Of course not.

      Gary has blinders on and I don’t know why nor does it much matter, his comments are confusing to most of us here to say the least. He’s right about the stock market going up and related stats and why and a few other things, yet he amazingly completely ignores the other stats and impacts on society which are horrifying at best. “Wooha corporate earnings, cash and stock shares are doing great while 150 million middle class folks are on ten years of flat wages with 60 MILLION of them on govt social aid.”, comes to my mind as the “data points” that seem to be far away in his never never land. Rick is tired of it, of people who stupidly write here continuously ignoring the blatant well-evidenced flouting of law, the dismantling of what America was, at its core, at the banking and govt level. Some of the most intelligent, successful and insightful minds in the world are AGHAST at what they are witnessing and have written about it. The situation is so bad that even after being put out on the table in plain sight, STILL nothing changes. So I can’t say I blame Rick for his fatigue toward folks like Gary. Only a few categories of folks can ignore the multitude of horrors taking place hand in hand with the positive things that are going on: 1. genuinely naive, 2. brainwashed 3. one of them.

      I come here and confidently point out with conviction AND evidence that there are many strong economic trends and indicators, that they should be viewed in more of a global perspective rather than too U.S. centric, but I do not ignore the horrors on the other side of any positive things happening. And right now on planet earth, the domestic U.S. and Europe are mostly declining and fighting against decline while Asia led by China is improving and growing and expanding. There is ZERO personal opinion or nationalism or politics in that statement by me. It is nothing more or less than a framework definition of the macro state of global economic affairs. I don’t love it, hate it, care about it or view it in political terms. I’m as afraid of the American govt as I am of the Chinese govt, of what either do, are doing, might do. Things could turn out nicely or go to hell in this life, so I do my best to apply my intelligence and abilities where I am, yet with healthy distrust and skepticism and wariness, for plenty of reasons. If the U.S. govt or the Chinese govt makes choices that screw with my life, there is pretty much zip I can do about it.

      Enough rant for now, Mario

      • Troll December 20, 2013, 1:56 am

        Mario, you are, and have always been, a voice of reason.

      • Redwilldanaher December 20, 2013, 2:34 am

        Nice work Mario.

    • DK December 19, 2013, 6:34 am

      Awesome, Rick.

    • Troll December 19, 2013, 6:49 am

      Argument is part of the stock market. I will leave it at that.

    • gary leibowitz December 21, 2013, 5:12 am

      J.D. Power and strategic partner LMC Automotive have released their final new-vehicle sales and production forecast for 2013, and they expect December sales to rise 4% over the same month in 2012, with an average transaction price of $30,500–a $500 increase per vehicle over last December. According to the forecast, consumers will spend more than $34 billion on new vehicles in December of 2013, a new record for the month thanks to higher average transaction prices and continued strong retail sales.

      “Retail sales in 2013 are expected to reach 12.8 million, with consumer spending reaching a record $375 billion–a $40 billion increase from 2012,” said John Humphrey, senior vice president of the global automotive practice at J.D. Power.

      This on faked GDP numbers. All time record month, December, and all-time record year.

      Live and Learn.

      But this will never see the light of day. Banned.

      Too bad you can’t ban wall street. you have certainly ignored it.

  • Gary leibowitz December 18, 2013, 11:18 pm

    Ban me and the market for 5 years but stop your pathetic excuses. The world us being forced to perpetrate a lie because you discovers an absolute truism on debt credit deflation

    Drown me our and for heavens sake don’t look at the market earnings or the economic data points

    Taper? Impossible! And so it goes

  • mario cavolo December 18, 2013, 2:06 pm

    Hey Rick, this might be called the straw that breaks the camel’s back re Bitcoin.

    According to Chinese news reports, the People’s Bank of China, the central bank, met Monday with more than 10 of the country’s biggest third-party payment processing companies, ordering them to stop all transactions involving digital currencies. Alibaba’s Alipay service, the country’s biggest processor of online transactions, was among the companies represented at the meeting, according to the reports……and….China’s biggest Bitcoin exchange was forced to stop accepting deposits in the Chinese currency on Wednesday…finally, keeping in mind that a couple of years back they had shut down Tencent QQ’s currency system because it got too huge…

    Bitcoin doing its predictable swan dive today…we’ll see what’s next….

    Cheers, Mario

  • C.C. December 17, 2013, 8:38 pm

    Encouraging to see many observing the increasing link between U.S. foreign policy (blunders) and the potential for economic disaster in the U.S. We here tend to be highly U.S.-centric in our views of what is, and what is to come. Perhaps $USD global hegemonic dominance has something to do with that, who knows. What’s on my radar however, has to do with Russian rocket-forces redeployment, newfound Chinese naval moxie – in their own backyard no less, and somewhat hidden from media scrutiny, upcoming treaty agreements like the Trans Pacific Partnership – which among other things, serve to ‘box in’ any notion of another major currency competing for global trade with the $U.S. hegemon.

    Somehow though, my mind’s eye tells me a shift has already begun and like hungry wolves, our new-old enemies know it. I look for rising foreign policy tensions and ‘entanglements’ to be much more a dominant theme and influence of U.S. economic outcomes in the year ahead. After all, isn’t it what no one is paying attention to – or blows off as insignificant, that winds up being the open palm to the chin?

  • Gary leibowitz December 17, 2013, 7:27 pm

    First industrial production surges And now home builders confidence. An 8 year high. Yet talk of an imminent crash is back. No one believes this economy is gaining speed? Really? Deception? To fake such high expectations? Oh well, I guess I am not getting thru.

    I am the sole voice of reason, or the only one being deceived.

    Crash coming soon ? Not likely. More evidence of a recovering economy? If everyone here is correct that it is all a deception than next quarter earnings will reflect that. If that is your thinking than in a strange way I can see why you would load up on crash protection.

    • Gary leibowitz December 17, 2013, 7:50 pm

      Has anyone addressed these data points, or do we continue to pretend its right after the crash? How can you discuss fed policy or the economy without opening the door outside? Dissect the data or prove its misleading, but don’t ignore it.

      How’s my long standing notion that given time and low rates the fed allows the economy to revert back to its normal pace. If the last 4 months of data and earnings doesn’t show you where we are than what will?

      The problem I see concerning the market is interest rates rising and so too defaults. A broken record by me but one that is ignored when it should be on everyone’s mind. But wait, this can’t happen since the definition of a debt burden this large could never allow for accelerated economic activity. Now I see why everyone insists it’s all faked! Got it.

      • Andrew Gutterman December 18, 2013, 12:40 am

        Gary,

        This is a website I go to when I want to find out how the economy is really doing:

        http://www.consumerindexes.com/index.html

        Down near the bottom they analyze each GNP report, in some detail. It isn’t pretty.

        As for low rates, that is a sign of slow growth. And slow growth is what we’ve had for four years.

        Andy

      • John Jay December 18, 2013, 6:39 pm

        Andy,
        In an economic system where inflating prices and shrinking package size are the norm.

        In an economic system where the Fed assumes a State of the Art car today is so much better than a SOTA car from yesterday that price increases are not “Inflation”.

        In an economic system where mortgage payments have not been made for 3 years and the bank does not show it as in default.

        In an economic system where a person losing one well paid job and then taking on three poorly paid jobs means two jobs have been created.

        In an economic system where 200% or 300% increases in food and energy prices are ignored as “Volitile”.

        In an economic system where….. you can fill in the blank.

        In this economic system you can ignore any numbers the Government “Releases” as contrived, misleading, and very dry humor at best.

        To put it in an aircraft context, if your instruments say you are gaining altitude, but the tennis ball on a string in the cockpit is plastered on your windshield,
        I would trust the simple tennis ball indicator.

      • Gary leibowitz December 19, 2013, 12:30 am

        And yet with that argument we have to be in another Great Depression but we aren t. Either you are over emphasizing the problem or you under emphasize the positives coming out of such a system. If everyone’s model on how the economy is working is correct than there should be no taper, no economic growth, no earnings and jobs and retail sales, yet even you can read the daily reports.

        If this blog can’t include real data and market reaction, such as the historic taper You really should question you objectivity. Not my views or assumption that you aRe ignoring.

      • redwilldanaher December 19, 2013, 2:41 am

        That’s where you’ve tripped up JJ. You’re relying on old world Newtonian physics! Get with the times friend! What we got here fellas is what they call string theory, as in string enough $hI@e together and repeat it enough so that it becomes accepted reality. If that doesn’t work, change the rules, break the law, make up some other crap and pipe that in 1080p…

      • John Jay December 19, 2013, 7:52 am

        Red,
        True enough, but while Ben and friends use String Theory to explain away that tennis ball plastered to the windshield, they all have Golden Parachutes at the ready.
        And we don’t!

      • Gary leibowitz December 20, 2013, 5:45 pm

        Ban me.

        &&&&

        Yes, it’s come to that. I ask you to do a little research and report back, and you simply blather on, ignoring my request. You have become too, too tiresome. Two or three years away from this forum will do you some good, Gary. Anyone who posts here is much as you do is most surely in need of a real life.
        RA

      • redwilldanaher December 20, 2013, 6:41 pm

        Stop the spewing and start answering the many questions that have been asked of you. Or will this just be one more week of evasion????

        ZH: As a result many are wondering just where this “revised” consumption came from. The answer is below: of the $15 billion revised increase in annualized spending, 60% was for healthcare, and another 27% was due to purchases of gasoline. The third largest upward revision: recreation services. On the flip side, the biggest revision detractors: transportation services and housing and utilities.

        In other words, the BEA thought long and hard what it could revise and decided on the following: in Q3 the US economy was revised to the strongest since 2011 because Americans, it would appear, were gassing up more to visit (and pay) their doctor, and then going to the movies.

