Wall Street, Too, a Sap for ‘Hope and Change’

[So much for going out on a limb.  Shortly before 1 a.m. Eastern, the rally in index futures has reversed and the market is now flat.  It’s possible this reflects a similar flattening of expectations arising from the election.  Although the Republicans made spectacular gains in the House, their failure to capture the Senate is likely to impose gridlock on Capitol Hill for the remainder of Mr. Obama’s term.  While this is arguably cause for true celebration, it seems unlikely to generate the burst of exuberance on Wall Street that we had expected in predicting a 175-point rally. RA]

The polls don’t close for another three hours, but we’ll go out on a limb with a prediction that the Dow will rally at least 175 points when stocks open on Wednesday morning. The exuberant reaction will be a variation on Barack Obama’s Hope and Change-inspired landslide in the 2008 election. Now as then, revelers will be so worked up about the very prospect of change, any kind of change, that they won’t much care about the details.  But they’ll care about them soon enough, and that’s why we’re also predicting a Thursday morning hangover; for at the end of the day, it takes just as many Republicans and Tea Partiers to screw in a light bulb as it does Democrats.

Could he be swayed by Obamacare?

Mind you, even though there isn’t ultimately much difference between the two major parties as far as how they govern, there are differences enough that we’ll be rooting, sight unseen, for anybody-but-the-Democrat in virtually all Congressional races.  Running as a Socialist Worker? No Problem-o.  Symbionese Liberation Army?  You can count on my vote. La Raza? Where can I find your name on the ballot?  Tupamaros? Sure, but please don’t forget me when the repeal of Obamacare comes up for a vote.

Conserving Stupidity

Considering the stakes, traders showed relative restraint on Wall Street yesterday, presumably because they didn’t want to deplete their reserve of stupidity before the election results are out.  They needn’t have worried, however, since no human trait save greed is in more abundant supply on the Street than stupidity. Assuming stocks rally sharply, the pundits will seize on this as implying that the mood of America had changed. When the rally sputters out shortly thereafter and reverses with a vengeance, however, the talking heads probably won’t know what to say, so we’ll say it for them:  The Republican landslide is not going to change much of anything, particularly the irresistible strength of a credit deflation that has gripped the economy like a noose.  To those who believe that a Republican majority, even in both Houses, can turn the economy around, we say, Wake us when we can sell our home for its appraisal value.

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  • Steve November 3, 2010, 8:34 pm

    Estoppel. Throw a 2 x 4 in the grinder if that is possible. STOP is good. Want the republicrats to really get punished in 2012. Go the way they have under Bush, and the old republicrate’ like McCain, and refuse to really change. Current progressive thought is the problem. Will it get cured, or will d.c. cure what the Tea People went to do? What do you think will happen when no one knows the difference between the current democracy practices by Independant, Democrat, and Republican? Truely, if the People would just practice Republican Principles in the jury the legislature will change. One state kicked out 3 of their supreme court. What is wrong with the rest of you?

  • Fallingman November 3, 2010, 7:39 pm

    Fair enough.

    And even if many don’t put their principles on hold, they aren’t powerful enough to matter.

    • ben November 3, 2010, 8:15 pm

      That would be really interesting to watch…Democrats and establishment Republicans joining forces and elbowing out the upstart Tea Partiers. Theres no way I see for the established Republicans to get anything done without the Democrats since Obama’s seal of approval is required for everything. The Tea Partiers will probably find themselves either joining the Republican mainstream, or find themselves becoming quickly marginalized. I don’t see how any change of course is even possible until after the next Presidential election. All the zeal around this midterm election will have to be pushed off until 2012.

  • gary leibowitz November 3, 2010, 7:27 pm

    Where is the argument about social security? In the early days of it being passed a majority of Americans were against it. Today I don’t think anyone can afford to see it go, even as we can’t afford to maintain it. Medicare? I personally don’t know any person over the age of 60 that is against this either.

    We seem to want a lot from this government even as we rail against the over spending. As for Obamacare the argument is not more health care to more people, the argument is cost. Without the “option” part it is useless.

    I find it strange that the tea party’s number one concern (over 75%) is spending and only 19% is on jobs. When these same people lose their jobs I wonder if spending controls will be a main concern.

    This debate proves one thing. We are no where near the dispair as seen in the 30’s. If/when that happens I can gauarntee you the concerns will shift to a more personal nature, namely one of survival. Until then let the blogs have their day.

