“The Egyptian people are in the market for some new, and hopefully representative, government.”

Yes, I can more clearly see that now (I admit… I was ranting in my first post).

And what if they have to side with elements that might well make the world a more dangerous place? Well, they could always use that to weaken the hold of those who have it on them, both presently and any government they might have in the future. Divide and conquer works both ways.

By the same token, perhaps we, the U.S. citizens, should consider the opportunity that rising conflict would offer. We can act more effectively and with less domestic violence the more we send troops away to other places (but there will be violence, somewhere, somehow. No escaping that, so we might as well stop hoping for bloodless, for all that there is already tons of blood spilled over the decades).

Insofar as Mubarak and leading members of his regime are concerned, both the US and UK have the ability to bring tremendous influence to bear as substantial amounts of the wealth that the Mubarak clan have been acquired over the years is in England and America.

Just the hint that properties and bank accounts might be sold off, seized and repatriated back to Egypt should be enough to convince Mubarak to back off and cut it short.

The West does have the power to persuade where money is involved. Perhaps Hilary will refresh Hosni’s memory of who the boss really is when she makes her next phone call.

FranSix,

Thanks for the reply. I did read the wiki but threats of cutting off funding were not even mentioned at all, which is consistent with the fact that people pressed in order to get what they sought. I even broke down into doing word searches to see if I would come across something I might’ve missed. Nadda. But I do think you’re reading between the lines correctly, if only, imv, you have it backwards. If you’ll bear with me here…

When the U.S. cheers both sides, we’re hedging our bets. On the one hand, we don’t want to be seen as siding against angry, oppressed people. On the other hand, should the dictator even look like they’re starting to gain control again, we don’t want to be seen as having been against them. Wish-washy. Nothing new, there. It applies to both sides, too. Now, supposing a shift in how the military/police act can be brought about as the result of a better offer, of different terms, than the deal they have?

And that’s what I’m saying. Tunisia is Tunisia, and really, why give a hoot about how things turned out there? Might as well let them have their “freedom”, though, as, after all, the immolated young man was there in that country. It sounds very familiar, to me, given my place of residence over the years. Read this…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dantrell_Davis

There is much I can say about that, and those times. But for the sake of brevity, indeed, only one child was ever killed there as the result of gang activity. It had a profound impact, not the least because that was the deal. The gangs there did what they did because they were promised it would only be temporary. Gist is, collect money and launder it to other parts of the world where dictators and thier ilk needed satisfaction and/or to supress/relieve high inflationary urges. For that terrorism and support of the system, they and the oppressed would later be rewarded with losening credit.

I knew a family that had lived there, with the oldest son having been a memeber of one of the gangs (as well as Desert Storm veteran, of which the gangs had and continue to have a high presence in and recruitment from the U.S. military). The timing of their relocation was no random thing. And that they unknowingly moved out of one area that had vastly cooled down, and into an area heating up, was also no coincidence.

The short and simple is that there is relief afterwords, for some. But there is not enough for everyone. Now, Tunisia had an immolation take place. People, while they’ll put up with all manner of general evil, don’t tend to overlook dramatic things like that. Egypt did not have that take place in their yard.

Of course, this determines nothing for certain, but I have a hunch that, in time, I will be proven correct. The military, police, government… It matters not. It won’t hold, not unless there is major change in the West, which will make the now seem like a bonanza of opportunity. And because it would be so extreme, there’s really no saying that the shift will even occur. It’s all still up in the air, yes, but we musn’t forget that people here want to be re-elected, even if it means having to personally lose for their support of more dictatorship elsewhere. Their party matters more, and glaring smudges like supporting more tyranny in Egypt is nothing they can’t buff down to a duller, smaller stain.

“The military is out of business if it quells the revolution with the use of force, but the same might actually be true for the police, who are probably forcing themselves into obsolescence with the use of violence.”

Going by the foreground of the picture today (an all too familiar one that I’m sure we all know), I don’t see any reason why their military would hesitate in crushing them if given the order to or, god forbid, they just get the ambition to take control of everything.