      • Rick Ackerman December 21, 2013, 3:25 am

        Red Will: See my response to Jason’s comments (above). I am trying to encourage everyone in here to avoid getting drawn in or provoked by Gary, should one of his posts slip past my filter.

      • redwilldanaher December 21, 2013, 3:25 pm

        Ok, gotya.

        Too bad it had to come to that. Gary’s technicals related comments were relevant but the mischaracterizations and omissions etc. seem to have worsened the higher the indices climb.

        &&&&&&

        I’ve asked Gary to give it a rest. Nothing personal — he seems line a pretty decent guy — but his posts have become maddening, repetitious and gratuitously provocative. Just for old time’s sake, however, and in keeping with the holiday spirit, I’ve let a few of his posts that I’d withheld slip through the sluice gate.
        RA

      • Jason S December 20, 2013, 8:03 pm

        Gary, based on the BEA’s report the big driver of the increase was inventory build up. If they are able to sell that inventory quickly then I agree with you that the GDP numbers are better than expected and the economy (or at least the part that doesn’t reflect those who are getting pinched) is doing better. If they cant sell the increased inventory then we will likely see weaker GDP numbers ahead as those inventories linger and are written off. Here is the excerpt from the BEA report:

        The change in real private inventories added 1.67 percentage points to the third-quarter change in
        real GDP, after adding 0.41 percentage point to the second-quarter change. Private businesses increased
        inventories $115.7 billion in the third quarter, following increases of $56.6 billion in the second quarter
        and $42.2 billion in the first.

        Real final sales of domestic product — GDP less change in private inventories — increased 2.5
        percent in the third quarter, compared with an increase of 2.1 percent in the second.

        I also looked at real consumption which was stronger than expected. But looking at the BEA income data from 12/6 it shows a contraction. So this consumption is debt fueled. Additionally the increase in real GDP is somewhat fudged based on the GDP deflator (CPI) being manipulated down. I say that this is faked data based on people whom I speak with all over the country who say their expenses are increasing more than the 1.9% the Govt. says they are. Also looking at Shadowstats, if you compute the CPI as they did back in the 80’s then inflation is around 8%. If this were used then real GDP would still be negative. Here is the BEA data on income:

        Personal income decreased $10.8 billion, or 0.1 percent, and disposable personal income (DPI) decreased
        $23.6 billion, or 0.2 percent, in October, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

        &&&&&

        Very informative and to-the-point, Jason. Thanks. But please be aware that I’m going to start deleting posts that address things Gary has written. (Some of his posts are still getting through, presumably because my WordPress filter is so wretchedly bad.) RA

      • Gary leibowitz December 21, 2013, 2:59 am

        Thank you for the breakdown. Personal borrowing is going up and that has always been the driver of expansion. The inventory to sales is not going up. That implies they are still lean. All the other dat points seem to confirm or support this number. Surely economists would be able to dissect this report and duly announce the shortfalls. The final decision on just how well we are doing would be holiday sales. That places squarely just how much money consumers are willing to spend.

        I also see this as a possible mini cycle peak. We do not have long to wait for the answer. I would just like to dispel the notion that it is impossible to see GDP expansion based on debt alone. I also agree wages have got to rise higher than inflation for any talk of sustainable growth.

      • Rick Ackerman December 18, 2013, 10:20 pm

        Gary: I am going to embargo any further posts from you until you have researched and reported on the relationship between debt and GDP growth. [I see that you attempted to post here twice since this message went up. Although I censored those posts as promised, I do understand that bloviating, misquoting others and provoking arguments where none exist is what you live for, and so I’m nominally okay with it (even though I will continue to black out your posts until you’ve complied with my request.) ]

        When I wrote on the topic of Debt vs GDP Growth for Barron’s about 15 years ago, one could correlate $2.50 of new debt to each dollar’s worth of GDP growth at the margin. That ratio looked horrific at the time, but it’s only because I lacked the imagine to foresee how truly horrific it was to become. The $2.50 figure compared with a postwar low of about 54 cents to create a dollar’s worth of economic growth.

        What is the current ratio? What is the historical relationship, going back to the early 1900s? These are absolutely crucial data that you will need to provide before I let you resume bloviating here and provoking needless, stupid arguments just for sport. It’s only fair. The statistic that I have asked you to research, and to comprehend, is the best one I know of to demonstrate that, economically speaking, things have been getting fundamentally worse for the last 65 years. When you’ve done as I’ve asked, I’ll also expect some commentary from you on exactly why it doesn’t matter if our hot-air-and-fraud-driven, consumption-and-debt-based crap economy eventually requires $50 of new debt to generate a dollar’s worth of GDP growth.

      • Redwilldanaher December 19, 2013, 4:09 am

        Great point of focus, shouldn’t be difficult for ole Gary to pull off. I’ve read dozens of pieces on the decreasing marginal return on new debt.

      • Rich December 19, 2013, 5:37 pm

        Hi Rick

        Hope you don’t mind if I give Gary a helping hand

        http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MZMV?cid=32242

        Regards*Rich

        &&&&&&

        Your chart shows money velocity, a phenomenon that not one person in fifty million truly understands. Even your source, the St. Louis Fed, seems not to know what to say about it. Their explanation talks about money demand for consumer transactions, but not about the ‘liquidity preference’ aspect of money velocity that is crucial to an understanding of deflation and the deflationary mindset. RA

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 19, 2013, 8:34 pm

        Just curious Rick but when you mention “liquidity preference” are you referring to cash versus credit transactions?

        &&&&&&

        The preference is for sitting on cash rather than treating it as a hot potato that must be constantly turned over to maximize gains from leveraging. When liquidity preference is low, it implies that the feather merchants are taking each new dollar in circulation and quickly creating perhaps 15-20 new dollars from it by ‘leveraging it out’. RA

      • Andrew Gutterman December 19, 2013, 9:47 pm

        If you can get through this, you “might” have a better understanding. I almost always look to Hazlitt for explanations of money.

        http://mises.org/daily/2916

        Somewhere he has a simpler explanation.

        Andy

      • redwilldanaher December 19, 2013, 2:36 am

        Why is the Fraud injecting over $1 tril if everything is incredible awesome wonderful extradorinary?

        I didn’t think it was geometrically possible but you’ve managed to sharpen obtuseness to a point.

      • redwilldanaher December 20, 2013, 1:33 am

        Home sales tumble, jobless claims at near nine-month high…

        Treasury to Max Out Borrowing by February…

        Just a few more headlines of a certain kind from Drudge.

      • redwilldanaher December 20, 2013, 4:15 am
      • DK December 20, 2013, 8:06 am

        RWD – labor participation telling us 6.2M not being counted, 65.5% at 2009 levels, puts unemployment north of 10.5%

      • DK December 20, 2013, 8:07 am
      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 19, 2013, 2:37 am

        gary, you are the man. the man. the man.

        with no honor, no nothing, just a scum-sucking bottom-dweller,
        willing to lick anyone’s boots at a moment’s notice, willing to crawl as told.

        excellent. for you are the perfect representation, of the modern day u.s.a.

        I congratulate you. so keep up the hard work. of hammering all here, daily, that–

        left is right, north is south, cold is heat, betray is trust, hate is love, truth are lies.

        so go go go, gary!!! you is a fuuukin genius!! go for it. since, you are… entertaining…

        and entertainment is all, nowadays, isn’t it? and you are the al jolson, of this site. do it.

      • Rick Ackerman December 19, 2013, 3:02 am

        We won’t have Gary to kick around until I’ve heard from him on Debt vs GDP Growth. [See above.]

      • Andrew Gutterman December 19, 2013, 4:55 pm

        Rick,

        Not just Gary. Gary is at least civil.

        One of the reasons I come here and post is I’m not going to get involved in name calling and other pursuits of illiterate people. Its a CIVIL group. So there is someone else that needs to go.

        Thanks,

        Andy

        &&&&&

        True, Gary is at least civil. And yes, Patagonia will need to clean up his act if I’m going to allow him to continue to post here.
        RA

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 20, 2013, 12:15 am

        andrew and jason,
        I have already explained above, my modus operandi.

        if someone insults me first, as both troll and mario did, by calling me an idiot,

        then, I pay them back, tenfold. It’s my nature.

        yet, I do know some of you sensitive-types, find this horripilating, so–avoid my posts.

        however, gentlemen, I do recommend, you get much tougher, and muy pronto.

        for what’s coming your way, soon, will make hitler’s germany, seem like a picnic.

        don’t believe me, I am exaggerating? well… why don’t you just wait and see, gringos.

        &&&&&&

        A relative picnic? Not to us Jews.
        RA

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 21, 2013, 11:17 pm

        Ackerman, what I meant is, that, the concentration-encamped Jews at least had a dream of freedom, a dream of hope — that someone, from another country, would come, and free them. so, their souls held on, and on, despite all; thus, some of them, eventually, were freed, due to that hope, IMO, that they held.

        But the world that I see coming, not far away, is a world, in which there is no hope.
        as one website calls it, it’s a ‘prison planet’. for all is monitored, observed, tortured, destroyed, all that does not fit in–therefore, no escape.

        but then again, there are– ‘the hunger games’, to watch, every year… ha.

      • Gary leibowitz December 20, 2013, 1:36 am

        A test? Here is one. How do you explain an increase in GDP after the 5th year of increased massive spending. Economists are not in agreement with a fixed amount. The 40s had a very high ratio. In fact some economists are expecting close to 3 percent. You an economist? The fed has never forced rates to stay low with direct bond purchase yet YOU know what economists don’t.
        Explain why we are just now showing personal borrowing pick up and how it will NOT impact GDP. Just explain away the slew of evidence that we are in better shape today than at any time in past 5 years. All economists consensus is for higher GDP do they not understand the basics.