    • Steve November 3, 2010, 8:25 pm

      Gary,

      When one is given only one choice by an abusive police power it comes down to this; Die, or do. Looks like federal forced loans is the problem, jobs will come when we quit practicing mobocracy.

  • fallingman November 3, 2010, 6:26 pm

    Republicans putting a halt to spending. That’s a good one Ben.

    And who would be performing this miracle? A bunch of politically innocent freshmen congresspeople? Look at who the key committee chairmen are and you’ll rest easier.

    SAYING you want to cut spending is one thing. Actually derailing the gravy train is another altogether. Where exactly would spending be cut? Overseas wars? Nope. Unemployment benefits? Nope. Farm subsidies? Nope. Bush’s Medicare Part D? Nope. Infrastructure projects? Nope. Departments of Education and Energy? Nope.

    Funding for NPR? God, let’s hope so, but probably not even that.

    • ben November 3, 2010, 7:08 pm

      I thought by modifying my comment about Republican spending with an “if” I was being sufficiently clear that I was talking about perceptions…reality is a different story. The people voting for these Republicans are often heard complaining about reckless government spending. So, the perception might be, for a few months at least, that voting these guys into office will put a crimp on spending. And this perception should be cause to drive up the dollar and drive down markets of all varieties.

      There is of course no real solution to the deficit and federal liabilities and if the Republicans did something material to curb spending, the stock market drop would be so fast and furious…they would be begging Bernanke to save them with a triple shot of inflation within hours. Remember when Congress at first balked at the bank bailout…the DOW dropped, what, about 1000 points within a day? The sudden about face they did surely gave them whiplash. We are likely to again go through those kind of times when fears of budget cuts drive things down. But Tea Party or no, these freshmen Congressmen will eventually put their principles on the backburner if they fear a revolution…or even a second Great Depression.

  • ben November 3, 2010, 5:24 pm

    If the market had any rationality, it would look at the Republican gains as a big negative for the stock market and commodities. The past two years under Obama and the Dems, with their reckless inflationary spending, saw my precious metal holdings and stock holdings all shoot through the roof. If the Republicans put a halt to all the spending…who will this help exactly? Our Chinese and Japanese creditors with their trillions in Treasuries? The rare person with a mattress stuffed with $100 dollar bills, or imbecile holding 1% yielding 5-year fed bonds? The average person on this board, who probably owns a good portion of his wealth in gold, silver, or stocks, is most likely going to see those holdings decline if the government puts a halt to the spending. Ron Paul…with his chronic lamenting about printing dollars…is actually (maybe unwittingly) the biggest advocate for China and our foreign creditors. Eveyone wanted the Republicans to win…and now they may condignly get what they wished for.

    • Steve November 3, 2010, 6:37 pm

      Ben,

      Why do you believe anything is really going to change with the republicans ? I’m saying REALLY CHANGE?

      What comes, comes. One believes hyperinflation, another believes deflationary forces. What comes comes no matter what I want to believe. Mobocracy ends this way, and that way. Republics usually, should we say always fall to mobocracy. Mobocracy fertilizes the ground for a Republic.

  • fallingman November 3, 2010, 4:24 pm

    Neither country has a health care system.

    We have disease care systems and they don’t care for disease very well. Acute illness and injury…sure, the system does a good to great job with those. Chronic illness, where the major costs are…forget about it. Utter failure. And no amount of cost shifting and political game-playing is gonna change that. The population is sick and getting sicker with “the diseases of civilization” and it’s gonna bankrupt us all.

    Health doesn’t come from a pill bottle or a hypodermic needle. So, debate disease care cost-shifting all you want, but don’t call it a “health care” debate.

    The failings of modern medicine itself should be the primary focus of our scrutiny…not the payment mechanisms.

  • Rich November 3, 2010, 4:13 pm

    Aloha All on Fed Day
    It appears once again the markets correctly discounted the elections and QEII, front ran both if you will.
    I find myself thoroughly agreeing with Rick’s idea of a Thursday Downward Thrust and wrote as much on JP re the Divided House.
    FAZ and UNG looking ready to romp above 7 and 5.
    There is no way politicians or PhDs can rein in debt default deflation and government created shortages, contrary as they may seem…
    Aloha Regards*Rich

  • Dean November 3, 2010, 4:07 pm

    I’m a Canadian with parents that are US citizens living in Arizona. Twenty one years ago my son was born with a brain disorder. He was uninsurable in the US so we made our home here. I’ve been immersed in the Canadian health care system. Our lives and my son’s life would have been a disaster without insurance.