Who would put them out of business for that? Who among the protesters can even begin to make a dent? Who in the corrupt world community would do such a thing, when the world community only wants this to quiet down ASAP?

On a side note, I’ve long wondered why they always chuck rocks by hand, when they have shirts that can be used to make slings. Slings are fairly powerful weapons. Unfortunately, I’ve learned that modern body armor is too enduring for those kinds of attacks to work, even is en masse. Might get some bad bruises or, if a shot is lucky, some internal bleeding. So without some kind of arms, they don’t stand any chance at all.

its a great point!…greedy to the point of stupid or what? And its not that difficult to put together the remnants of a fabulous PR campaign…

Thank you to all who have responded to this short article.

If no one objects, I will place my comments at the top of the page instead of at the end where they would normally be found.

After reading all the comment I debated whether or not I would add to my own sharp commentary of Mr Mubarak and the inequities that I see taking place at this time. It would be unfair though to not express my personal fondness for the country of Egypt and its people while simultaneously offering something of an olive branch to a leader who has maintained peace in the Middle East for so many years now.

I do want to say first that I am very optimistic over the long term about the ability of Egyptians to confront the unknown future and to heal while continuing in their leading role in Middle eastern affairs and influence. Many are concerned of course that with the departure of Mr Mubarak that fundamentalist idealism and extreme politics will arise. I disagree.

After having lived in the Mid-East and North Africa for an extended period of time I have come to see that region not as a hotbed of extreme thinking but as a region that seeks to emulate and participate in the many benefits and opportunities that the West enjoys.

Indeed, Egypt is an open country. The people are accepting of ideas from outside their borders and I can say without hesitation that it is at once cosmopolitan, hopeful, open minded and energetic. We need to keep the demographic in mind here too. This is a youthful country that seeks to prosper and grow, engage technology and world markets, improve its living standards, participate in the tremendous gains that have been taking place in nearby India and China while not being chained by religious orders and the madness of ideals from past centuries. I do believe that the citizens of Egypt and particularly the youth of the country now seek to break from the bonds of the past, not embrace the zeal that has taken hold in neighbouring countries.

Some will argue that point with me. I can only say “wait and see” how the elections will turn out. We do know this; the Egypt of today is a far different country than the one we knew just a few weeks ago and the people are emboldened to stand up and stand out against all repressive forms of governance including those that may attempt to impose themselves on the country during a leadership vacuum.

The current uprising has been one that has been building for many years now. Of Its many sources of conflict the one that stands out most is an overarching oppression of open dialogue and the freedom to publicly debate the many issues that every nation naturally confronts on a daily basis. This is anathema to any society attempting to grapple with rapid social, economic and political change as is now occurring all around the world. Egypt needs to work to remain open in order to compete and succeed on the world stage.

Egypt (and by definition, Egyptians) need a stronger voice in the day to day affairs of their country as they respond to changing developments all around them. One man cannot be the source of all ideas nor the inspiration for the energy required to take advantage of the many opportunities that are now arising, particularly in other parts of Africa at this time.

The country of Egypt has been damaged by the recent events. I do not believe that the hurt is a mortal blow though and it is easy to imagine that as the country searches for new leaders, new ideas and another compass that it will rebuild quickly from the angry events of the past two weeks.

I applaud the strong stance that the US Administration and other governments have taken in the last hours to regain a semblance of civility and balance as they have encouraged Mr Mubarak to step aside and allow history to take its course. They have correctly assessed that an essential cooling off period over the next eight months before the next elections cannot proceed smoothly with Mr Mubarak at the helm. Public sentiment will not allow it. His imminent departure is therefore a foregone conclusion.

All that really remains to be discussed in private is how that transition takes place to ensure Egypt’s critical business and banking interests are not unduly impacted and how the president himself can be assured that his families safety and their business interests can be shielded from future repercussions as a new crop of lawmakers arrive on the scene. Cooperation is now sought, not the politics of revenge.

The past is the past and in order to see success in the future we must sometimes overlook the failures of the previous administrations before moving on. Nelson Mandela taught us this lesson well as his government orchestrated a South African revival and an economic renaissance that did not focus on revenge and hatred but rather on a forward looking process that included forgiveness of many of the sins of the past. How else do you move on without becoming an oppressor yourself?