        We have had high GDP figures since the degradation of the middle class, ala 1982 on. Credit has been replacing cash In all that time and borrowing has always increased yet we still managed to accelerate thpe GDP. So I guess the fact that today we are borrowing at a high rate should not affect future GDP.

        The taper and budget is helping reduce debt load, yet that also shouldn’t be taken into Account. Increased economic activity and borrowing in a low interest rate environment has no affect on GDP?

        I guess now I can u understand why. You believe everyone is lying about such data points. To accept current data would HAVE to abolish your iron clad definition. The simple notion that the Fed is a fairly new established entity along with another new entity of credit explosion from 1982 on, leaves you totally convinced that doesn’t change old established rules. Gotcha. Yet here we are with earnings ramping up to all time best figures 5 years after the supposed debt implosion. How in the world can that be. It can’t therefore it’s all a lie.

        Finally, I never stated that debt will not overtake us. I just don’t believe it can happen in low inflation scenario. As long as personal credit can expand and lenders don’t panic it can and will improve GDP.

        Not my figures but ones from economists. They predict higher GDP. So far MY predictions are panning out while yours have already been proven wrong. Increased borrowing At still low rates has got to help.

        I can include an article that has. Dry similar. Jews if you like. Or you can just wait and see what happens.

      • Gary leibowitz December 20, 2013, 3:58 am

        A test? Here is one. How do you explain an increase in GDP after the 5th year of increased massive spending. Economists are not in agreement with a fixed amount. The 40s had a very high ratio. In fact some economists are expecting close to 3 percent. You an economist? The fed has never forced rates to stay low with direct bond purchase yet YOU know what economists don’t.
        Explain why we are just now showing personal borrowing pick up and how it will NOT impact GDP. Just explain away the slew of evidence that we are in better shape today than at any time in past 5 years. All economists consensus is for higher GDP do they not understand the basics.

        We have had high GDP figures since the degradation of the middle class, ala 1982 on. Credit has been replacing cash In all that time and borrowing has always increased yet we still managed to accelerate thpe GDP. So I guess the fact that today we are borrowing at a high rate should not affect future GDP.

        The taper and budget is helping reduce debt load, yet that also shouldn’t be taken into Account. Increased economic activity and borrowing in a low interest rate environment has no affect on GDP?

        I guess now I can u understand why. You believe everyone is lying about such data points. To accept current data would HAVE to abolish your iron clad definition. The simple notion that the Fed is a fairly new established entity along with another new entity of credit explosion from 1982 on, leaves you totally convinced that doesn’t change old established rules. Gotcha. Yet here we are with earnings ramping up to all time best figures 5 years after the supposed debt implosion. How in the world can that be. It can’t therefore it’s all a lie.

        Finally, I never stated that debt will not overtake us. I just don’t believe it can happen in low inflation scenario. As long as personal credit can expand and lenders don’t panic it can and will improve GDP.

        Not my figures but ones from economists. They predict higher GDP. So far MY predictions are panning out while yours have already been proven wrong. Increased borrowing At still low rates what happens?

        My 5th try to post. How you put the world on hold for 5 years takes imagination

        Typing on iPhone. Not the beat way to respond

      • Jason S December 19, 2013, 7:46 pm

        AAAAHHHHH! Research basic sentence structure and proper uses of punctuation! Your terrible grammar is annoying me!

      • Jason S December 19, 2013, 7:47 pm

        This was for patagoniaSuperspic.

      • mario cavolo December 19, 2013, 6:47 am

        Gary, shove your “data points” until you’re willing to start looking at the basket of ALL of them, not cherry-picked, and their impact on society, on people, on the real world, on the dismantling and flouting of law that has taken place by the oligarchs and which remains ignored and ongoing.

        For example, you can’t possibly be wanting any of us to be happy about a recent “uptick” in wages after they’ve been flat for ten years, more and more of them on social welfare, while corporate profits and cash on hand and executive salaries are soaring at record highs?

        Why would anyone even consider pointing out that state of affairs as “good news”? It points out how incredibly BAD things are, that America is no longer America, it is now a split country, worse than ever of have’s and have not’s, and there are endless intelligent articles with evidence clearly identifying it.

        Why don’t you try boning up on and using the words “relatively speaking”, let’s see where that leads…

  • Andrew Gutterman December 17, 2013, 3:39 pm

    Two comments.

    1. The FED can print Credit only. It cannot print actual money, to hand out to the masses. Only the Treasury can do that. the Treasury is part of the government, the FED is a private bank that somehow we elected to control our credit.

    So all the FED can do is expand their balance sheet in the vain hope that banks will lend this money out to expand the economy. They aren’t doing that so it has to go somewhere, right now its going into the market. Can this go on forever? Is perpetual motion real?

    2. Whenever I read forums like this I always think of Hamilton Bolton.

    Deflation requires a precondition: a major societal buildup in the extension of credit (and its flip side, the assumption of debt).

    Has the United States met that precondition?
    Well, consider that total credit market debt as a percent of U.S. gross domestic product was
    •280 percent in 1929 at the start of the Great Depression
    •380 percent in 2008

    The current build-up of credit goes far beyond major –it’s unprecedented.

    It’s been rising steadily for 60 years. The slope literally looks like the side of a steep mountain.

    (It peaked at about 375% in 2008 and has been slightly declining since, to about 340%, looks like another possible upturn is in the works)
    http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/charter.exe/var/togdp-totalcreditdebt+1952+2013+0+0+0+290+545++0

    Bank credit and Elliott wave expert Hamilton Bolton studied every major depression in the U.S. In 1957, he made this observation:

    All were set off by a deflation of excess credit. This was the one factor in common…the signs were visible many months, and in some cases years, in advance. None was ever quite like the last, so that the public was always fooled thereby.

    A deflationary crash is characterized in part by a persistent, sustained, deep, general decline in people’s desire and ability to lend and borrow…

    The U.S. has experienced two major deflationary depressions, which lasted from 1835 to 1842 and from 1929 to 1932 respectively. Each one followed a period of substantial credit expansion. Credit expansion schemes have always ended in bust. The credit expansion scheme fostered by worldwide central banking…is the greatest ever.

    (Notice that the period separating these depressions is about 90 years from bottom to bottom? Three generations. The next bottom should be around 2022)

    So my conclusion is similar to Rick’s. We just don’t know when it will happen. I suspect it will creep in when we have thrown in the towel and given in to the perpetual motion theory of an endless, subpar expansion. But that’s just a guess.

    In the meantime….

    Don’t fight the FED.

    Andy

  • Cam Fitzgerald December 17, 2013, 9:32 am

    December 17, 2013 7:13 am GMT · The Dollar Index is near a threshold whose breach could have important implications not only for gold, but for stocks and bonds as well. ~~ RA
    ————–
    I am watching the same set up with interest. It looks like the dollar could go either way today which is never helpful when placing bets. So I usually look in on the Euro for some confirmation. Over there we can see we have had four tests at 1.38 since December 11th and all failed to break out. The Euro is bumping up against resistance and looking ready to decline which tells me the dollar will probably strengthen on FOMC news. That would seem to be consistent with no taper announcement during the current meeting.

    • Cam Fitzgerald December 19, 2013, 7:54 pm

      Dollar did rise as I suspected but it was BECAUSE of taper not in spite of it being announced during December. It was a good brief trade though. I still think the dollar will continue to decline in the bigger picture though.

      &&&&

      I agree, Cam. RA

  • Cam Fitzgerald December 17, 2013, 7:58 am

    Thanks for that update on coffee by the way, Rick. It is my canary in the coalmine. The price action when it bounced right off its 2008 lows was one of my reasons to begin thinking the commodity supercycle may actually resume despite its having been crushed for so many months. I don’t really believe we are recovering though so there would have to be another reason for a rise in resources. Fear trades are one. War prospects are another. Pushing of speculative forces back to the sector might be a third. It will probably be contrived to start with. If such super-cycles are usually expected to run for up to 30 years though it would seem strange to see this one concude just a dozen years into the game. It would be even stranger that commodities would fail at a time when currencies across the globe are this threatened as well. The prospect of a war evolving over undersea resources is also suggestive of price gains in the future. As you note, there are correlations to the whole commodity complex that suggest to us gold will not perform if coffee and other resources keep falling. I am in the camp that see that turning around early in the new year though and expect precious metals to finally start rising again. By default what that means is that I also believe policy will turn to inflationary levers at the same time stock markets are peaking and showing some instability implying the fear trades are also back on the table as are a renewed interest in hard assets. As others have noted, it will not take much movement in capital to send the metals soaring because that market is just so small. With what looks like a crisis portending for the muni markets and growing investor doubts about debt instruments across the board it is easy to imagine money flowing back to the beaten down resources sector as those present the best upside of anything available on the market today. In the process it might just give stock markets another shot in the arm.

    • Mario December 17, 2013, 2:40 pm

      Decided to ride my coffee short Cam, we’ll see…M

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 18, 2013, 3:20 pm

        You shorting coffee, Mario? It is up 15 bucks in the last 30 days. I honestly could not tell for sure if it would drop below a 100 or bounce. Guess we will see if this move has legs but you have to admit it was moving up pretty strong for the past week. Let me know how it works out.

      • mario cavolo December 19, 2013, 5:58 am

        yea, i’m not happy so far, after coffee broke back below 107 last week it looked like a continuation of the decline and a spike back up wasn’t in the cards. I decided to take the medium term rather than day trading view which would allow for a bounce to 120ish followed by a resumption of the decline. A bet’s a bet 🙂 we’ll see…M

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 19, 2013, 8:06 pm

        Best of luck of course. I think coffee has bottomed though. I am feeling optimistic about its future price so pencil me in long. That does imply I also think gold (commodities in general) will rebound in the New Year although exactly when is a crapshoot. I am holding out for an ugly low in gold though before taking a position. That low is below 1000 if you are curious…..mid 900’s for a bottom that will have finally washed out all the bulls of the past and left the table open new players.