  • rico November 3, 2010, 3:27 pm

    I have a novel proposal to reform the election system here in the land of the “free”. It will provide virtually the same quality of government that we are accustomed to, will spare us the nauseating onslaught of political advertising we endure every election cycle AND best of all will put a chunk of money in every citizens pocket.
    Let’s have the filthy rich (who control our politicians anyway) bid at auction for the seats of their favorite politicians with the highest bidder winning the seat. The proceeds of this auction would be equally divided among every citizen of voting age.
    It could work and has as much chance of happening as the only other likely workable solution to the cesspool our political process has become, term limits.

    • Bradley November 3, 2010, 4:27 pm

      rico, I like the current system better. Filthy rich citizens spend fortunes and then DON’T win the seat, e.g. Whitman in CA. If we could only convince a few dozen other filthy rich citizens to do the same, we’d increase the velocity of money quite a bit…

    • Steve November 3, 2010, 6:31 pm

      Why don’t ya all become constitutional Electors in a Republic instead of military voter advisers to you lord master in mobocracy the commander in chief under the Reconstruction Acts of 1867 the new feudal paradigm in fee?

      WHINE !

  • Steve November 3, 2010, 7:28 am

    Yup! Just read an article about Canadian Healthcare last week (near the Oil Patch where there is lots of money) Best case wait for a new knee – 1 year. Know a couple of men from up North. Both come to the U.S. for treatment when they need it because they can.

    Drug companies are corrupt. Hospitals are corrupt. Doctors are corrupt. Insurance companies are corrupt. Corporate enfranchisees are corrupt. The Federal Government is corrupt. State government is corrupt. Corporations are corrupt. And, joe keeps voting for beer.

    Want to be an outsider? Be moral, do right, play by the rules, commit no fraud, practice the Republican Form, use fair weights and measures, use specie Money in Free Choice, elect honest men and women.

    • Benjamin November 3, 2010, 8:30 am

      “Corporations are corrupt.”

      I was just going to say, while reading that.

      “And, joe keeps voting for beer.”

      Now wait a minute… Are you saying that roughly 22 24 packs of Coors wouldn’t better serve as our Congress than the one we have now? 🙂

    • Tony November 3, 2010, 3:18 pm

      As a Canadian living in the U.S. for the past 17 years, I can tell you first hand that the statistics being propogated on healthcare quality are very misleading. “Quality” of healthcare is measured by its universal accessibility. The fact that every Canadian has access to the exact same level of healthcare means that Canada’s healthcare will be rated higher than the US. It doesn’t mean it is better. I have several friends and relatives in Canada who are waiting for non-emergency healthcare service. That doesn’t mean they are not in pain, just not about to die from the illness/injury. E.g., it can take months to get an MRI.
      The fact that you cannot sue a Canadian doctor means that there is no incentive for them to give a second opinion. Which means, once your family doctor refers you to a specialist, several weeks later when you get to see that specialist, whatever he/she says is the final word – no second opinion, take it or leave it. Again – another reason why so many Canadians cross the border to seek healthcare.
      The problem with the US system is cost and some abuses by the insurance companies. Maybe the US can find a way to streamline the administrative monster that sits atop of its healthcare system, maybe that will lead to more affordability. But to move toward the Canadian system is a HUGE mistake.

    • Steve November 3, 2010, 6:28 pm

      Ben, YOU RIGHT !

      As to healthcare. I didn’t have any in 1971 when my son was born. Went to the doctor and made payments for 9 months. Went to the Mercy Hospital and arranged to pay for another 9 months. Made 5 bucks an hour.

      What is different?

      Doctors did not protect ‘brothers’ that should not have been practicing [need malpractice insurance]

      The Federal Government was not involved.

      Need for me to say more ?

  • Benjamin November 3, 2010, 5:53 am

    Even if the republicants somehow manage to reverse Obamacare, we’ll only be back where we were a couple years ago… except worse.

  • JohnJay November 3, 2010, 2:36 am

    I am sure that any newly elected Senator or Congressman will be bought off by the lobbyist loot before they are even officialy sworn in at noon on January 3rd.
    The bribes are most likely on an Excel Spread Sheet by State, they just need to plug in the new names tonight.
    The Dow looks like it is close a double top at around 11206 from last April on a weekly YM chart.
    My guess is it breaks out above that, the uptrend looks strong, but as they say, markets will fluctuate.