The people of Egypt have spoken clearly and it is no longer possible to turn back the clock as they work towards their own chosen (and unknown) destiny. Reform is essential at this juncture and it is being imposed on all the observers of this crisis exactly as it is being imposed on the population in revolt against what they view widely as unfairness in their day to day affairs. Voices are finally being heard that were silent for decades. We need to listen more carefully and not prejudge outcomes that have not materialized and that are only estimates and fictions in our own minds. The future is not written yet.

Is the Chinese model superior in this regard? What lacks in Egypt insofar as equity in business and opportunity for the millions of its citizens, seems to bloom unimpeded in most of Asia. China in particular has shown that when resources and opportunity are shared and the entrepreneurialism of its people in concert with progressive public policy is allowed to flourish, that these approaches can have a long lasting and positive effect. China is no democracy. Its policies are nonetheless nurturing to the business community and the wide participation of the population in their miracle has made their economy the envy of the world.

There is a firm hand on the tiller over there but it is not one that seeks to deprive honest effort while accumulating all the gains just for a handful of those in the party of command. This I believe is central to the discord in Egypt at this time. The outlet for business to flourish has been co-opted by just a few individuals at the helm of a government that is not transparent in its dealings with its citizens nor fair in offering concessions to those who seek better economic opportunities.

Mr Mubarak’s departure may be the end of an era but we cannot be fearful of the choices that Egyptians now make. If free elections are to be held it is certain that some of the more extreme ideas of the opposition will become muted. The people there are not, after all, seeking a more repressive regime than the one they are throwing over. To win in a democratic process, parties must offer the best basket of ideas if they expect to win the hearts and minds of the people. A much more emboldened people I might add.

The benefit of Mubarak’s departure at this time is that it will allow the government to begin to introduce the changes that are being demanded without his influence at the lead and to establish a reputation for itself as part of the process of healing and not as an outside force, nor one that remains in opposition to popular consent.

It will be important that the natural right of women to vote be established quickly, that constitutional amendments are made regarding the influence and control of the military, that free speech be enshrined, that monopolies be broken up to allow entrepreneurs entry into key markets, that emergency rule be discarded and most importantly that rights of citizens are protected from future intruders who might attempt to impose extremist ideas against the broad will of the population.

In the last hours, the hand of the US and other Western allies of Egypt has been forced by the refusal of Mr Mubarak to step down in the face of overwhelming public opposition to his three decades long rule. I believe that his departure will be announced in short order. That will be a turning point and that is when the real work will begin. The country will need to heal from the wounds of this revolution but as life returns to normal again, banks reopen and tourism once again flourishes, the solutions to past conflicts will be found by all parties in this evolving process. Hard work of course but well worth the troubles. I wish them all the best as the political process evolves.

Introducing true electoral processes and reforms on a country that has never really known them honestly will not be easy though. It will be incumbent on both the government in power and on the opposition parties who now seek the publics votes and support to begin formulating the policies together that will lead this country to a better outcome than might have been imagined just a few short days ago.

The Egypt that I have known was civil, honourable and proud country. As the nation seeks to address past inequity we may not like all that we hear and see. The debates will be loud and raucous, rife with recrimination and blame as the contenders attempt debate and sort out the messy process of cooperation and multi-party politics. Everything in other words that we would expect in any other democratic country. We should not expect more of them than we expect of ourselves. Are we not bellicose and obnoxious too in our houses of parliament?

As a new period of change arises we can acknowledge that it is at times like these that much imperfection will be seen. Out of the chorus of discordant voices though I believe will arise a stronger more focussed country and one that will retain its respected place on the world stage.

We all have deep concerns for the future but now is a time to stand aside and offer encouragement and advice only when invited and asked while avoiding the divisive politics and policies of the past. Everyone now has a stake in the success of Egypt and her people as the country moves towards a more open and democratic process.

This is a time to express confidence in the people of Egypt. I have complete faith in the choices they will now make as the future unfolds.