  • John Jay December 17, 2013, 6:35 am

    Rick,
    Regarding the now repealed Fed charter provision that had allowed them to directly inject money to the masses.
    I checked a couple of episodes of the Keiser Report and could not find it.
    Perhaps you might e mail Max and ask if he remembers the discussion on his show.
    I remember Max and the guest laughing because the repealed provision was numbered 1313 or something.
    Hope that helps.

  • Bob December 17, 2013, 2:15 am

    C,mom everybody! This is all too simple! Even if there is going to be a taper (there isn’t), it’s not going to be during the holidays. Any taper would be introduced next year. The Fed does not want to crash the market over the holidays and Benny does not want it to crash until he’s well out the door. You should expect no hint of a taper in the Fed report. Expect your Santa Benny rally from Wednesday thru the first few days in January. Cheers! :))

  • mava December 16, 2013, 10:29 pm

    Why not taper?

    For if there are some who don’t think that expansion is a good idea, and keep standing the watch like the hawks, then why not have them on-board by having them taste some tapering?

    I think that we have to start our thinking from the known fact that TPTB want more easing. How much more? There is really no upper limit to how much more easing they would like. It is only a question of how much of the easing can they get away with.

    Easing is the printing of the money they get to spend. Don’t forget that. The printed money is new, for sure, paper or digits-wise, but the purchasing power it commands is not new. It is stolen from the purchasing power of all the money already existing!

    So, easing is in fact the process by which your and my purchasing power gets transferred to the bankers and the government.

    If they can get away with 2% easing, then that is what they will do, as they did for long time, because the public was dumb enough to believe that the 2% of their labor should be funneled up to the government and bankers in exchange for nothing.

    That was then. Now, it appears, the new normal is in place, where it is possible to have the people believe that much more easing is a perfectly good thing.

    Then this is what will be done. A little tapering will be announced, just to show the vigilantes that not easing is a very bad thing. And then, the easing will resume, bigger than ever.

    • DK December 17, 2013, 10:43 am

      Mava, I am thinking the same thing. At least some tapering in 2014. Dip a toe in the water to test.

      New Q.E. “e-i-e-i-o.” Whatever they want to call it.

      Rates up (watch out bonds), “economy” down (further), gold/silver/copper, etc. back up. Been keeping an eye on palladium as well.

      Oh, I’m thinking Rosetta Stone, Mandarin, will be useful in the near future.

      • Mario December 17, 2013, 2:38 pm

        Just maybe DK…:)

  • Drewcifer December 16, 2013, 9:53 pm

    I don’t see Ben doing anything this week except retiring, riding into the sunset and letting Janet clean up the mess next year. The news of no tapering will kick off Rick’s favorite: The Santa Clause Rally!

  • Cam Fitzgerald December 16, 2013, 9:17 pm

    Of course I am in complete agreement with your thesis Rick. What is really interesting to me is all the talk this past six months about the commodities supercycle having ended. None other than David Rosenberg has chimed in agreeing as have analysts from JP Morgan and many others.

    I have my doubts though. Several things are implied by commodities that keep falling. First amongst these is that the Fed and other interventionist policies have lost the battle for generating even the most feeble of growth and thus some necessary inflation. Secondly, that a continued decline in commodities suggests the desired economic expansion has indeed ended stillborn and there is no real growth opportunity lying ahead of us based on demands for resources.

    If the commodity supercycle has ended incidentally then so have the hopes of the gold camp that prices will recover. Even a gold bear like myself does not believe that is in the cards and so it is encouraging to hear that copper is again looking positive and along and with it the fortunes of precious metals also increasing. Coffee, interestingly enough, is staging a surprise comeback.

    It seems obvious to me that some of the energy pent up in the mass of money created must be released into the resource sector because what happens there will signal to the market that a recovery is both possible and underway (even if initially it is pure speculative forces driving the price growth).

    Was it not commodities in decline due to rising surpluses that were one of the factors that set off the crash of 29? In any case, we cannot continue to see declines in commodities without coming to the conclusion that if the price declines are not arrested that we will indeed slip into outright deflation in some countries as falling input costs lead to lower retail pricing.

    It is pretty clear that the Fed will desire to see a somewhat higher inflation rate in any case. They have said as much already. Your idea that the banks will kick off the lending necessary to move the markets without further Fed interventions is pretty appealing from that perspective. The engine for inflation to be initiated has been fully primed already and no more Easing is required to further stoke the boilers.

    They had best be careful though. Once the Genie is out of the bottle the outcomes could be swift and dangerous where rate setting is concerned. Especially if war really is looming in the East China Sea. I am now leaning positively to the recommencement of the commodities bull that began to be retarded three years back.

    That is another way of saying I think inflation will be stoked.

    • Chuck December 16, 2013, 11:46 pm

      I thought the US economy was fueled by consumer buying. Are these ‘positive’ economic indicators being fed to us in order to continue the consumer confidence levels needed to keep the economy going.

      I was in Target on Thanksgiving night….black Thursday. It seemed like 80% of the customers were there to buy big screen TVs – all the carts had 1 or 2 in them. There must have been at least 10 cop cars in the parking lot in case trouble started…….last grasp of consumer breath??

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 17, 2013, 12:10 am

        If it was merely consumption that drove the economy then the Fed would need do nothing more than cut checks for the whole population, Chuck.

      • gary leibowitz December 17, 2013, 5:52 am

        How about just allowing the economic data points tell us what is happening and if their is a clear pattern. Why does everyone always dismiss a scenario where we aren’t going to crash and burn in a month’s time?

        The so called lies can’t, I repeat can’t fake earnings and whether YOU have a job or not. Whether YOU have a pay cut or not. Here is a shocker for you. The data points for the last 5 years is consistent with a very slow recovering economy. Now lets take the position that most here believe, it is faked. I would say the faked data for 5 years has run perfectly. A perfect lie, where no one found the smoking gun yet, no one broke down and admitted we live in the Matrix.

        There will come a time where you get that ah-ha moment when it becomes crystal clear we will fall apart. That moment will not tell you exactly when it will happen, but you will know it will be relatively soon. Not likely yet, with an economy that is starting to see life ahead of it. It just doesn’t make sense. On an earnings detach for over-optimistic growth we could and should have a bear run that can clip 20 percent off the top.

      • mario cavolo December 17, 2013, 11:41 am

        Cam, 🙂 I didn’t use your name, but I mentioned some of your Africa related thoughts in a recent article I posted here, thought you might like to see it. Cheers, Mario

        http://mariocavolo-author.tumblr.com/post/70176844196/china-retail-sales-hit-usd-3-48-trillion-heres-the

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 18, 2013, 6:09 am

        Well thanks, Mario. Cash economies are fascinating and much deeper than I suspected. There is a real distrust of conventional banking here by the way. Probably because past governments were less than stable and outright confiscation of land, business and property were once routine. I mean it just amounted to theft by those in power from those who had no ability to resist force. So there is a long held tradition of people burying their wealth in the form of jewellry, silver coins and other tradable items including cash. Especially in the farm country. But it does have a downside risk. A restaurant owner near me was telling the story this past week of how his elderly neighbor had buried all his money in a big ceramic jar many years back. Then he unexpectedly died. The family looked in vain for the treasure for years but was never able to locate the fortune and eventually it was given up for lost. This past year though it was accidentally discovered when the farm fields were being plowed prior to the seasonal planting. Up came the old jar and the equivalent of 100 thousand dollars in the local currency that was broken open on a wooden plow. A true fortune! The grandchildren of the old man gathered and counted it all in amazement. It was their inheritance and a very unexpected surprise as the story of the lost money had never been forgotten over the years. The bills had become quite damaged during their years underground though. So they got organized and got a lift into town where they met with bank officials to exchange it for fresh notes. The bank rebuffed them unkindly though. The old currency was not worth a rotten nickel anymore as it had been issued by a different regime long in the past and the exchange period had long since expired. Naturally they were devastated but there was a silver lining as it turned out. The coins that were also in the urn had not only held all their original value but had in fact appreciated considerably over the years. The old paper currency had fallen to exactly zero in just two generations but the gold and silver coins had retained all their original worth with an added bonus of collector value. And that’s an example of why it pays to keep wealth of real intrinsic value if your hoard is a bank account buried in the back fourty and a reminder to just spend the damned paper cash before it turns back to dust!

      • redwilldanaher December 19, 2013, 2:48 am

        “The holiday season has been marginal to just OK,” said Joel Bines, managing director and co-head of the retail practice at AlixPartners. “Retailers are doing anything they can to get rid of merchandise.”

        http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20131218&id=17204962

        As usual revenues are not good. Great data points continue Gary. Layoffs and “productivity” gains baby… thought you loved the workin’ man

        What if zirp wasn’t helping to boost the bottom line… We’re firing on all 3 cylinders… Don’t know why they even started QE infinity, things would have been this great regardless…

        I don’t know about y’all but I’ve lost a ton of respect for Alexander Hamilton over the past few years. Just think of how rich we’d all be by now if he had launched QE infinity from the gitgo…

  • Jason S December 16, 2013, 8:52 pm

    I wonder if it is possible/legal for the Treasury to create a new type of bond that is denominated in something like SDRs in conjunction with the BIS, WB and IMF? This might allow the Fed to reduce its balance sheet, call an end to QE but still funnel money into the banking system to suppress rates and buy up agency bonds.

  • Gary leibowitz December 16, 2013, 7:38 pm

    Industrial production hit all time high. Consistent with all other data points showing economic strength. Taper seems inevitable. Productivity has been very high accounting for market rally.

    You can once again ignore the numbers but I can assue you Wall Street will not. Wages have to grow to sustain economic growth.

    Will reiterate my position that the next bear market will be as a result of expansion and higher rates and cost. As impossible as it seems.