  • F. Beard November 3, 2010, 2:26 am

    Considering the stakes, traders showed relative restraint on Wall Street yesterday, presumably because they didn’t want to deplete their reserve of stupidity before the election results are out. They needn’t have worried, however, since no human trait save greed is in more abundant supply on the Street than stupidity RA

    Common stock would be my favorite private money form if we had genuine capitalism so I find it hard to fault anyone who buys it in a sound company.

    To those who believe that a Republican majority, even in both Houses, can turn the economy around, we say, Wake us when we can sell our home for its appraisal value. RA

    Yep. Speaking of appraisal value, one should be able to say to the appraiser “Sold! Let’s go draw up the papers.”

  • Martin Snell November 3, 2010, 2:03 am

    You are right. Nothing will change, because it was too far gone as soon as Bush won term 2 (the day I piled full on into gold).

    I like your timing thoughts. I have noticed the last few Fed meetings that whatever way the market moves on the Wednesday, it reverses hard on the Thursday. The question is when will the traders and humans show up and stop the moronic computers from running things.

    As for Obamacare … you should visit Canada. We have a much better system (single payer) that has overwhelming support amongst the population. The efficiencies in single payer (no insurance companies/profits/overheads etc) blow Obamacare out of the water. Canadians pay a lot less for health care and they live longer too. Surely someone who deals with the facts must acknowledge the truth.

    • Jill November 3, 2010, 3:14 am

      I don’t understand. How would it help Special Interest Groups in th U.S. to do that? Special Interests are what our government is based on in the U.S. The best interests of the citizens are not considered for a millisecond. And we citizens always put up with this, rather than searching for people to run for office who will pledge to institute campaign finance reform, as anyone with a brain would surely do.

    • Benjamin November 3, 2010, 6:00 am

      Martin Snell: “when will the traders and humans show up…”

      Ha! Traders and humans…

      Jill: “I don’t understand. How would it help Special Interest Groups in the U.S. to do that?”

      To do what? Visit Canada, you mean? I can spare them the trip: I never met a Canadian that answered in the affirmative that they had a great healthcare system. And I’ve been around, up there.

    • Jill November 3, 2010, 6:29 am

      Benjamin– The question is, whose health care system is less bad. The U.S. doesn’t have a great healthcare system either. I will look to verify whether Canadians live longer than folks in the U.S. We all know that they pay less for health care than folks in the U.S. (Probably everyone else in the world pays less than folks in the U.S. do.)

    • Benjamin November 3, 2010, 8:25 am

      Jill,

      Oh, no, no, no… It’s not possible for me to defend the U.S. system vs Canada. Just saying what I know Canadians to think of theirs.

      Anyway, yes, the LE in Canada is higher. But… Sweeden has all the other Scandinvian countries beat in LE, and they have similar if not exact healthcare. In fact, irrc, Norway and Finnland vs Sweeden is about on par with the U.S. vs Canada.

      Maybe it’s not healthcare. Note the lack of a question mark. It could be a lower suicide rate. A quick check of gun related death statistics, while it doesn’t confrim, certainly indicates. Of all gun violence commited in the U.S., something like 7.5 is suicides (about equal with homicides, one of the highest in the world). How do you suppose that might stack up vs, say, Scandinavia or Canada? 😉

    • Benjamin November 3, 2010, 8:59 am

      Jill and Martin,

      Sorry for the O/T, Rick and forum, but I’m so fed up with the idea that healthcare policy = longer life, that I just had to say…!

      http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db09.htm

      Forgot to mention infant mortality. Given our diverse mix of races and ethnicity, it’s not surprising that Canada and Sweeden and other developed countries have an edge on LE. Immigration probably plays a role as well.

      Point is, LE between developed nations isn’t a very accurate indicator of health care politics. The best thing we can do is continue with immunizations, clean water (which is suffering, I understand), regulate pollution… public health matters, ie. I would add nutrition for the poor under that regimen, but get government out of our lives, and that should take care of itself.

    • Martin Snell November 3, 2010, 2:30 pm

      Benjamin, with all due respect you don’t know what you are talking about.

      Living in Canada I have yet to meet one Canadian that would give up their health care for a US style system. (I hang out with average Joe’s, not billionaires).