    But hey, what do it know about debt deflation. Either this is the start of a much improve economy or we have more faked data.

    When does the government tell us the truth ? a 5 the year of deception and lies.

    Why in all this time does no one show us how they keep getting away with it. I am interested to see the next bear market and how this group interprets the reasons, especially if it occurs because of accelerated activity causing rates to rise.

    • Chuck December 16, 2013, 8:34 pm

      I thought that congress was supposed to control the national ‘purse’. When did they get too busy to do that grunt work?

      “Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes the laws.”
      – Mayer Amschel Rothschild

      Didn’t your mother always say…’money doesn’t grow on trees’. It’s mostly ‘ether’ money now anyhow…..digits….1’s and 0’s on a computer- the FED computers.

      • Chuck December 16, 2013, 8:37 pm

        John Maynard Keynes said……
        “Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalistic System was to debauch the currency… Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million can diagnose.”

      • Chuck December 16, 2013, 11:40 pm

        then again….look at this…..we MUST be recovering…..the MSM said so….

        http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/09/news/economy/economic-outlook-2014.moneymag/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight

    • DK December 16, 2013, 8:42 pm

      “When does the government tell us the truth ? a 5 the year of deception and lies.

      Why in all this time does no one show us how they keep getting away with it. ”

      That is simply hilarious!

      You are insinuating the lies and deceit only existed beyond 5 years ago, or further back?

      To answer your first question, probably not in our collective lifetimes.

      The only things they’ve successfully done is obscure the truth, spend the money/resources they steal from us and start wars; “for our own good” of course.

      Why do they get away with it? Perhaps because the majority of the population misinformed on purpose, lazy, distracted, misdirected, reactive (rather than proactive), growingly complacent; basically completely brainwashed.

      “It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” – Henry Ford

      And the majority of the population being that way is all they need.

      Conformity is encouraged (bred/spoon fed), independence, critical thinking, and creativity are not.

      “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson… -Franklin D. Roosevelt
      (in a letter to Colonel House, dated November 21, 1933)

      • mario cavolo December 17, 2013, 2:50 am

        How about they have gotten away with it all because they have rewritten and skirted the laws of the land? There are dozens of articles clearly identifying with undeniable evidence that the laws of the land have been usurped, changed, cancelled or ignored. It all happening transparently in front of our faces, known to all, hasn’t made a bit of difference. And that is EXACTLY the same as having any central govt and its banks in control as a giant government SOE, same as America, which if they were doing a good job at governance wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. Free market capitalistic trickle down economics couldn’t be more deader than it is. (yes Rick, I used that poor grammar on purpose)

        Cheers, Mario

      • DK December 17, 2013, 3:23 am

        Mario,
        How do you suppose they’ve been able to rewrite and skirt the law of the land had the majority not been misinformed, distracted, misdirected, nurtured to be lazy (not to mention drugged/fluoridated/malnourished, MUCH more), and complacent, etc (all of the aforementioned)?

        http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2013/12/are-too-many-kids-taking-antipsychotic-drugs/index.htm

        Everything is a “disorder” nowadays too. They can take anyone off the street and diagnose the with about 10 different things.

        How many people do you know, Americans or other, that actually know what the Constitution (Federalist Papers), Bill of Rights, etc. actually say?

        Wouldn’t you agree that there is a reason the Ron Pauls of the world find a substantive reason to design lesson plan for home schooling that specifically teaches the Constitution?

        As mentioned before, conformity is encouraged, critical thinking, creativity and independence (especially of said thought) is not. Actually it is now targeted, heck, they’re trying to focus on it via technology.

        Orwell would be salivating, heck he may even be blown away.

      • gary leibowitz December 17, 2013, 5:36 am

        Now there is the difference between my views and all others. It’s a matter of perspective. I view the current events as nothing more or less than at any time in history. In the name of capitalism we have done some horrific things. It is a messy system where elitism reigns and always will. Now I ask you, what system has worked better? You can’t dismantle one without having a semblance of an idea what will work. All I ever hear is an angry crown pointing out all the foibles of a democratic system yet no one bothered to determine how to build a better one. Capitalism is self sustaining because it works. When the huge imbalances happen the market swings like a pendulum, but bust and high inequality reverts to the other extreme like we had in the 70’s.

        This cycle is a big one and started in the 80’s when credit replaced cash. It also altered the game and economists have to keep revising their theories because of it. Not one single person here ever expected to see the 10 year note at under 3 percent and an economy that is absolutely showing signs of life. You used your old model to determine how debt will kill this market and no amount of money will revive it. I stated many years ago that given enough time, with low stable raters, the economy will revert back to its post 80’s ways. I never ever stated I believe we will cheat on this very wide pendulum swing. A day or reckoning will come, but I don’t see it anytime soon. Sorry I just can’t join your “sky is falling” rally just yet.

        To expect another crash soon would imply someone has an idea of the chain of events that would cause this to happen. Rates are moving up because the economy is getting stronger. The 64 thousand dollar question is will the taper cause major disruptions. I don’t believe it will. Will the political gridlock of the past continue? When it comes to political calamities it is there that anything can happen to the market. Left on it own there is nothing immediate that would indicate the whole thing collapses.

      • Jason S December 17, 2013, 8:12 pm

        Gary, I agree with you that this is a big cycle and based on credit massively expanding the currency. I also don’t see anything currently on the domestic horizon that would cause calamity (though I do see a recession coming soon.) It is what I see as foreign threats that scare me because they are big enough to topple this credit bubble: France financially imploding, Greece leaving the EU, Japan financially imploding, a Japan vs. China war to name the biggies on the radar. Then there is the crap we cant see that may float to the surface like another LTCM situation. The major central banks are not in a position to handle another massive crisis.

      • Gary leibowitz December 18, 2013, 12:16 am

        The point I am making is that we are seeing signs of domestic growth. I can’t anticipate an external shock to the system but that shouldn’t stop one from investing.

        As for the macro economic path I am on board with the idea that it is unsustainable. I also don’t see our government as an evil entity. If I had the ability to replace all top government people with all the outspoken bloggers on this site, I would conclude that you all will repeat the same mistakes already made. Good intentions and running a government do not always work. Putting their shoes on will change your ideological thinking. I don’t condone the path we we’re lead to, but can understand how it came about. I believe very strongly that strict rules is needed to prevent us from going astray. Naive? Maybe. But given the enormous power and temptation that comes who the position, it would be prudent to place roadblocks. I am still looking for change.

      • redwilldanaher December 18, 2013, 5:07 pm

        Heard this morning that 79% of the sheeple still believe they’re in a recession, supposedly the poll was conducted by the Washington comPost, which as we all know is part of the domestic Pravda network that worships our so-called leader, the street corner thug or community idiot or whatever they call him these days.

        Point being that even the sheeple aren’t fooled, 4 out of 5 aren’t fooled. The average fool isn’t fooled yet we have folks that show up here nearly every day to lecture our closed minds as to just exactly how great things become. They look past lawlessness and $85 billion per month and believe numbers that are published by liars and cheats that are in turn verified by cheats and liars that are then broadcast by…

        Chart after chart proves that the current levels of manipulation are historic and unsustainable. But the fool is the shill will have none of it.

        Does the fool ever tire?

      • redwilldanaher December 18, 2013, 5:25 pm

        CNBC must be charged with drawing in more shorts for the next leg/blowoff:

        http://www.cnbc.com/id/101278406

        Jim Grant calling it a “hall of mirrors”, he must not read Gary’s missives. Can’t wait to read Gary taking him to task, along with us, since Grant shares our view of manipulation:

        The stock market is being led by the dangerous “monetary manipulation” of the Federal Reserve’s $85-billion-a-month in quantitative easing bond purchases, Jim Grant—founder and editor of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer—said Tuesday, as the central bank began its final meeting of the year.

        “The stock market is now a tool of Fed policy,” he said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box”.

        “What the Fed is doing is an exercise in price control. This is ‘stocks.gov’ [and] ‘bonds.gov,'” Grant said. “The clear and present risk of the stock market is we’re living … in a hall of mirrors” because the Fed’s accommodative policy is distorting the calculations by which the market has been traditionally valued.

        “Five years, and they are conjuring $85-billion-a-month, with which to buy securities, with which to enrich Greenwich, Connecticut, even more,” Grant railed. “This is the policy of the one-tenth of one percent.”

        “You say, ‘There’s no inflation?’ How about Wall Street? Stocks and bonds and art and Ferraris and farmland, assets are up,” he said.

      • redwilldanaher December 18, 2013, 5:27 pm

        How does populist Gary live with 1% ‘r shill Gary?

    • Rick Ackerman December 17, 2013, 3:47 am

      I can’t believe I’m letting this post run. I must be going soft in the holiday season.

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 17, 2013, 10:31 am

        No surprise you can’t see it Gary. What is happening today in the financial system verges on epochal. It is a generational event we approach and so you are not alone in doubting just how severe it might be. I will lump you in with just about 98% of the folks out there who will discover belatedly that what is inconceivable today is actually going to become quite normal tomorrow. Be sure not to take steps to prepare. That will boost my short position once initiated.

      • DK December 18, 2013, 2:33 pm

        Absolutely, Cam.
        Institutions like DB, JPM, GS, etc have been investigated and fined (barely) for manipulating just about everything, latest is probably the precious metals – gold. Stock market, energy markets, LIBOR, Forex, real estate, you name it.
        Who’s on deck now? What’s the next rigging to occur?
        Yet, not a single one of these scum bags does time; Corzinesque.
        How does that guy even have a job anymore? Like Dick Fuld, back in the hedge fund business, facing litigation so he transfers his home to his wife for $100.
        Disgusting.
        How do these cretins avoid getting banned for life, if not serving time. They make Madoff look like a chump.

        Further, some of them are administering or raising fees on various accounts, limiting withdrawals, and canceling international wires. I wonder why? Who gets the short end of that stick? Yea, no surprises.

        Remember the so-called “stress tests” from years back with tax cheat Geithner, etc? A couple of years later, how are we doing? Pfffttt… haha
        If everything’s so hunky dory, why all the capital restrictions imposed on customers? Why try to impose fees on debit cards?
        Pathetic.

        Meanwhile the Fed churns out $85B a month hoping to keep the peace and buy a bunch of worthless crap with our money.

        Weren’t we supposed to MAKE money on the GM bailout? Give me a break. Wonder how those bond holders feel now?

        Unemployment purportedly goes down, but what fills the gap? A bunch of part time garbage warehousing positions that don’t pay a living wage, along with government positions, healthcare, and transportation. Mind you the seasonality of it.

        This has become the norm of a so-called “recovering” economy. These events are increasing in frequency, though we are told to remain confident and steadfast. Amazingly, everyone is still waiting.

        Meanwhile, people invest in their paper gold, no audits of the Fed or Ft. Knox. BRICs (especially India and China) buy thousands of tons of gold.
        Sounds like a recovery to me.

        Anyone who buys into this crap deserves what they will get.

        Debt ceiling arguments on the horizon, again.

        Perhaps another flash crash is in our near future.

        I’m thinking JPM is in deep do-do.

      • old Dave December 20, 2013, 12:28 am

        Possibly you’re having a contact high from all that legal marijuana being toked in Denver.

  • mary December 16, 2013, 12:48 pm

    Interesting, isn’t it? Is all the propaganda preparation for tapering or magician’s diversion? Quien sabe? Just this evening was discussing similar topic with dh, about the newfangled currency controls, aka FATCA and the financial nuclear option of cutting off the swift system for Iran. Is the rest of the world really angry about these abuses, or are they all in agreement, in on it together, the better to collect taxes? He wisely said that we’ll never know and what does it matter anyway? We’re all screwed, one way or the other…

  • Silver Surfer December 16, 2013, 7:39 am

    Amidst the bubbleonian blather bloviations of the so-called financial experts, Rick’s insights are a breath of fresh air. Thanks again.

    On the copper trade, would take a look at trading March instead of December as open interest in Dec is low and could be a problem as it goes off the board soon. There is a bit of backwardation between the two months also.

    A good site for correlations between futures is here and interestingly, there is a slightly negative correlation between the stock indices and copper. The metals are highly positively correlated. See the link here
    http://www.mrci.com/special/correl.htm

    For more futures trading using the pivot system (I’m a grad of Rick’s course), see the letter here
    http://overcomer.webs.com/TradingPlaces12142013.pdf

    Profitable trading to everyone and shalom !

  • decemberlight December 16, 2013, 7:00 am

    Happen to have just watched the Frontline story on Brooksley Born and CFTC vs. Clinton’s “Working Group”.
    One wonders . . . many things too numerous. But mostly, how to play it when it goes. Control appears to be decaying at an accelerating rate. Might be an interesting morning. Glad to have Hidden Pivots as a guide.

    • Chuck December 16, 2013, 8:28 pm

      This is what led to AIG needing a ‘bail-in’……and so where is all that ‘debt’ being held now – because you know damn well it’s being held up like a house of cards….nothing has changed….the money has been shuffled around – no one got in any trouble.

  • John Jay December 16, 2013, 6:30 am

    Ben can print away, because the FSA, (as Zero Hedge calls it) is now so huge, that no one wants to face economic reality.
    He will have their approval until the final collapse.

    Or, as William Manchester so rightly observed in his “The Arms of Krupp” history:
    “No one in Germany questioned Hitler’s sanity until he started to lose.”
    So, I will go with that concept and state:
    “No one will question the Fed’s sanity until an “Economic Stalingrad” crushes their policies.”

    Until then, Ben or Janet or whoever will be riding high until they get caught in a trap, just like von Paulus and his 6th Army at Stalingrad.

    The trap might be sprung by the Russians, the Chinese, who knows.
    But it is coming.
    The Fed’s supply lines are every bit as extended as the 6th armies were in 1942/43.
    I think the parallels are striking.
    We’ll see.

    • DK December 16, 2013, 7:27 am

      Particularly China.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/03/us-markets-offshore-yuan-idUSBRE9B204020131203

      China has imported something like 2,000+ tons of gold int he last 2 years.

      Beijing installed a new air defense zone over the East China Sea. One of our missile cruisers nearly collided with one of China’s warships recently.
      7-fold increase in military spending by China since 2003

      Increasingly stronger language directed at US by the worlds’ super powers, economically and otherwise.

      Russia no different (i.e. Syria)

      Another so-called “debt ceiling crisis” in January? BammyCare kicking off… Oh, and what was it that John McAfee was saying about Healthcare.gov?

      Rick, here’s an interesting piece for you. Since you also hail from N.J.
      http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/apocalypse-new-jersey-a-dispatch-from-americas-most-desperate-town-20131211?print=true

      This just keeps getting better, across-the-board.

      • Rick Ackerman December 17, 2013, 6:25 am

        Having grown up in South Jersey and worked there as a newspaper reporter and editor, I can attest that Camden was an economic basket case 30 years before Matt Taibbi was born. A fascinating and counterintuitive story that he evidently failed to uncover is that, behind all the squalor, Camden has become a thriving money center — a place where politicians and businessmen have chosen to do business because it is off the radar of reporters and prosecutors.

      • DK December 17, 2013, 10:08 am

        Reporters and prosecutors aside, perhaps it becomes the next Detroit “land of opportunity,” as Mr. Buffett recently dubbed it.

        Blankfein at the podium (retching)

        http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/11/26/goldman-sachs-michigan-small-business-loans/3747649/

      • Redwilldanaher December 20, 2013, 2:24 am

        Grew up not too far from there. PATCO ride through there could easily be mistaken for time travel to a non descript bombed out city circa 1945. I was told that once the Cherry Hill mall opened, Camden’s descent accelerated and it’s fate was all but sealed.

    • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 17, 2013, 11:52 pm

      JJ, as always, you are right on.

      the chinese are (sloooww) planning something, VERY big. WORLD big.

      I no longer have the weblink, but I was astounded to
      read, about half year ago-

      that the chinks have created a humongous underground bunker-

      a huge donut, circular in shape (alike ‘2001, a space odessey’s’ spaceship)-

      that runs for zillions of miles, and it’s reminiscent of, the great wall of china.

      haha. so chinks are up to something BIG, in many ways, but slooowly…

      and the article I read about it, had one pic of it, and… I don’t think it was fake.

      chink-living mario probably know much more about this, so he can comment.

      $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

      I don’t think anybody saw my late comment on the prior weekly rick thread,
      since there were no comments on it. but I consider it important enough, to repost-

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/12/14/government-takeover-white-house-forces-obamacare-insurers-to-cover-unpaid-patients-at-a-loss/?partner=yahootix

      and here is it’s primary quote which I cited, to peak your interest, in the article–

      “It’s unconstitutional to FORCE insurers to cover people for FREE…”

      (and last time I checked, I think, FORCING people to word for FREE, was called–

      ‘SLAVERY,’ wasn’t it? hum. I think. yeah. Work for Free, Forced. yeah. ‘SLAVERY’.

      yeah. that’s what my old dictionary still says. for the definition of ‘SLAVERY.’

      hum. but, in 21st century p.c. ‘NewSpeak ‘, now it will be called, something like–

      ‘GOVT. APPROVED ADMIRED ALTRUISM’ (or ‘GOV. AAA’, for short)

      since it appears that enslaving hardworking caucasians nowadays, is ok;
      while enslaving lazy shiftless criminal violent negros on the dole, is not ok. ¿huh?

      hahaha. the world is upside down. and I wonder how long, this will last.

      for when massive debt, is massive wealth; and ever lying leaders are truthtellers,

      and everyone buys this bullshht, consistently, day in and day out, with no reprieve,

      then, in my opinion, the best advise is custer’s, to–‘keep the last bullet for yourself’.

      hahaha. the usa is mega fkked.

      $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

      btw, dk, I saw your comment on prior thread, and yes, the article, came from you.
      I read so many different daily articles, that I sometimes forget their source.

      • Mario Cavolo December 18, 2013, 5:40 am

        Patagonia, I suspect that you might consider posting here when you’re not high on something and incapable of controlling your sexist racist idiot button.

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 19, 2013, 1:25 am

        mario, I love your totally scrubbed brainwashed ‘controlled’ politically-correct comment. ‘sexist, racist…’ excellent.

        however, when it comes to idiocy, I know that’s a subject you know much about; since you are the wannabe-chink, laughable-clown, village-idiot, of this site. so ‘cheers,’ butho.

        and hey, pathetic chink-loving dufus, many great things have been written, by many great writers, while being ‘high on something,’ as you say.

        So, if you want to continue to attack mind-altering substances, then, you might truly, eventually, offend me.

        Until then, bottoms up! haha.

        (and btw, you didn’t address any comments I made, on chinks’ creating a huge underground bunker, to withstand a nuclear ww3. any comments on that, asian-groveling turkey? and also btw, I do love asian girls, have known many, in the biblical sense; however, I am just not so crazy, about asian guys…)

      • mario cavolo December 19, 2013, 5:50 am

        Patagonia, you asked for it and afterwards, we all pray you go away because you are assuredly not welcome here.

        You insult and embarrass yourself. I am married to a “chink”. You are a racist stupid POS, your blather only confirms your lack of intelligence, your emotional instability, your irrational thinking and please please consider upping your meds.

        But no matter what, go away from this board, which is for the most part a professional place for intelligent discussion, not your pointless idiotic personal, insulting crap. We are not here for that.

        As far as your mentioning anything worthy such as China’s military plans, it doesn’t matter, because you don’t deserve a reply, anyone here wouldn’t waste their time replying to someone who writes as yourself.