      As for immigration as a factor in L.E., I doubt it. Canada probably has a higher percentage of immigrants than the US (Canada takes in about .65% of its population every year, the US about .3%)

    • Tom Paine November 3, 2010, 4:10 pm

      Thank you Martin. Sure maybe everything would be better if we could go back to that libertarian utopia that existed (not) before there was such a thing as health insurance. Right.

      As it stands, the problem, as I see it, with Obamacare is not that it is too socialist but that it is some half-arsed overly complex mish mash of government heavy handness (mandated insurance) and giving the health care corporations just about everything they want, like continued legal collusion by insurers, and much more, I am sure.

      In Taiwan, I lived under a single payer system, and I payed very little, probably too little. At the same time, I had absolute freedom in terms of what doctors I wanted to see, etc. I am not sure what kind of contstraints doctors were under in terms of treatments, testing, etc., but I don’t believe there was any kind of draconian rationing of care.

      I actually hope Obamacare is repealed, but not because it is too socialist. That is pure corporate propoganda and hogwash.

    • Larry D November 3, 2010, 4:14 pm

      L.E. is higher…even in Newfoundland?

      On a trip through Canada a few years ago, a top story on CBC was a medical crisis on Newfoundland…the doctors there were set to go out on strike.

      Evidently the doctors on the island were paid less than in other provinces, and they voted to walk out, leaving the island’s health care in a bit of a spot. I never heard…how did it play out?

    • buck novak November 3, 2010, 6:17 pm

      Yes, you have national healthcare but you also have all those high taxes. How many Canadians come south to shop on the border states?

    • dlweld November 3, 2010, 7:01 pm

      As a Canadian who follows Rick here, I’ve got to say I think the Canadian system is great – if you’re sick you just go to the Dr. – no concern re paying – it’s taken care of. We all pitch in with a small insurance fee – I think mine is $30 a month or so – it’s not a factor really. We hear some negative propaganda from some of the vested interests in the States, but from someone on the ground here – it works great. When we take a trip to the States it’s always a big concern about getting sick down there and we always take out extra insurance for the duration of the trip.

      I think all this comes from bypassing all the hangers-on that apparently have latched onto the US healthcare cash cow. The main wins are no bloated health insurance companies (all with CEOS, profits and, duplicate bureaucracies), no bloated medical companies (CEOS, profits and, duplicate bureaucracies), and no contingent of high priced lawyers suing everyone in sight – get all these expensive inefficiencies out of the system and good health care turns out to be affordable.

    • Larry D November 3, 2010, 7:25 pm

      Of course, negative propaganda only works when there is some element of truth in it. Ask Michael Moore.

      Eyebrows were raised when the Quebec Premier (Charest?) came south for some medical procedure. Time was of the essence, apparently.

    • Benjamin November 3, 2010, 9:07 pm

      Martin Snell,

      Uh, no… I know full well what I speak of.

      The history as well as the racial/ethnic matters more than any current/recent statistic; infant mortality is the most relevant factor, for obvious reasons; the factor of suicide, while actually slightly higher in Canada, depends on age as well as % of overall mortality; violent crime rate also matters.

      LE as an indicator of policy success is like using a pointy stick to locate the north pole. As for the sources of my anecdotal assesment of Canada’s system as a whole, well, maybe you’re right… Truck drivers, after all, are definitely billionaires, and I’m sure the answer to that particular question was just their way of keeping entertained during an otherwise boring trip.

      That said, life, even for a Canadian and a Swede, is too short. And guess what? There’s not a thing government can do about it except…

      Pop quiz time! What’s the biggest LE factor? Right. It’s helping the babies survive. Now, one would think they could be a little more target specific. And indeed, socialized systems cover the infants. That’s where the various socialized systems get their results. Unfortunately, the rest is mostly a waste of resource, in as far as boosting LE goes.

    • Frank November 6, 2010, 9:40 pm

      Benjamin,

      “Forgot to mention infant mortality.”
      Don’t forget baby death at the hands of abortionists.

      “The best thing we can do is continue with immunizations”
      We immunize against the mild chickenpox, which causes the current outbreak in shingles. NOT progress.

      “clean water”
      Why put toxic fluoride into our “clean water”.

      “I would add nutrition for the poor”
      Nutrition for everybody could start by reducing corn subsidies which would cause food manufacturers to reduce usage of the liquid evil corn syrup.

      “Pop quiz time! What’s the biggest LE factor? Right. It’s helping the babies survive.”
      Nice to see you understand that killing our babies is a huge problem.

      Thanks for your thoughts.