        If you wish to , and it seems you do, to be a person of such attacking stupid, irrational disregard for others, so be it. Go away and bother and disturb and make a fool of yourself elsewhere, hey you can even start your own board to gather with like-minded racist, insulting twitheads.

        Fortunately for me, you no longer exist.

      • Rick Ackerman December 19, 2013, 6:54 pm

        Patagonia: I despise political correctness as much as you do, but being a gentleman in this forum still takes precedence.

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 19, 2013, 11:57 pm

        mario, mario, mario…

        however, I will say this—I will leave you alone, and not say more to you, per se.

        why? rick has just touche’d me. and I am an ex-fencer, my favorite sport.

        since in dueling fencing, being a gentleman, even if you die from it, is all.

        it was YOU that insulted me first, in calling me an idiot.

        and of course, I always give ten-back fold, to those that insult me first.

        enough said. I’ll leave you alone from now on.

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 21, 2013, 10:00 pm

        and fyi, mario, rick edited out 3/4 of my reply to you above, he only left the ‘sanitized’ version of it.

        I will not repeat them, or good ol’ rick will ‘ban’ 1 more of my roaming IP addresses, again.

        Suffice to say, I don’t like you. I think you make a big deal, about living in china. but without that, you’d be nothing.

        and fyi, I love chinese women. I’ve had many of them. and this is a very ‘sanitized’ version, of what I wrote earlier, and rick erased, since it was a more graphic version, of my pleasure, with chink chinese girls. and also, I did know already, that you were married to a chick chinese girl. and I also told you, which rick erased, that that was the only thing, I envied from you. for I wish I had enough money, to buy a chinese girl, as a wife. haha. it’s true.

        &&&&&

        Okay. Now can we get back on-topic? RA

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 21, 2013, 10:28 pm

        Fascinating. Even on the wild web we rarely read such stupid commentary anymore. Especially on sites that are respected. Guess that is the last of your racist posts.

        Bye Bye.

    • redwilldanaher December 19, 2013, 2:31 am

      Great work JJ. Stalingrad reference is sublime.

      • old Dave December 19, 2013, 10:57 pm

        Mario, we can all understand how you feel. Everything should have its context. We can make this a learning lesson, chink originally meant Chinese North Korean. It wasn’t that long ago when slang was used on TV comedy, here watch from 2:30, and we seemed to be less reactive and it was not about racial hatred but to make a point. This long running show wasn’t immediately canceled because it exposed how many ethnic Americans were raised and talk behind closed doors and with each other. Could you imagine this on broadcast TV today? No one has watched a Comedy Central roast? Friar’s Club? Do the Chinese have slang referring to Americans?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHOJ_2q2Uz4

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 20, 2013, 12:54 am

        The call us Gwee-Low behind our backs. It means white ghost.

      • mario cavolo December 20, 2013, 11:20 am

        Patagonia, I will clarify this appropriately for you and the other board gang. I called you an idiot and so on because you referred to Chinese as chinks, which in my book is no different a disparaging comment than using n*gg*r lover or s**c for those ethic groups. Besides that, in general your other insulting personal type comments are simply and absolutely not welcome, well you’ve figured that much out by now elsewhere on the board. So get with the program or hit the road. I personally have zero tolerance for the idea of disparaging “blame” against any country of people in a disparaging way, its naive, immature, idiotic, irrational and offbase in every possible way. Why, because it adds nothing to the dialogue. Living in a foreign country for many years, which just happens to be China, has taught me that much.

      • mario cavolo December 20, 2013, 11:26 am

        old Dave and all, I get it guys, thanks.

        Cam, yea, now here in China we’re often and commonly called “LaoWai” which translates as “foreign devil”. Alot of people say it without meaning anything too nasty, but others, mostly the less educated street people, male and female, do mean it nasty. With its rise, there is growing nationalism and arrogance toward foreigners in Chinese society.

        Cheers, Mario

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 20, 2013, 4:30 pm

        I think it happens all over the world, Mario. Mostly it is nothing to be concerned about. I have encountered similar insults over the past years and noticed it is often just some baked-in resentment of Westerners that has little basis and is not even personal most times. They get swamped in negative media messages here too. Not too much you can do about it. Mostly though I have found the vast majority of perople are very welcoming of outsiders and especially so when you are married to a local gal. So I just let it slide and try not to get my back up. Funny but the worst of the racist commentary I have ever encountered seems to come from North Americans and especially those who have never lived outside thier own borders (or even their own county!). Once you leave the NA continent it is far more tolerant of outsiders than most back home might imagine.

      • Mario December 22, 2013, 4:43 am

        Amazing Cam, that he just had to send in that ridiculous post.

        Coffee rejected the resistance line again. If it does break through it in another try, it’s pretty sure to keep going for awhile into the 120s, indicating the bottom is in. But there’s huge global supply … I was looking for continued decline to 101ish or lower.

        Cheers, Mario

  • Jimmy the Geek December 16, 2013, 5:22 am

    “Commence Operation Screw!” – Janet Yelping, Head Demonic Goblin Dwarf of the Federal Reserve Bank.

    Agree there will only be a taper in name only while they continue to inflate through another mechanism.

    • John Jay December 16, 2013, 3:25 pm

      Jimmy,

      “Commence Operation Screw”

      “Screw” is the word!
      While watching a Max Keiser episode this weekend, I was surprised to learn that the Fed always had the legal option to distribute money directly to the masses, and not just Oligarch Banks.
      However, some where in all the legislation recently enacted by Congress and signed by the POTUS, that option was outlawed!

      Another Bitch Slap for you and I!
      Lifeboats are strictly reserved for the First Class Passengers.
      The Steerage Passengers have been locked below decks once more, so FC passengers won’t have to listen to all that screaming as the ship sinks.

      &&&&&

      I was under the impression that the direct-distribution method was limited to Fed purchases of, say, bonds issued by Obama’s favorite, technically bankrupt companies. Could you tell us more about this option? RA

      • mario cavolo December 17, 2013, 2:34 am

        Considering the multiple billions the FED has been passing around like candy, you might think they along with our “leaders” (puke) in Washington would be sitting down at the table and happily figuring out how to come up with a better strategy that is helpful to the overall economy and citizens of the country. Are they doing that? Seems not, which means that that’s not what their interest or agenda is. They’ve done it all in a way to make only themselves filthy rich and setup the middle class to become workers. They’ve had as little foresight as to present and future planning as might a ten year old, so they either are a. naive children or b. they are planning and doing exactly what they want to take care of themselves. Obviously its a. Meanwhile, regardless of the reasons they are faced with the reality that over the next few decades starting in 2008 America is losing its current status as the defacto world power. They know that too and they are trying to figure out how to respond to that. With the deepening trend toward being a globally linked macro economy the need is greater than ever for a “world” body of government to effectively, and note I use the word “effectively” come together at a table and govern and plan the global economic society. As self-interest, greed, stone-walling and various other hiccups always get in the way, the odds of this happening are near zero even though its needed as a response to the changing global landscape driven by many factors.

        America is being bought up by Chinese/Asian money. America has its new oil and gas reserves and the trend of reshoring coming up. China is colonializing in Africa and Latin America. The boundaries of commerce and communication are becoming thicker and fuzzier as each year passes. I have to admit, how to respond effectively is a daunting task. Meanwhile, in the macro picture, the S&P, which is more and more and global stock market index, not an American one, will continue to grow as world GDP grows. That’s about the only thing I am most sure of.

        Cheers, Mario

  • Troll December 16, 2013, 5:14 am

    I foresee that the stock market is going to go where we thought it would, based on what you taught us. After that, I don’t know, and I don’t care.

    &&&&&&

    And where, pray tell, might that be? Even I’m having trouble believing stocks are going as high as my ‘technicals’ have been predicting. A January crash is what my gut is saying. RA

    • onoiro December 16, 2013, 11:45 pm

      Martin Armstrong has been describing a possible DJIA phase transition within the next few years. “A phase transition requires a minimum of a doubling in price in 11 months” -Martin A. Armstrong (2011). How & When. Armstrong Economics Forecasting the World, pg. 5, paragraph 8.

    • Troll December 17, 2013, 1:28 am

      I have the Dow at 16810.54 (pattern low March 2009)

      There was too much activity around the midpoint for me not to consider this a very good possibility.

      As for a crash in January, I think the Presidential Cycle would confirm your gut feelings.

      We will know when we get there.

    • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 18, 2013, 1:01 am

      ra, have you heard of the short/long skirt indicator, of bull and bear markets? well, I think is was prechter that invented it, but I don’t remember.

      however, I do think, there is great validity in it, psychologically, historically.

      and today… young women are running around outdoors naked, all over europe;
      and also parts of the usa, flashing anybody outdoors, their intimate parts,
      be it top, bottom, or rear; and this the major bull indicator, as much as I hate it.

      not that I hate to see young women strip, damn not, but, I hate what indicator states—
      that this current craziest bullmarket, of all times, will continue on, for more years.

      remember flappers, in late twenties? and their short skirts, showing their privates?
      remember their wild crazy dances, indicating frothy shallow, light girl happiness?

      well, that’s today. and they don’t even wear skirts anymore, mostly just strip.
      and in my opinion, this is top indication, that markets will continue, higher.
      for years. I know it sounds crazy, but young female actions, are the best indicator.

      I know. it’s utter insanity. however, it is reality. and girls can feel, the free air.
      no responsibility. just floating, happily, having a rich dude take them, for a ride.

      IMO. the madness wil continue, for much longer. since no one cares, anymore.

      $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

      btw, rick, your writings on jersey below, reminded me of one of my favorite films-
      ‘cop land.’ probably stallone’s best performance ever, with a great cast and story.

      new york city cops live in jersey community, where they can do as they please,
      including hiding a ‘wag the dog story’ rookie killer cop, because, as you say–

      “…a place where politicians and businessmen have chosen to do business because it is off the radar of reporters and prosecutors.”

      • Troll December 18, 2013, 3:45 am

        Wow, we should all pay strict attention!

        I get my posts deleted for infractions that don’t even come close to your idiocy.

      • Cam Fitzgerald December 18, 2013, 3:12 pm

        Hell yes. Even I am in moderation and cannot even figure out why. Maybe because I wrote “damned” but who the “hell” knows (quoatation marks assure the computer won’t catch on this time around!).

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 19, 2013, 2:17 am

        troll, your name says all.
        yet I will give you a lesson, about whom is the idiot, of us two, fool.

        the girl ‘hemline’ indicator, along with all the arts–music, film, paintings, etc.
        have been a staple of robert prechter’s SOCIETAL studies, over last 3 decades.

        WHY the MASSES act, in certain ways, in certain periods. societal MOOD.

        prechter goes back hundreds of years, and not just 20th century, to study societies.
        and their direct correlation, to the brit/usa stockmarket and currency values.

        but you are so fkknn stupid, you do not see any validity in anything your tiny troll head
        cannot comprehend—which is to have everything pre-chewed for you, like baby’s oatmeal.

      • TMM December 20, 2013, 4:41 am

        Haven’t you figured it out yet?

        Patagonia superspic is just the return of the commenter that was banned last year. Went by the name of ultimate destination or something similarly ridiculous. Names may change but personalities don’t.

        &&&&&&

        Turns out you are correct: He posted as ‘Vlad the Impaler’ before I eventually banned him. Now, with one just more small step even slightly out of bounds, he’ll be banned once again.
        RA

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 21, 2013, 9:48 pm

        rick, fyi, though you ‘banned’ 1 of my patagonia IP´s before, but I have a roaming IP; and throughout the last year, I have entered this site many times, to read comments on something interesting you’ve written, something similar to how I see things; but, I’ve never chosen to write anything within, just observe, comments, on the death of modern rome amerika.

        the value of the commenters here has fallen. fallingman is gone, maybe he fell too much. ha. mava hardly posts any more, yet I like her lunacy. mary rarely posts, and I liked her clarity. fortunately, old john jay has not croaked yet, and still spewing old-timer american pure truth. and the angry radical truthteller redwill d. is still angry, and crying outloud angry, which is great. cam is wise, but wordy, and his neverending paragraphs (like this one), are hard to read. so break up your thoughts, cam. I have never liked mario. ocassionally, he says something interesting about china. however, he is too servile, too toady, for my taste, and if it wasn’t that he lived in china, I’d consider most of his posts totally worthless.

        as to gary…–haha. rick, I have always thought that gary worked for you, to create controversy on the site. I have always though gary to be, your alter-ego. ha. (and that other girl, the socialist lib, what’s her name, can’t remember, that’s always licking gary’s boots, I’ve always thought, she and gary are the same and one person, and they are both made up names, and the stories they tell, ha). whatever. but now, rick, you say you are going to ban gary. that is fantastic. for you will now elevate the commentary on this site, 1000 percent, and make it an old-timer zerohedge, for wise speak-outloud veterans. and getting rid of gary forever, is the first step. let him go to some lib site, so he’s among his socialist brethren. and why he has stayed here this long, a place for individualists, is something I’ve never understood, unless–he worked for you, of course. haha.

        &&&&&&

        ZeroHedge is surely the gold standard for blogs, in large part because it dares to live up to its ‘Tyler Durden’ personna.

        Regarding Gary, he seems like a very decent guy, as I averred elsewhere in this thread, but his arguments long ago sapped the last ounce of my patience. Having written 1852 words that failed to address the GDP-vs-Debt relationship I’d challenged him to rebut, it’s time for Gary to get a life.

        You’re also correct about the forum’s declining value. I do not have the energy or the patience to revitalize it, for one reason: It has no correlation whatsoever with my revenues. That’s why I now do a topic of the week rather than a fresh, daily commentary. I am grateful nonetheless for the now-and-again brilliant posts that turn up here nonetheless. RA

      • patagoniaSUPERSPIC December 21, 2013, 11:24 pm

        Want to make an ammend to what I wrote above.
        prechter did not create the hemline indicator.

        it was created by economist george taylor, in 1926, in the middle of the ‘flapper’ frenzy.
        and it has worked well ever since. however, it is a longterm indicator, not a short one.

        as to my comment above, of today’s young women, running rampant in the streets,
        especially in europe, half or fully naked, and not just on the beach,
        but in fairs, down the streets, alleys, flashing anyone they wish, are commonplace.

        however, how much more naked can you get, than naked?
        so, is it the top of all tops, around—now?

        I say this because, of several things.
        first, the change in hemline was DRASTIC, from 1929 to 1930. you can look it up.
        the flappers of 29 were all showing their undies (or more) with short skirts.
        however, as soon as the huge crash hit, and depression set in hard,
        all of a sudden— young females were wearing long skirts, to their ankles.
        and wearing somber colors, as opposed to the colorful ones, year before.
        look it up, if you don’t believe it.

        and also found today, something of even larger interest, which correlates further—

        found a ‘yelnick’ website, that appears to specialize in stockchart comparative studies.
        and it is extraordinary, how much the comparable of dow and s&p movements, recently,
        compare to the separately overlaid charts of 1987, 2007, 1929, and the one that amazingly correlates the most, 1937.

        http://yelnick.typepad.com/yelnick/2013/11/is-this-1937-meme.html

        check it out. this one link leads you to all.

        (and of the 4, only the 1929 chart, shows that there is much more to go).

        &&&&&&&

        I don’t recall Bob Prechter getting or taking credit for the hemline indicator, but his two-volume opus on socionomics took the concept and ran with it. It’s a fascinating read that I’d recommend to all. The books are available through AMZN: ‘Socionomics: The Science of History and Social Prediction’ and ‘The Wave Principle of Human Social Behavior and the New Science of Socionomics’. RA

      • redwilldanaher December 22, 2013, 10:18 pm

        I had a feeling that Patagonia may have been super-cynical Vlad reincarnated. I enjoy Vlad’s posts on the whole but have to say that he does cross certain lines at times which I think is unfortunate and unnecessary. The flip side is that he seems to be genuinely interested in the truth.

        Regarding Vlad’s lament over what the hemline indicator portends, that brings back memories of Vlad’s hyper- bearishness. Vlad made great points in relation to the fraud market, its fraud central bank and its fraud media and fraud government but while I agreed with him in those respects, I’ve learned to leave room to appreciate that the madness can continue for a very long time. I also believe that it can fall apart quite fast given how levered up and illusion driven it has all become. I always try to remain open to madness in both directions and remain so at this time. I’ve also always tried to allow for the possibility that the fraud takes on a life of its own that can lead to another much more reality based leg to the upside. Our mutual friend Gary will dispute this but I do recall typing that here a few times. There may be an early in the year correction of a serious kind but that won’t necessarily mean the end of this run. It could just be the prelude to another leg. Their credibility (if you believe in it) is entirely dependent on pulling this illusion off in the end. If we implode from here they will not have had enough time between the bubbles to have restored their credibility. The indices and the media prostitutes are the only things that have kept the would-be dictator from really being thrust into the fire, very similar to Clintoon in those respects. They jeopardize their entire corrupt and illegal cartel if they fail this navigational test. This combined with the pent up desire to purchase (languishing for 5 years, must seem like an eternity to live-for-consumption Amerikans) are what allows me to entertain the notion that another huge leg is possible. It’s almost like the rarity of waking up from a very long duration while in a coma. It doesn’t happen often but TPTB, if they wish to keep the current construct, NEED it to keep going longer otherwise it’s OVER on many levels/many ways.

        Finally, as for Vlad’s comments regarding my comments, I didn’t realize that I came off as so angry. I suppose I am but thought that I wrote more out of disgust. The truth is that I am angry because I am frustrated. There is really no permanent solution for an individual that does not want to be party to the madness. The corruption, the evil, has permeated nearly everything at this point. This would be a wonderful planet if not for the people! But really its a minority of evil psychopaths that literally dupe and manipulate billions of people. See Paul Craig Roberts regarding the futility in trying to awake the masses and see many of us here regarding the futility in realizing that it’s near impossible to go it alone within their jurisdictions.

      • VLAD'S BACK December 24, 2013, 4:25 am

        redwill d. hunting,

        NEVER apologize for being angry.
        FOR THERE IS A TIME TO BE ANGRY,
        and a time, to be not. AND THIS IS, A TIME TO BE SO.

        and most of your ussa brethren, don’t have the guts to express it, OUTLOUD, as you do.
        and to research it, and even question your self, and even debate, with bought-fool gary.

        In my opinion, you are the most important member of this site, for your ANGER.
        your ANGER, for being born in a nation that lied to you, since birth, about TRUTH.

        washington was supposed to have told his da about the chopped cherry tree, right?
        and honest abe walked many miles, to return a few copper pennies? BULLSHHTT.

        your nation is built upon lie upon lie. and finally the bill, is coming due. real soon.
        and you just happen to be in the front line of few, SCREAMING THIS OUT.
        why? not just because you got the guts, but because, it is the meaning of your life.

        do not forget that. for life is short. and all there is, is personal meaning.

        however, I am a pragmatic.
        ‘…so, if can’t be, with the one you love, love the one you’re with..’ as the song said ha.

        all I am saying is to never apologize, to anyone, for your choices. whatever they are.
        my recommendation.
        because, you’ll have to live with them anyway, whether you apologized,or not.

        SO, DAMN THE TORPEDOES!!!
        BE ANGRY AS HELL, YOU AIN’T GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!

        until it does not suit you any more, to be so. for as willy said, be true to just you.